Getting an 11 month old dog - advice please

[Lessworknow]

During our family search for a dog ,we came across an 11 month old cavapoo that has been extensively health checked.

We found him at a home breeders when considering a pup .

He was going to be a stud dog but now she does not need him as she has a pure breed - and this is why we know he is extensively checked and in good health

Breeder issues aside please….

This pup lives with multiple dogs and appears v gentle and chilled .
He has never been on walks but lives in a multi dog house hold and plays in a large garden

The owner took him for his first walk the day before we met him - with another dog and he was hesitant but coped well.

The next day , we went to meet him and walked him near a road . I sat on the floor with him on the grass verge and chatted to him and stroked him as if it was a non issue- again he was fine

When we returned to her home, he sat next to me and put his paw on my leg .

We have decided to bring him home - but are mindful that he has not seen children, been to public places.etc.

Bearing in mind he has missed his early socialisation window, please can we have your practical suggestions to help him transition to our home ?

Am aware he has never been without other dogs- is this a thing to be aware of ? And what can we do specifically to help him settle ?

My ideas in include-
.sleeping near him.
.quiet time at home initially .
some gentle visitors .
. walks near the home - same ones for familiarity .
.introduction to friends dog oriented dog - walks with her for confidence.

I need to introduce him to cafe s and pubs as that is very much part of our family lifestyle.I presume that the idea is to introduce slowly- but if he is anxious- what is the best way to react - treats and reassure or exit .. advice on this and general matter’s would be much appreciated.

Lots of dogs do working jobs, that doesn't mean the breed (in general) is a working breed.

Absolutely tons. Although given they are often crossed with a cocker spaniel, it’s hard to say which half of the family to blame!
I know some bloody lovely poodles. But all of them are very intelligent and thrive on ‘work’ even if that’s tricks etc. I personally haven’t met a poodle yet who I think would be content to be a ‘quiet,calm lap dog’ with no additional input - hence my misgivings for the OP. The ones I know would be happy with moderate walking but only with the mental stimulation that proper, regular training brings on top

Except the breed (in general) is a working breed. The fact that everyone has got hold of them and bred them with everything that moves to make doodles doesn’t change that.

Champdogs even has a working poodle section to find breeders with puppies from working lines.

What is your definition of a working breed if it’s not being historically bred to do a job and still being used to do that job?

Collies are a working breed, yet most collies in the U.K. are in pet homes. That doesn’t mean they are not a working breed anymore!

They are so misunderstood and people don’t look past the ‘fancy’ haircut.

If my poodle is calm and quiet I wonder what trouble she’s getting herself into! And if I skip her training for even a single day she comes and pesters me until I give in. She’s amazing but her drive is unreal!

Like I said, I'm not debating with you about it. We're not going to agree so there's no point going on and on about it.

You carry on if you want though!

Shame you can't adopt her!

the other puppy probably isn't a sensible choice, which is why I wouldn't have gone to meet him!! Having met him I'd definitely take him or I'd spend forever worrying about what happened to him & I'd want to give him a good life. But if you can walk away that's probably the most sensible decision (for you).

if you carry on looking, then maybe stay with proper rescues & hopefully you'll find a suitable dog who needs your patience & love after having had to be given up by previous owners (either into care homes, dying, having to move into accommodation they can't take their dog. Rather then one relinquished because they can't cope with it).

Ok slightly different circumstances but I’ll tell you experience.
My current dog is a very Vulnerable Native Breed. I got him at 10 months old he’s a failed show dog. His highly regraded breeder (within the breed) kept him and his brother with a view to standing one or other at stud if either were “good enough”. Apparently you can’t tell from puppies. He very good (he won classes as a youngster and could win lower level classes) but just not good enough to win at the very highest level apparently they have to be as near to perfect as possible and therefore his breeder couldn’t stand him as stud.
He has always lived with other dogs, he arrived house trained, he fantastic on the leash and very well socialised I believe show dogs have to be, he happily travels in a car and is very savvy, non confrontational around other dogs and is very confident and charismatic again I’m told this is important for show. But although he had been walked the breeder lived in a quiet location so I doubt he’d seen much traffic. I live in a very rural location but we have farm traffic, I live by the sea the owner was very much lived in land again I doubt he’d ever seen water, he’d never run off lead in wet boggy field scrambled over rocks and had never been through a kissing gate but many urban dogs wouldn’t have been. I doubt he’d ever been on public transport (not a problem because I don’t have public’s transport here) or into a cafe.When I first got him he freaked out at a kissing gate, he just didn’t understand what water is, he got to the edge of a rock pool and carried on walking and he just fell in, he also doesn’t seem to know how to swim! He repeated the same thing three of four times before he realised what water was. He’s not a candidate for dog Mensa.
That was 3 years ago, he happily scrambles over rocks etc, loves running in boggy fields and avoids water 🤣, he’s a bit odd round tractors etc but nothing too serious, he happily sits very quietly in cafe and even went shopping and on public transport a few weeks ago for the first time in his life and wasn’t phased, he very much prefers to duck under kissing gate which isn’t always possible rather than go round them and I have to go behind him but basically he’s a happy well adjusted dog with the odd quirk but aren’t all dogs?
When I got him I had another dog now he’s on his own, he loves to meet other dogs but I don’t think he’s overly bothered about being in his own.
He had been well socialised for what his breeder wanted and within his living circumstances but mine are slightly different he’s accepted lots new things partly I believe because he had been well socialised but also partly because I dont make a fuss about things and he takes his lead from me. I had no issues in the “teenage” years because until I came in here I didn’t known this was a thing and I’ve owned dogs all my life (am now retired).
I never wanted a puppy I know they are hard work and I wanted a dog that could walk out with my other dog from day 1. His breeder vetted me very carefully took a reference and he met up with my other dog to check he was well looked after and that they got on before the breeder agreed to sell him to me but likes your breeder I could return him if it didnt work out. But I’ve always owned pedigree dogs from reputable breeders and as a you said up thread this is a normal policy for decent breeders.
I can’t say if this dog is right for you but I would say do your homework on your breeder carefully. My dogs breeder has written books on the breed, he’s a top judge and totally dedicated to the breed he’s been breeding the breed for 40+ years and knows what he’s doing how to breed an excellent example, I’m pretty sure that why my dog is a good as he is.

The dogs welfare obviously isn't a huge concern for its current owner. OP sound preferable.

OP being better than the current owner doesn't make her a good option, though.

Full disclosure @Lessworknow i have not read the full thread and do not have the same breed but we have an almost 11 month puppy. What I will say is he has SUCH a personality, I obviously can’t say if we know him fully or it’s still developing but I feel we know him well, as in, I think this age is good at expressing their personality.

My limited experience would tell me that dogs are very similar to children, they are more adaptable than you think. Our pup ended up in an emergency situation and had to stay overnight at 2 different vets… the thing that scares him now isn’t where he stays but the car as he seems to associate the car with going somewhere unpleasant, so we’re trying to resolve that with trips to lots of nice places in the car.

Go with your gut, my opinion since getting. puppy is that at 11 months they still have loads to learn and develop and discover what they love, especially a new family

It isn’t possible to test a CKCS for heart defects at 11 months; the whole point is you dont breed from them until they are considerably older and functional (genetic) heart conditions can be done to assess whether they show signs of a defect. There is no single gene to flag these conditions. You need to actually physically test their bodies as they age.

I also wanted to comment on the fact you have had a dog before.

That’s a really good thing, but I’d encourage you to think hard about what has happened in the last 15 years since your previous dog was born.

There has been an enormous increase in the price of puppies as commodities since then. It would have been unheard of back in 2010 to pay the equivalent of £2.5k for a crossbred puppy or in fact, even a well-bred pedigree dog - champions and the elite of the breeding world excepted maybe. Puppy price inflation has brought not only unethical practices but unhealthy dogs. If you have a market for doodle-doos, people will breed them with no regard for temperament or anything else.

You sound like you potentially have a few life challenges outside of dog rearing, and I get this, I really do! I do too.

A puppy is only a puppy for a relatively short period, and they are not always non-sleepers. I NEVER got up with my most recent one between 11pm and 7am. Bigger dog, might make a differnce… I set the clock first couple of nights but it was a waste of time and like raising the dead.

You absolutely can get an intuitive sense of how a dog will fit your life and your situation. I don’t dispute that, but dogs are now so massively expensive and also so time consuming if you do it properly (!) I think you need to be fully prepared.

I just wanted to comment on the post above where someone took on a show dog of a similar age.
The poster is absolutely correct that show dogs are very well trained and socialised, and although it has come from a breeder at a similar age they couldn't be more different from the dog op is considering.
Show dogs, especially if they have gained wins , will have been exposed to many many things that op possible dog will not have.
To be confident enough in a show environment to stand perfectly still while a stranger stares at it from every angle and then inspects it close up, including looking at the teeth and getting hands on all over, takes work. Also it will have had many hours being taught to trot up and down moving straight, unbothered by the hustle and bustle of a dog show. It will have been crate trained and will be comfortable traveling. It will have lived with other dogs but have been confident enough to leave those dogs to do it's job.

None of these are things that op potential dog have been exposed to. Ex show dogs are a great option, 11 month old under socialised, nervous genetic disasters from a back street breeder are absolutely not.
It will take 3 months to see the true personality of a dog in a new environment...this is why rescues that place dogs in foster homes are a good idea.
When a dog is shut down you do not see the real dog. Sometimes the real dog when gaining confidence becomes territorial, resource guards or other undesirable behaviours emerge that could potentially be a risk to kids.
The fact that this breeder is charging £800 is shocking. My fully health tested, DNA clear of inherited diseases, bred from show lines with a proven ability to work cost me £1100.
It's highly unlikely that this young dog came from health tested parents. I know of only one breeder of designer crosses who only uses fully health tested parents....it's very rare, and she still only charges £900 for a puppy which has been raised using puppy culture which involves exposing the puppies to a range of age appropriate things that mean they are very confident with different noises, surfaces and people, making the transition to their forever home a smooth one.
I am not disputing that this dog needs a good home but it shouldn't even be considered unless the dog is free or close to in my opinion.
I've personally taken on 2 dogs at around a year old who were both rejected through no fault of their own. Both have been fantastic dogs but both were used to being in a car and had been walked . One was super confident, the other was confident with dogs but wary of strangers. Both went on to be successful agility dogs. My original passed away aged 13 and a half. My second is here with me now aged 14 .

My 3rd dog was the first I had from a puppy, my first 8 week old blank canvas and came from the breeder I mentioned above. The difference has been incredible. This one has turned into far more than I dreamed of because he's genetically fantastic, and because I didn't have to undo anyone else's mistakes. His focus on me has been created from the day I got him... and doing that from 8 weeks is a million times easier than doing it at a year old.
The confidence and trainability of a well bred puppy makes life so much easier....the things that op potential dog will need to learn outside of the socialization windows are enormous. Do not underestimate these things.
Please stop thinking about cross breeds. There are numerous breeds out there that are really good for the lifestyle you are looking for. Shi tzsu and Tibetan Terrier are 2 breeds that come to mind. When you start mixing breeds it confuses things as you don't know how much influence you will get from each breed and getting the worst of each breed is as likely as getting the traits you want. Also as previously mentioned, they are highly unlikely to come from health tested parents. If breeders health test they are looking out for the future of the breed and are going to look for a fully health tested match, not a different breed entirely.
Do not mistake vet checked for health tested, it's not the same. Please refer to the kennel club website for advised health tests for any breed you consider. Breed club secretaries are a great place to ask for advice on recommendations of breeders, and would know of breeders who are selling adult dogs that have not quite matured to breed standard ie with a show background and as such very well socialised.
Good luck

Ok I take on board what you all say and the huge risks taking on this dog may entail.
Strangley with the adhd - and a lifetime of working with people in trauma , distress and anger( from fear often ) -which was my forte( yes folk with what i have are over represented in things like emergency seevices) - its occured to me why this dog felt ‘ right’ to me .
I am and empathetic with an animal or person that ‘ issues ‘ as its been my profession my adult working life - despite my terrible spelling , my chaotic sentences- my manager told me that she felt that i was the most intelligent in my profession she ahd worked with in 30 years . She gave me all the difficult cases as I was able to see the subtleties , the links to things, wereas ky college s hid from complex multi dimensional work .. preferring a easy cases.
Those of you who perhaps judge my poor written expression do not know that it hides a vast level of life experience in dealing with people at some of the worst times in thier lives and I have had many many thankyou letters and formal
compliments from patients whose life they say I hare changed.
i have written this because I am aware i come across in a non typical way and to say that i do have some ability- there is no way i wd have taken this dog on lightly- a behaviourist was
lined d up ready for week 2.

Ok I take on board what you all say and the huge risks taking on this dog may entail.
Strangley with the adhd - and a lifetime of working with people in trauma , distress and anger( from fear often ) -which was my forte( yes folk with what i have are over represented in things like emergency seevices) - its occured to me why this dog felt ‘ right’ to me .
I am and empathetic with an animal or person that ‘ issues ‘ as its been my profession my adult working life - despite my terrible spelling , my chaotic sentences- my manager told me that she felt that i was the most intelligent in my profession she ahd worked with in 30 years . She gave me all the difficult cases as I was able to see the subtleties , the links to things, wereas ky college s hid from complex multi dimensional work .. preferring a easy cases.
Those of you who perhaps judge my poor written expression do not know that it hides a vast level of life experience in dealing with people at some of the worst times in thier lives and I have had many many thankyou letters and formal
compliments from patients whose life they say I hare changed.
i have written this because I am aware i come across in a non typical way and to say that i do have some ability- there is no way i wd have taken this dog on lightly- a behaviourist was
lined d up ready for week 2.

Hips, elbows and eyes also can’t be tested that young

so I’m not even sure what that leaves as the extensive testing tbh

SummerFrog25

you know you said its a shame you can’t adopt her - ? I agree!
the owner has actually offered for her to come to me x3 a week in term time as the dog really enjoys her days with me - i am v dog centric and i do what she likes to do as if she is happy - i am happy 😄

there is no way i wd have taken this dog on lightly- a behaviourist was
lined d up ready for week 2.

kindly OP, paying £800 for a known behaviour case would have been madness. People aren’t trying to say you lack ability - we are trying to help you by passing on experience

There are no guarantees with behaviour work. And a lot of commitment, hard work and frustration. Plus management, usually for life in some part. None of your posts have suggested that you actively want or have the skill set to cope with a dog with issues. As your previous dog was easy and lovely, you really don’t t know how difficult a situation you would find yourself in.

It’s lovely that you wanted to take this dog on but, as other have said, you’d be mad to pay for the privilege of taking an unwanted dog. You can go to a rescue charity and get a very similar dog for free or a voluntary donation like £50. And you might need to save your money as you will be paying vets bills for neutering and bills for training classes etc. Mine cost me a small fortune in fees for 1:1 training and classes.

Did you miss a 0 off your voluntary contribution?
I paid £400 for my rescue four years ago. And the charity rescue I volunteer for asks for contributions closer to my figure.

They all come from different backgrounds! What made you think rescues are all dogs from unscrupulous breeders which have never been walked?

I.dont think you have poor written expression and I dont think its anything to do with ADHD. You clearly have an extremely high opinion of yourself and your suitability to own this dog so go ahead, this thread is utterly pointless, I think you are just being a bit goady to be honest. Im on my second Cav, both rescues from backyard breeders and then idiot purchasers and I watched my last one die from the results of those idiots feeding the market for pups regardless of the almost inevitable genetic heart failure they will suffer. The endless personal details, over sharing and relentless self promotion demonstrates that this is not a situation where the poster actually wants an answer other than your own. So just go ahead and buy the bloody dog, its not a massive deal and with your exception character, life experience and doolittle talents with animals, im sure it will be just fine. And as you said early on, you can return it is you dont like it.

£50 was the minimum donation for the local rescue charity that I recused my dog from 4 years ago. I did in fact give them £200 I think. The dogs are fostered in peoples homes so maybe that makes the donation lower. They do pay for vet checks etc but they have other fundraising and donations aside from what people pay when rescuing a dog. I continue to donate to them regularly because I think they are a great charity.

OP I’m an HCP with 40+ years of dealing with exceedingly difficult people in high stress situations. As a sideline/serious hobby I am also very experienced with young and often neurotic race horses both TBs and Arabians. Finally I come from a farming background so loads of experience around animals in general. I don’t think any of this necessarily means that I could take on a possibly difficult unsocialised dog. This is why before taking on my dog at 10 month old I thought very carefully about it I asked myself and the breeder am I able to offer this dog a good home? I also researched the breeder asked about how he was socialised etc and did not let my heart rule my head (not always easy!).
Im not saying you can’t help this dog and it might come to you and be a total joy and you might be able to fix any problems you encounter but I genuinely don’t think that because you have “and a lifetime of working with people in trauma , distress and anger( from fear often ) -which was my forte( yes folk with what i have are over represented in things like emergency seevices)” or that your “manager told me that she felt that i was the most intelligent in my profession she ahd worked with in 30 years” means that you will have the skills for this dog without seeking help. In my extensive experience some of the most intelligent people I know were pretty hopeless around animals.
if you take him I genuinely hope it works out for you.

Brilliant. But I presume you want your own dig & 3 days isn't enough??

I think YOU are the best option the puppy will have. I think you'd be brilliant for it, I'm just not sure it's the most sensible
option for you as he may limit your life quite a lot.

let us know what you decide xx