Short time between litters

[Itssosad]

One of our neighbours dog had a litter of 8 puppies on Christmas day 2024.
Last week it had another litter of 11 puppies. Mum is a Labrador.
I presume dad is the same breed. First lot were sold at £1000 each.
Second lot have just been advertised on FB for £1200 to be collected in October.
Mum does live in the house.
Is this a normal amount of time between litters.
Worried for the poor dog. Is this a puppy farm.

Doesn’t sound like a puppy farm but does sound irresponsible and more than likely done for the money. Dogs needs a year between litters for the mum to recover

I think that's pretty quick. I'm no expert, but seems like your neighbour has just waited the very bare minimum and got the poor dog pregnant again very quickly. That's a lot of puppies and a lot of money.

Not normal. If I breed a bitch twice, I do it with at least a 2 year gap between litters.

But, people are greedy and stupid. People will pay for those dogs, not caring about the poor breeding (because any litter that quickly is not being done with the healthiest dogs) and possible health conditions, and end up with very defective dogs down the line. It's not much money for a dog. That's likely because the dogs will be pretty sickly, I imagine.

To put a dog through this twice in a twelve month period is pretty despicable. They're not much of a dog lover, are they?

Tbh any sort of breeding which is done purely for money is despicable regardless of the time frame between the litters

@Coconutter24 technically, almost all breeders breed for profit. Or at least to break even. I know I do. And anyone who doesn't need to breed with finances in mind is incredibly privileged.

If one of my girl's has a litter, I have to take c. 3-4 months off work. That's three-four months salary I lose. If I don't sell the puppies for a particular price then I end up earning less than I would do if I didn't have a litter.

It would be a pretty awful situation if only the incredibly wealthy could afford to breed their dogs!

Obviously all breeders breed for profit that doesn’t make it any less selfish. Using a living animal and its body to make money. No one ‘needs’ to breed. If if happens naturally then people have to make a decision on what to do etc which is usually sell the puppies but people going out their way to get a dog pregnant to sell the puppies is selfish

@Coconutter24 what about people who breed carefully, and thus deliberately 'go out of their way to get a dog pregnant' to ensure that the puppies are healthy?

Or would you much prefer accidental pregnancies that 'happen naturally' where the parents are defective in some way (dysplasia, PRA etc)?

Genuinely curious.

I’m sure I just answered that…. It’s selfish

@Coconutter24 Ahh so defective dogs, and natural pregnancies, are better than carefully thought out ones to ensure dogs are born healthy.

I'm glad you could confirm that. Thank you 😁

So then why breed them at all? There are enough dogs in the world. Why not just do your normal work - not sure what work just allows you 3 to 4 months off to breed puppies but there you go - and not put your girls through pregnancy and giving birth?

It would be a great situation if only ethical breeders bred from their dogs and that numbers of breeders were hugely reduced. There are far too many dogs in rescue, over 100,000 a year being rescued and needing new homes.

@Cat3059 because my dogs are excellent examples of their breed (practically perfect, if I am honest). If the breed 'average' in terms of health scores was more closely aligned to that of my dogs then I probably wouldn't. But, as it is, you'd have to look pretty damn hard to find dog of my breed that are healthier than mine tbh.

I agree, there are far too many dogs in rescue. But that's usually down to poor breeding (which is the opposite of what I do) and poor breeders as well as people who not equipped to buy dogs buying them - none of which are anything to do with me.

So, I will carry on breeding my healthy dogs selectively because I know I am producing dogs that people are willing to wait 2+ years for, despite it being one of the most common breeds in the UK. 😊

My sister adopted a 2 year old springer spaniel about 6 or 7 months ago. Apparently she had had 4 sets of pups already. She was only about half the size she should have been as she hadn't been given a chance to grow as she was constantly feeding her litters.

They thought that she had just been used to breed pups and make money. They reckon that she had never been inside a family home and as a result has fitted in perfectly and knows that she is onto a good thing. Poor little divil but she is adorable 😍.

Neighbour works at Wood Green. They adopted a tiny little Dachshund, ex breeding bitch from a puppy farm.

When I say tiny - she is a dot. Like... the smallest dog I've ever seen. They think she was barely fed and they just used her to churn out litter after litter for five years straight. How on earth she actually fit puppies in her I don't know..!

A friend adopted another Daxie, years ago. Again ex-puppy farm bitch. She'd had so many litters she had been left incontinent. :-(

I think you are delusional.

Humans select and breed domestic animals for specific purposes. That includes pet dogs & cats. A dog that was bred for money can also be a valued pet & companion. So it has multiple purposes.

Is it selfish? Maybe, maybe not ... our relationship with domestic animals is very complex at the best of times.

Do you think someone who breeds their dog every year sees their pet as a valued companion or a cash cow? I’m not delusional I think you are if you believe breeders see the dog as a valued pet or companion!

That’s not what I said at all but you keep writing words for people in an attempt to make what you do seem any less despicable.

Don't worry, I shall.

I imagine you also have issues with people breeding sheep - because that doesn't happen naturally - or cows, or chicken etc. Almost every animal in commercialized farming is there as a result of human intervention...do you think they breed the cattle that aren't plump enough, or the ones that are a bit small? No. They don't. Admittedly, it is very different (because their goal is just profit rather than breeding to make a healthy animal) but the principle is the same thing. Are you vegetarian?

I asked if you would rather it happened organically, and it risked unhealthy offspring, or if it was done the way I do it to have health dogs...and you pretty much said you'd rather organically with unhealthy offspring ("I just answered that, it's selfish" - i.e. breeding to try and produce health animals as opposed to letting it happen randomly and risking unhealthy animals).

It's all there in black and white. 😊But please, feel free to say:

'No. All dogs should be healthy - no one should be breeding unhealthy animals, and it's much better people are trying to breed healthy animals than risking animals being born with severe, life-limiting, diseases and health issues."

Because, ultimately, if you cannot say that then I was completely right in my interpretation of what you said.

and you pretty much said you'd rather organically with unhealthy offspring

No I didn’t, pretty much isn’t me saying that pretty much is you making an assumption.
I haven’t really thought about cows and sheep tbh and no I’m not vegetarian

@Coconutter24 the fact you cannot even say:

"No. All dogs should be healthy - no one should be breeding unhealthy animals, and it's much better people are trying to breed healthy animals than risking animals being born with severe, life-limiting, diseases and health issues."

Speaks volumes.

This is skewed logic.

We do "need" to breed in order to maintain purebred dogs capable of working. It is not selfish to breed a dog that can herd sheep, protect livestock or retrieve game. Dogs have been specifically bred for these purposes for centuries.

The chance of me being able to find a puppy of my (uncommon) breed from a mating that happened naturally/accidentally is zero. I would not, in any case, consider it without having hip and elbow scores of both parents and all four grandparents, a 5 generation pedigree and knowing the inbreeding coefficient.

Why would you consider it acceptable if I bred my bitch accidentally with a mutt from down the road and sold the pups, but selfish if I planned a litter with a health tested stud dog of her own breed and sold the pups? Same bitch, same amount of work rearing a litter, still money in my pocket but the purebred health tested option gives my puppy buyers a better chance of a sound dog. So why is one mating okay to you and one not?

It's reverse snobbery. Nothing more.

🤷🏽‍♀️ some do & some don't. It's not black and white like you want us believe.

If the aim is to produce dogs that are fit for purpose, that's being suitable as a pet or working dog or even a K9 sports dog... then why not make some money as well?
Why should a breeders effort, knowledge and expertise not be financially rewarding?
We're happy to pay other professionals for their expertise, so why not someone who is able to provide us with a sound and healthy puppy?

No. All dogs should be healthy - no one should be breeding unhealthy animals, it's not much better people trying to breed healthy animals people should not breed for money and claim they’re doing the animal a favour…

fixed it because yet again you are putting words in mouth. Why is it no one can have an opinion or a voice unless it is in line with what you say?

I do understand the need for breeding for healthy work dogs but the point is a lot of people that breed aren’t doing it properly, a lot of them are breeding out their kitchen and only doing it for money. Which I find unethical. I wouldn't find it acceptable if your dog accidentally got pregnant it would be unacceptable for your dog to be running loose and resulting in a pregnancy.

Well, I can't actually disagree with any of that 🤔

So why did you come at me, when I am one of the breeders who doesn't do the things you frown on? Just a bit mind boggling.

You called me despicable. 😊