Getting an 11 month old dog - advice please

[Lessworknow]

During our family search for a dog ,we came across an 11 month old cavapoo that has been extensively health checked.

We found him at a home breeders when considering a pup .

He was going to be a stud dog but now she does not need him as she has a pure breed - and this is why we know he is extensively checked and in good health

Breeder issues aside please….

This pup lives with multiple dogs and appears v gentle and chilled .
He has never been on walks but lives in a multi dog house hold and plays in a large garden

The owner took him for his first walk the day before we met him - with another dog and he was hesitant but coped well.

The next day , we went to meet him and walked him near a road . I sat on the floor with him on the grass verge and chatted to him and stroked him as if it was a non issue- again he was fine

When we returned to her home, he sat next to me and put his paw on my leg .

We have decided to bring him home - but are mindful that he has not seen children, been to public places.etc.

Bearing in mind he has missed his early socialisation window, please can we have your practical suggestions to help him transition to our home ?

Am aware he has never been without other dogs- is this a thing to be aware of ? And what can we do specifically to help him settle ?

My ideas in include-
.sleeping near him.
.quiet time at home initially .
some gentle visitors .
. walks near the home - same ones for familiarity .
.introduction to friends dog oriented dog - walks with her for confidence.

I need to introduce him to cafe s and pubs as that is very much part of our family lifestyle.I presume that the idea is to introduce slowly- but if he is anxious- what is the best way to react - treats and reassure or exit .. advice on this and general matter’s would be much appreciated.

This post makes no sense

When you rescue a dog via a charity you are not giving any money to the former owner or to the dogs original breeder only to the charity so how are you ‘supporting people who abandon their animals’
These dogs already exist and you are giving them a home instead of encouraging more to be bred. I can’t see how that is hypocritical or ignoble (not that I rescued my dog to appear ‘noble’)

tumblingdowntherabbithole

i am not fixated- but in truth I simply cannot seem to find a good breeder - I am finding the whole thing confusing.
for example this lady said that he was gentle and loving - as is stated on her web site - she has started to walk him etc and at what point ndo you trust people? !

Twiglets1 · Today 08:30

yes - thats ehat the suggestion of a trial was about.
But would that be long enough? People seem to be suggesting that behaviour can emerge once settled in / more confident? Issues would not show in a few days? That makes sense to me .

I’m just questioning why you would think it’s a good idea to take on an adolescent dog from a total stranger who never even bothered to take him
for a walk until you asked her to.

You say you can’t find a good breeder but this woman is a prime example of a puppy farmer who doesn’t give a shit about her dogs.

You’ve posted before haven’t you, OP? I’ve just recognised the slight disjointed mess of the posts and the syntax, and I think you mentioned before you had ADHD or similar?

If so, you have repeatedly had excellent advice on what to look for. People even looked at litters for you and gave steers towards good ones but you still keep coming back to dodgy puppy farm breeders.

Apologies, but if you haven’t made repeated posts about this…I suggest you check them out as the advice is precisely what you need to hear.

tumblingdowntherabbithole

I actually approached her as people had said that she helps match pups to owners.
At that point I asked specifically about an older dog too in case she had one

But when you saw she had an adolescent stud dog that had never been walked, why on earth didn’t the alarm bells start going off in your head?

Honestly, it sounds like you’ve seen a cute dog and are letting your heart rule your head. People who don’t walk their dogs and who use crosses as “studs” are not good people.

Dog trainer here.
If they do, they are rehomed to people who have a resident dog to show them the ropes, keep them company and maintain a modicum of normality to the dogs life. IMO it is absolutely cruel to remove a dog from canine companionship to fend for himself in a strange environment like this

Any ‘breeder’ who thinks a rehoming like this is acceptable- plus the fact that they’ve never bothered to take the poor dog away from home for a walk is abhorrent and I would run screaming from them and the doubtless issues that will come your way.

What he is likely to be in this scenario is overwhelmed and shut down. Which looks like calm……but isn’t. It takes 3 months for a dog with a normal upbringing to show their true personality after rehoming. For this pup it could be much longer. Only then will you know what you’ve let yourself in for

I cannot overstate what a terrible idea this is

LandSharksAnonymous

yes you are correct. I am really struggling.
i actually went back to the pure bred breeder that i was advised on - for a second view of a puppy to bond ,that id been advised was a good bet .
when i got there , the breeder had arranged for her friend to be there.
she works full time. So i was feeling really unsure re what level of socialisation the pups were actually getting.
She said they got daily handling. She sent one video only . But hiw can they be socialised if she is a busy mum at wirk fulll time ? In addition , English was her second language so it was hard re some nuances .

It makes perfect sense.
You are still providing a market. As long as people are willing to give a home to a puppy farmed dog - even if it is via a rescue charity, they will go on being churned out.
If we only buy from reputable, ethical sources there will be no market for puppy farmers and the trade will cease.

I agree OP, no different to taking on an older rescue dog and the issues that could potentially come with that. I don't think it's a no go but do bear in mind, that early (pre 16 weeks) socialisation period essentially shapes a dog (IMO) so there is a high chance the dog will have some issues from missing out on this.
I have a working sheepdog (also very much our family pet) got her when she was 3, fully trained sheepdog, she'd lived in a shed/kennel with about half a dozen other dogs and had never been in a home environment. She was scared of lots of things when we got her, a lot of the issues have gotten better just with the realisation that she actually enjoys some of the comforts of having " a home" but some things no matter how much, treating, encouraging, training we've done she will never "get over"

We got an 8 month old that we rehomed. She previously lived with a single parent with two autistic children and they never walked her. It took a few weeks of her not even wanting to leave the house. We had to carry her to the park but now she absolutely cannot wait to get out. We will can’t walk her on roads where there’s too much traffic but thankfully we have a park one minute walk from our house.

she hates car doors slamming and men in hi vis jackets but she is so much happier than when we first got her.

@Lessworknow I had an 18 month old rescue dog so slightly older than your potential dog. I had no history about her other than she was very nervous so trod very carefully introducing her into my life.

No-one can tell you what to expect as every dog is different but from what you've said, this dog sounds lovely. I would expect him to push boundaries in new places and while having new experiences. Consider him a preteen/teenager and treat accordingly! Expect the unexpected, be alert in all situations and don't take his behaviour for granted.
Good luck with him - he sounds lovely tbh

He sounds like a sweetheart.
Id be concerned about encouraging the breeder, but i think if the dog was what I was looking for, and needed a home and was affordable then id consider it.

We had a similar experience with our dog (cocker spaniel). We went to the breeder to meet her dog who was expecting a litter, with the intention of going on the waiting list. She mentioned that she had a 2 year old who she had planned on using for breeding, but because she was so small, decided against it. So we met the 2 year old, and fell in love and brought her home (not that same day - we did go away to think about it).

And similarly, she hadn't been on the lead or in a car, and I suspect she hadn't really left the farm she lived on (not a puppy farm - a literal farm with livestock). It was a complete change in her environment (rural setting to London suburb).

It helped her that we already had an older cocker spaniel, who has a very steady and calm disposition. I think he helped her find her way a lot of the time, and without him, I think she would have found adjusting much more difficult. Eg, she used to stick to him like glue around traffic because she'd never experienced it.

It took a good 3-6 months before she was fully settled and her true personality came out. Not the same kind of hard work that comes with having a puppy, but still quite a lot of work.

What is it you are looking for OP? Breed? Energy level? Lifestyle you can offer? The more info the better

It feels like you are flitting around and grasping onto opportunities that you happen across rather than starting with what is your ideal picture long term. Maybe we could help more with better understanding of you and your situation

I get that this breeder has not walked him.
This is the second example that ive. Seen exactly the same.
i did not know that he coukd be ‘ shut down’ - why would he be overwhelmed in a pack - his gentle nature ? What causes shut down ?

Yes , I suppose my heart eas ruling my head as he put his paw on me and I thought he is a lovely gentle dog.
You experts out there have no idea how vulnerable people are - I had a dog for 15 years and utterly loved her - i can and want to give a dog a long term loving home.
i did get good advice on another thread about a pure bred and what looked like an ok breeder according to experienced people on here, but when I returned for a second view , the breeder was too busy as works full time- and it made me concerned about the level of socialisation actually occurring.

I personally think he is young enough to acclimatise to life, he sounds quiet rather than aggressive, and you sound lovely and patient to have time for him. We fostered, then adopted, a 5 year old dog with so many issues. It's more difficult as she was older but after patience and hard work she is a wonderful companion.

@Lessworknow are you the same poster who has created multiple threads?? Please answer that question

Well yes, there can be a happy ending. Many dogs end up in rescue having not been walked or socialised properly, they can go on to have good lives with the right owner.
It will take more work than a well socialised dog, but you can get there in the end. Dogs, like people, have their own personalities and although you can influence this to some degree in how you bring them up, there are always temperaments to consider. I think he might really miss other dogs, but if he meets dogs on walks every day he will hopefully make new friends.
I grew up with a rescue dog, who we took in at around the same age. She had not been socialised well either, but she was a very gentle dog. We never managed to get her to be great with recall, but that was partly a breed thing. Other than that there were actually no problems, so it’s not a given that it will be terrible.

I have had a series of rescue dogs, and some have been so behaviourally challenged that it meant totally changing my life (not leaving them alone, not going to pubs and cafes with them etc).

The point I would make is that you are seeing the dog in his familiar environment and he is still cowering at a human approach from someone he doesn't know, that screams lack of socialisation and exposure to new things.

Down the line, I would suspect this dog (now without his dog family to give him confidence and support) would either develop reactivity (to dogs or humans - basically attacking to say go away as he won't have learnt confident calm behaviours as a puppy in new situations) or separation anxiety if his lack of confidence means he decides to fixate on you. Separation anxiety is THE worst to deal with and often can't be fixed even with desensitisation training (dog has panic attack when you leave, even for a short time) so you would have to arrange for someone to always be with them.

Just because the dog is calm when you see them doesn't mean they will be in your home. I've had newly homed rescues who have kept me at night for a long time as they have panicked on their own without doggy company, despite me being in the same room. This could happen here, so your concerns about lack of sleep with a puppy is on the cards too.

Add in the age and the onset of teenage behaviour and I think you have the perfect storm in the offing, unless you prepare for the worst and are also prepared to work with behavioural professionals from the outset.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but rescues are full of teenage dogs for a reason.

I think the fact he cowered when you went to stroke him in his own home would really worry me. Even if he hasn't been walked if she's a breeder surely she's had people in and out of the house. He sounds very timid to be so nervous of a stranger.

He might get bolder or he might find lots of things very overwhelming

It's also a fallacy that x breed = calm, dogs are as different as people. I've seen litters where one dog is super shy from birth while others are really confident (all with the same kind, experienced upbringing).

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but rescues are full of teenage dogs for a reason.
This.
Only the 11-month old puppy you are after isn't a cute puppy discarded by someone who couldn't be arsed to train it, it's from someone who breeds and sells puppies that will be bought by people who buy cute puppies that get discarded because they can't be arsed to train it.

Get a cat instead.