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28 replies

ZoeJo · 09/09/2025 09:04

Hi
I'm first time dog owner of a large 2yo (entire) male labrador who I've had since he was 2mo. I love him enormously and wouldn't trade him for the world.
I've found training him more complex than I expected and I feel like Ive made so many mistakes.
I think it's partly his personality. Even as a small pup, he has always been unusually independently minded and confident. He's not a cuddler by nature. He knows his own mind and has never really looked to me for leadership. He has never responded to praise or petting as 'rewards' as I think most retriever dogs would.

Thankfully he's also very clever, enjoys training and is very food orientated.
So I've been able to teach him all the basic commands, using treats, all of which he learned quickly and easily - sit, stay, wait, off, down, leave it, place, OK (release word), touch, heel, paw etc
However he mainly only does it for food and provided that there's nothing better to do.
I've been trying to reduce amount of treats with mixed succes.
What I hadn't appreciated was that teaching commands is only a fraction of dog training. The most important parts (for me anyway) are good manners. Like not jumping up at people, not stealing objects, not being pushy or bullish about getting what he wants. I'm finding good manners much harder to train.

He has good manners in some scenarios - meal times (waits until told), excellent car manners.

There are also so many lovely things about his personality. He's very playful and fun loving. Most importantly, he's very good natured, friendly to everyone; people and dogs. He wants to befriend everyone indiscriminately (to a fault). He gets lots of compliments about how healthy and handsome he looks, how lovely natured, non-aggressive, playful, lovely etc. Several strangers have told me they'd love a dog like him and wished he was their dog. Most of the time he's a dog I can be proud of.
But there really is something missing in my training of him.

An example from this morning. He knows he's not allowed in my bedroom. He sleeps in the hall outside my bedroom door. He's been really good for months about not trying to come in (mostly because I give him food rewards each time he doesnt). But now that I'm phasing food rewards out, this morning he pushed past me into my bedroom and jumped up on my bed. Last time he did that he desttoyed my bedding while I tried for 15 minutes to bribe him off of my bed with food. This time, he was right next to my most sentimental, prized possession in the world, a handmade quilt made for me by my Mum. I instantly and without thinking said "No!", grabbed his collar and dragged him off my bed and back to hall and shut the door. I've never dragged him like that before.
Now I'm worried that I've done wrong thing, and that it could lead to future problems - e.g. him trying again and next time growling at me(which he's never done to date) or developing a fear of having his collar touched and maybe growling or snapping at that (again, which he has never done to date).
I feel guilty and awful for dragging him off my bed by collar. All I can think of is to go back to constant food rewards and maybe clicker for not coming into my bedroom until he forgets about today. But I never envisaged having a dog who'd only do as I asked for constant food bribes.
I suppose I'm asking more exoerienced dog people:
How can I get an independently minded, super strong dog like him who doesn't respond to praise, to reliably do as I ask without constant food bribes? I hate that I resorted to force this morning without thinking :-( I've vowed never to do that again. But I also can't allow my 6 stone dog to keep running circles round me.

OP posts:
SpanielsGalore · 09/09/2025 09:24

The easiest thing to do would be to put a tall stairgate up to block his access to your room.

ZoeJo · 09/09/2025 09:30

I'd thought of that but unfortunately it wouldn't work in our set-up. We live in a bungalow and he has to sleep in hallway (which leads to my bedroom door) to keep him out of trouble stealing, chewing etc.

OP posts:
Hippymoose · 09/09/2025 09:34

I have a few baby gates up and would also recommend them. You can just put them in doorways, they don't have to go on stairs. Mine still tries to push through but it makes the gap between your legs and the access a lot smaller and controllable.

SpanielsGalore · 09/09/2025 09:38

ZoeJo · 09/09/2025 09:30

I'd thought of that but unfortunately it wouldn't work in our set-up. We live in a bungalow and he has to sleep in hallway (which leads to my bedroom door) to keep him out of trouble stealing, chewing etc.

Why can't you put one on your bedroom door? I have three up in my house, resticting access to various rooms.

LandSharksAnonymous · 09/09/2025 09:56

You did the wrong thing in grabbing him - and you are very lucky he didn't snap - but you know that. Please don't do it again.

Ultimately, you need to use food if that is what works. Labs are big enough they can barge past stairgates, or push over play-pens and he could get hurt in the process.If he is fat, cut down how much food you give him at meals - that not only makes the 'rewards' more attractive to him but also won't fatten him up.

I think it's partly his personality. Even as a small pup, he has always been unusually independently minded and confident. He's not a cuddler by nature. He knows his own mind and has never really looked to me for leadership. He has never responded to praise or petting as 'rewards' as I think most retriever dogs would
Unfortunately, that's just dog ownership. Most dogs are not praise driven - they are reward driven and it's important to separate the two. For some of them, that is praise but for most it's food, or toys etc.

ZoeJo · 09/09/2025 10:00

Great, thanks, I'll get 3 stair gates. If only all my problems were as easily solved :-)

OP posts:
CarterBeatsTheDevil · 09/09/2025 10:07

I was going to say, I would not force phasing out food rewards completely. For some things you'll be able to, but where the reward for disobedience is high-value (like getting into your room/on your bed) whatever you offer for obedience needs to be a realistic contender and if that's food then that's food. Just be sensible about what the treat is. Stair gates sound sensible too though!

SpanielsGalore · 09/09/2025 10:17

ZoeJo · 09/09/2025 10:00

Great, thanks, I'll get 3 stair gates. If only all my problems were as easily solved :-)

The only problem you have stated is he enters your bedroom. A stairgate would solve that issue.

But hey. You do you. Carry on dragging him out by the collar and then rehome him when he bites you.

Branster · 09/09/2025 10:28

You have an intact adult male labrador. Strong dogs but the most dependable pets IF you train them consistently and firmly.
Forget about 'his' personality and all that nonsense. He's a dog.
Be firm, train train train at ever opportunity.

Be firm, I cannot emphasise this enough.

You shouldn't need a stairgate but, under the circumstances, needs must.

I agree grabbing wasn't the best move. Ideally in that scenario you should have told him 'off', the dog gets off the bed, you say 'out', the dog leaves the room. Absolutely no need for touching.

But it's done now.

You will have the perfect pet within 1.5-2 years if you keep at it. He is still trying it on to see what he can get away with. Your response will be a consistent 'nothing'.

Just keep at it with training and remember to be firm. It's a learning experience for both of you and although Labradors are not exactly big dogs, males in particular are physically very strong and can be very excitable. He will calm down soon enough then you can start to relax a bit.

Lougle · 09/09/2025 10:33

"The most important parts (for me anyway) are good manners. Like not jumping up at people, not stealing objects, not being pushy or bullish about getting what he wants. I'm finding good manners much harder to train."

@ZoeJo this is more to do with impulse control. The reason he's got good manners in some situations is that you've practiced them day in, day out. You eat meals every day. Dogs learn behaviour patterns. He's learned that you want him to leave your plate alone and lay down.

You can't teach 'don't jump'. In fact you can't teach a dog not to do anything. It's not how they learn. You need to teach the alternative behaviour that you do want him to offer.

Behaviour modification is a two pronged affair. You need training (what do I want you to do?) and management (how do I stop you doing what I don't want you to do, until you have learned to do what I want you to do?). So, jumping up at people:

Management: shorter lead; more distance between you and people; ask people to ignore him if he jumps; be observant for him wanting to jump.

Training: use a short lead. If he pulls towards people, just stand still. Don't pull him and don't say anything. As he feels the tension on his neck, he is likely to look back, even if only for a fraction of a second. As soon as he does that, 'yes' and give a treat. Over time, he will look back more quickly. Once he's looking back reliably, you can introduce a 'leave him/her/it' cue before he starts to lunge.

ACavalierDream · 09/09/2025 10:40

I don’t know labs at all but with dogs and children the best ones are the tired ones. If you take him
out and tire him out, I would imagine like mine he will collapse in his bed. Do you think he is getting enough exercise?

Nella68 · 09/09/2025 10:44

@ZoeJo have you considered the Kennel Club good citizen award? It covers things like calm greetings, not jumping up etc. Calm greetings are the thing that I am finding most challenging as my 19 month dog thinks that everyone is his best friend. I hate dogs jumping up. As a family we have never encouraged or rewarded it. Unfortunately there are a lot of people who think dogs are public property and every time someone pets him without asking and says ‘I don’t mind’ when he jumps up, it reinforces the behaviour.

Just a thought about the treats- are you bribing him i.e. showing the treat to get the behaviour, or do you have a treat pouch that your hand doesn’t go anywhere near until he performs the behaviour required? A clicker may be good to use. The click would be a snapshot of the required behaviour and then the reward.

Girliefriendlikespuppies · 09/09/2025 10:53

At 2yo he’s still a young dog and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with telling your dog off when they’re being annoying tbh.

The thing I didn’t really appreciate when I got my dog is how ongoing the training is, it’s every single day and my dog is 6yo now! He sounds a similar personality to your dog tbh and I wouldn’t worry about phasing treats out, they need to know when they’ve got it right and foods the easiest way to show that.

tumblingdowntherabbithole · 09/09/2025 12:06

ZoeJo · 09/09/2025 10:00

Great, thanks, I'll get 3 stair gates. If only all my problems were as easily solved :-)

I mean, you don’t actually mention any issues other than the dog getting on your bed and not coming off when asked. A stairgate would very easily and cheaply solve that problem for you.

Our beagle is seven and we still use a stairgate to keep him out of the kitchen because, honestly, it’s much less hassle than constantly trying to fight against his instinct to eat and use his nose 🤣

tumblingdowntherabbithole · 09/09/2025 12:07

And yes, if treats work then keep using them! There’s absolutely logical reason to phase them out - you wouldn’t phase out praise so why phase out food?

currahee · 09/09/2025 12:13

Baby gate in the doorway really is an instant management fix here.

However - 15 minutes to get him off your bed, 'bribing' with food? Just tell him to get off!

A well bred, well adjusted, confident dog is not going to fall to pieces because you occasionally tell them "no", "get out", "get off" etc. or even in most circumstances to take them by the collar to back this up, and it is absolutely not normal to be carrying food around the house for constant treat reinforcement in a regular pet dog with no real behavioural issues.

lionbrain · 09/09/2025 14:27

He is not doing things to annoy you or because "he knows he shouldn't". He is not deliberately running circles around you. He is just doing what is the most rewarding behaviour (which coincidentally is behaviour you dont want).

He does things that are the most rewarding. It was more rewarding for him to go into your room than stay outside without treats. Bring in the treats for staying outside then he stays outside. I can see that you may want to increase the time between rewarding with treats but if it works eg he does what you want is happy to do what you want then reward him.

Get in a good 121 trainer to give you specific help in the behaviours you want to achieve and then be consistent in your training. He is still a young lab and when left to their own decision making can not always be trusted to make the correct life choices.

Dearg · 09/09/2025 14:54

I think you have got some good advice so far. I would add that 2 is pretty young for a Labrador. There’s a lot of curiosity in that late head, and a lot of energy that goes with.

I did a lot of formal training with mine, all the KC awards, scent classes. Repetition, reinforcement, consistency are key.

Teach him ‘off’ with your command voice. Reward him when he does it. And yes , gates will help.

CoubousAndTourmaIet · 09/09/2025 15:59

ZoeJo · 09/09/2025 10:00

Great, thanks, I'll get 3 stair gates. If only all my problems were as easily solved :-)

I'm also not too proud to admit that I couldn't cope without gates. They do make life easier. We have 5 in our house currently. Giant breed puppy, 8 stone and stubborn, so I need all the help I can get.

Our current pup is not food motivated, so we've always used treats very sparingly. There are two or three items that are high value to her so I can generally get her attention with those. But they need to be kept for emergency only or it becomes meaningless. It's really not easy training without using food or training a dog that ignores food in favour of doing their own thing.

tabulahrasa · 09/09/2025 16:48

What you currently have is a dog that’s making his own rewards tbh, jumping up, getting you to chase him in your bed… all hugely rewarding for him.

I’d look for some specific training near you - not necessarily basic training but some game based stuff or workshop type things. Gundog training or scentwork or similar things.

Or book some one on one sessions with a good trainer.

Basically you want him to have better impulse control and he needs you to be channeling his energy better….

I also suspect you need a bit more confidence, which is where getting someone else to help you would make a big difference.

Dragging him out of a room by his collar is not inherently going to cause a major issue in a confident stable dog - it’s just moving your dog… I mean, rubbish if you were trying to teach him anything, but effective as a way to get him out quickly.

CarterBeatsTheDevil · 09/09/2025 20:58

Yes, I have to say I have never thought twice about grabbing a dog of mine by the collar and pulling him away from something if safety required, and I would expect to be able to do that without being bitten.

CoubousAndTourmaIet · 09/09/2025 21:07

I don't understand the issue either. I've always been able to physically move my dogs without them objecting. I'm gentle, it's not about dominance at all; they're huge and strong but very calm and it's never been an issue. I hauled my pup off the sofa this evening because she was facing the wrong way and in danger of rolling off. I've never once felt there was any risk to me, or that they were at all bothered by me doing it.

SpanielsGalore · 09/09/2025 21:46

@CarterBeatsTheDevil and @CoubousAndTourmaIet Both of your situations are different to the OP's though.
If my dog is in danger and I need to drag them to safety, then obviously I'll do it. I do know someone who was bitten in that situation, but the dog was frightened and redirecting.
And gently moving your dog on the sofa, because they might fall is different. I haul K up all the time when her head is hanging over the edge. Or I'll shove her across a bit on the bed, because she's taking up too much room.
It's really not the same as grabbing a dog in anger or frustration and dragging them off the furniture and out of a room.

CoubousAndTourmaIet · 09/09/2025 21:55

Thanks @SpanielsGalore I just had a bit of paranoia, because I've always been very hands-on and my dogs are tactile with me. No, it's never anger and it's not rough, so you're probably right that what the OP describes is different.

Hellohelga · 09/09/2025 23:15

Owner of two strong willed labs here. Ignore the PP who said you did the wrong thing pulling him by the collar. Dogs get pulled on the collar on every walk when you stop or change direction. It’s not like you hit him. One thing is for sure, your dog doesn’t respect you and doesn’t listen to you and that must change. An out of control lab is just a menace.

Follow the rule of SAY IT ONCE THEN MAKE IT HAPPEN. When you tell him OFF (the sofa) or OUT (the bedroom) ON (his bed) use a firm voice and say it ONCE, then make it happen by pulling him by the collar or better still clipping on the lead and leading him. After a couple of times he’ll get the message. If he does it willingly, then he gets a treat AFTER he has done it (that’s the difference between a treat and a lure/bribe) but if you have to lead him then no treat. The more he obeys one command the more he will obey others. Listening becomes a habit.

Believe me he will NOT bite you for pulling him by the collar. Nor will he love you less if fact he will love you MORE because he will respect you and you will be telling him frequently that he is SUCH A GOOD BOY. As you relationship improves you will find he responds more to praise too.

Regarding general manners, The Pet Gun Dog by Lez Graham is excellent on this and is in my opinion essential reading for lab owners. You might also consider a dog trainer to help you with next steps.
Best of luck.