New pup incoming… what do I need?

[3oldladiesstuckinalavatory]

After years of careful research and deliberation/procrastination we’ve finally bitten the bullet and gave chosen our pup. She’s a mixed breed, mostly poodle but with some border collie thrown in there too.
She’s crate trained, so I’ve found one on Facebook marketplace for her that should be big enough to be a safe place for her to hide from the cat (and us, if she needs to!) and will buy a new dog bed, food and toys. I’ve ordered a selection of dog training books (one specifically for poodles). Our garden needs dog proofing I guess? What else? Grew up with dogs but it’s all so different now 😱.

They key is they don't want to because being in a tight circumference to me is more rewarding than buggering off.
By 2 years old I can control a dog on a shoot 2 fields away because of those foundations.
When they are working of course my dogs go further than 1 or 2 metres but they will always come back to that safe space.
If my dogs get a fright they don't run away, they run into that tight safe space. Can you say the same?

My issue is with the advice that the dog always has to be within proximity. It can only go a distance of one metre per year of age. So up until it is 2 years old, it isn't allowed further than a metre away from you. My lead is longer than that!

I have explained that above.

Let me ask you have you ever had issues with recall at any point with any dog?

Sounds very similar to me. I think people underestimate hugely the work you can achieve pre jabs just by building a bond and a solid play drive. By the time my pup is floor ready I fully expect to be at the level you describe - and will manage on a line etc any situations that are beyond pups ability level or once the idiot decides to go all adolescent and hard of hearing
I probably am a bit slacker on proximity than you - but deffo no more than 2-3 meters until a grown up (who is usually being sent to retrieve if they are that far away. They want to mooch close to me - conditioned by repetition partly. Goldie desire to stay close the other part

A Kong teddy (every baby needs a teddy, and mine still play with theirs at 5 and 3), balls to play with (mine love the rubber ones from B&M), a cosy bed, and a lot of treats to encourage learning how to sit and lie down!

Also, a lot of patience when it comes to house training...

Some breeders definitely do crate train puppies - Some rescues do too

if crates are being used anyway they can skip the whole gradually introducing them part, you have mum and puppies in one big crate and then all they’re having to do is a bit of work on being alone in them.

Exactly and I can safely say I've never had my recall fail, had a dog pull on a lead etc.
It's all based on positivity etc.

@twistyizzy To respond to all points.

I do know what socialisation is, thank you.
If my dogs are frightened or wary of something, they come back to me. They don't run off. Just because they aren't highly trained and are allowed to run at a distance, it doesn't mean they aren't bonded with me.
Yes I have had problems with recall. My 11 month old took 5 minutes to come back last night. But she had perfect recall before adolescence hit and I am sure we'll have perfect recall again.

I don't know anyone with a pet dog who follows your training guidelines. I appreciate working dogs are probably different.

This is all so interesting, thank you. I like the idea of the gun dog training, because weren’t poodles bred originally to retrieve water foul? I haven’t read up on this enough.

We are lucky to have a medium sized garden and a huge park over the road. Lots of space, but lots of distractions, with acres and acres of woodland with ponds to explore. My ultimate goal is to be able to have my dog off lead, but totally under control, but if it takes years to achieve that I would be okay with that.

I don't know anyone with a pet dog who follows your training guidelines. I appreciate working dogs are probably different.
I don’t either - and I train pet dogs (well their owners really)for a living! But that’s because of a lack of knowledge that those who ‘work’ dogs do not suffer from. By the time they get to me, they are already pulling, ignoring recall, have found out that the big old world is fundamentally more interesting than the owner and the problems have set in and need fixing. The foundations from weeks 8-12 are pre training lessons so the pet dog owner is running blind.

She’s 10 weeks and is in a crate at night with her siblings - fed in there too. Mum and other related dogs are kept in a crate next to her overnight, with free range in a fenced off garden space during the day and time in the main house (which is massive and open plan, not really safe for pups) for cuddles and playing.

I’ve never used a crate before but want to keep that constant at least when she’s little. My plan is to keep the crate downstairs with the same bedtimes / wake up that she has now. I’m guessing I might sleep on a sofa next to her for the first couple of nights to settle her in?

Yes poodles were originally water dogs. I know several working poodles ie on shoots etc.

Precisely!!

"I don't know anyone with a pet dog who follows your training guidelines. I appreciate working dogs are probably different" no, a dog is a dog and non-working dogs were once bred to do a job.

Most pet training results in dogs who pull/run off etc. Too much "fur babying" and excusing of poor behaviour when puppies plus lack of setting foundations in the first 3 months create majority of behaviour issues in pet dogs.

@twistyizzy Yes a dog is a dog. What the owners require of the dogs differs.

I set my foundations from the beginning and my puppy had perfect recall. Now she has hit adolescence and her recall sometimes fails in high distraction settings. I admit I cannot compete with a deer at dusk. @Dunnocantthinkofone ,who agrees with your methods, has acknowledged the hard of hearing adolescent phase. So we'll persevere and we'll get there again. But I'd rather use a long line than keep her within a metre of me.

Hate the term furbaby.

But that's my point, because I proof the recall early and continually, my dogs get lots of freedom and are hardly ever on leads.
When they are working they can go up to 2 fields away from me and still be under control.

The closeness isn't a negative because it's where all the fun happens. It's the safe and happy space for the dog.

I get that you don't understand it but that's probably because you've never experienced it.

A lot of patience a warm jacket and some slip on shoes , lots of cut up old towels as rags or wipes kitchen roll. Lol.
in return you will laugh and go “ ahhhh” a lot . And you will fall in love.
At the nibbling stage get an age appropriate tasty chewy toy or treat.
a baby kong with creme cheese or yoghurt . You can freeze if you like .
i’m v jealous.

my new puppy boxer is coming next month

I think it helps to view walks not as ‘walks’ per se but as opportunities to play games together out and about. Much higher input required from the handler, more fun engagement for the dog. If you are actively playing together, you are by definition close proximity.
The only thing I like to add in is some cued free time to sniff/mooch. However it’s often difficult to get rid of the dog at that point as they are enjoying the interaction!
It has to be said though, it’s an easier job with a gun dog who is bred to work close to their human with a biddable nature. A terrier?…..not so much!

My ultimate goal is to be able to have my dog off lead, but totally under control

The easiest way to achieve this with any dog is religiously treat puppy when you call them. That's when they are out in the garden, in a different room or even if you want to do some training. You say Fido come - followed by a treat as soon as they appear. This can continue once pup is going for walks. So if pup strays to far ahead/ behind its Fido come & treat.

You can also practice walking to heel in the very early days as puppy will naturally follow you around. For me it's a little tap on the side of my leg and Fido heel and then walk a few steps. Stop & say good Fido heel & treat then repeat. Again, this can be done around the house & garden slowly increasing the distance ... until you are ready to go outside. Basically, you are conditioning your dog to be close to you and to come to you.

Just remember, with dog training, it's little and often. A few minutes here and there over the day is better than an 30 minute session once a day.

I wouldn’t bother with a dog bed as such - I always use a plain vet bed in a crate. But two or three so you’ve got 1 for when the other is in wash, and another if you also have a crate inside your car.

As you’re doing - loads of planning! Plan for GOOD, careful, socialisation. Plan the commands you will use (sounds obvious but include the words for doing their business outside). And travelling in the car. Buy appropriate grooming kit and plan to start gently in the early days with you.

Enjoy your pup!

So if she’s not been alone in the crate she’s not quite crate trained yet, you’ll still need to do that bit.

You just start off real slow because you don’t want her upset, leave the room come straight back - once she’s cool with that a bit longer, just like getting any puppy/dog used to being left.

The only thing is, it might take longer than a few days to settle her in and do that - personally I’d put the crate next to my bed, even if it’s just temporary. Depends how comfy your couch is I suppose 😂

@3oldladiesstuckinalavatory she’s not crate trained then! The breeder can dress it up all she wants, but being in a crate with litter mates in an environment she’s used too is incredibly different to being in one alone.

Thank god you said it. It was nonsense .

It isn't nonsense. Been training working dogs for many years.
What is nonsense is the amount of untrained pet dogs, dogs never allowed off lead cos they haven't got recall, dogs constantly pulling on a lead, rude dogs who run up to other dogs and people, dogs with separation anxiety, fear of other dogs etc. All because their owners don't train them.