Our Cosmic Autumn Rebellion (Adolescent Support Group)

[MonCoubousMonTourmalet]

Okay folks, let's head into late summer/autumn.

Hopefully it's just a bad habit he's got into then and nothing more, but probably worth keeping an eye on it just in case.

I am new to this thread and hope my wise fellow dog owners can help! My 7 month old (recently neutered) Pom- who was previously the loveliest, sweetest most well behaved cat friendly puppy you could imagine- has now started terrorising our cat! The cat is confident and previously loved dogs, so welcomed the puppy when he arrived at 8 weeks with her usual tolerance and only the odd swipe.

But now as soon as he sees her he either chases her or jumps on top of her if she's close enough. He does often stop chasing when I tell him (not always) but the cat is not happy at his sudden bad behaviour. Any advice please? xx

@Tamarastar Welcome to adolescence. 😁 I'm sorry. I've never had cats with dogs, so don't feel able to offer any useful advice. Other than the obviouf making sure the cat has an escape route and a safe place to go out of reach of the dog. @Aubrielle has both, so she might be able to help.
Is he being aggressive or is it his idea of playing?

Took K for a walk in the woods, in hope of shelter from the hail showers. Not sure we were very successful.

Hi @Tamarastar welcome to the thread.
I’m sorry but I haven’t any advice about dogs and cats living in harmony. My pup hates cats and I have to be very vigilant if we’re out on a walk.
The only thing I can suggest is for the cat to have a safe space!

@SpanielsGalore that’s one soggy dog. I bet it’s been cold where you are.

It’s been beautiful weather here- frosty, cold and sunny. All the mud was frozen so it made a change to come home with clean feet.

@Nella68 It's wet and windy here today, with showers of hail stones. 4° but feels like -1°. I'm on the coast so no snow here yet, but plenty if you travel a little inland or a bit further north.

Thanks @SpanielsGalore Our cat has safe spaces in all rooms luckily and there's no aggression, just playful, just a shame they can't sit cosily next to my desk together as they used to... @Nella68 a pup who hates cats sounds challenging- there are loads of cats where I live!
Enjoy the cold walks!

Hi @Tamarastar
I can relate to pup thinking the cat is a dog and will play puppy games. It's sort of sad for the puppy in a way but obviously the cat needs protecting from rough play.

It sounds as if you already have a lot of experience so I doubt I can really advise, except to say the obvious, which is that their relationship will change as pup matures.
Our current girl pup is now 20 months, our cat is an old lady of 13 and this is her third dog. We really had to be careful to start with because pup is a giant breed and could have squished the cat without meaning to. Every time she saw the cat she'd start the puppy bowing and side to side bouncing 😨 But now they're brilliant together, I can even feed them side by side. The cat is the boss and pup is now very respectful.
Just keep doing what you're doing - hopefully in a few months time your puppy will be much calmer and they'll sit together amicably. I really don't think there's any way to speed things up though; the cat will always dictate the pace.

Awww, poor little K looks drenched and a bit fed up there @SpanielsGalore
Can't believe we're colder than you are!

Thanks for the encouragement @Aubrielle , much appreciated!

Aww poor K. Call the RSPCA 🤣 @SpanielsGalore

I’m trying to think of ways to entertain V since I can’t really let him do any decent physical exercise with his bad leg. I watched a video where someone had taught her spaniel to use one of the baby stacking ring toys (those things where it’s a pole and you put the donut shaped plastic rings on in size order). She started by teaching him to drop a ball into a wide bowl, then a smaller one, then a mug, then a small glass, so it got more precise each time. I thought great I can try and teach V to do that! He wouldn’t even pick the bloody ball up with his mouth. I spent literally 30 minutes trying to get him to do it and he was just pawing at me and getting frustrated 😂 For such a clever dog he can be really stupid sometimes…

Another reason to move North. 😁 (Although my friend lives in the Highlands and they have snow.)

@YorkshireFelix Well at least it kept him occupied for half an hour. 🙈 😂

I'd take deep snow anyday over what we have now @SpanielsGalore . Our weather station has been down -4.8 this morning and we're up a hill so it's treacherous. At least it's possible to walk in snow without slipping over. Given that Brie did fall when she slid on some ice yesterday, I'm not venturing out with her this morning. thankfully, she's okay, but am just not risking it.

Vinny is probably far too clever for that sort of "dog" stuff @YorkshireFelix Sometimes I find myself wishing we just could give them a book to read.

@Aubrielle Poor Brie. 😢 Glad she didn't injure herself. Sounds sensible not to risk walking her. Last thing you need is her straining a leg or pulling something.
My weather station is down, but tablet and phone both say it's -1 here. Ìt's crispy under foot, which makes a nice change from mud.

My phone currently says -3 and there's an ice warning in effect here until midday. We'll try to get out this afternoon.

Hello? Does anyone still watch this thread?
I’m posting here as everyone seems nice and friendly, I’ve only posted on dogshouse once before and got eaten alive for asking for some simple advice 😱.
I have a WCS who’s just turned two. He’s the light of my life, a dream in the house, generally well trained, but OMG! does he pull on the lead.
My partner and myself have spent hours and days and weeks trying to train it out of him, but he just won’t do it. He knows what heel is and will do it for a few steps, but is then off in a split second.
Yesterday I took him to the park, we had fun, lots of training, playing, retrieves etc. I took another route home and it was really slippy. I’m like Bambi on ice at the best of times, I ended up sat on a wall sobbing as I daren’t move, and I’m not usually so soft. To say dogs are usually in tune with your emotions, he didn’t give a flying f**k!
Please someone tell me that he will calm down eventually!!

@DislocatedShoulder we all migrated to the beyond adolescence thread somehow! If you'd rather join us there then do!

I have a two year old WCS too who is also the light of my life. They are the best dogs. I'm sorry to hear that you're having trouble with him on the lead. What have you tried? And what kind of lead/collar etc do you use? Have you worked/are you working with a trainer?

My girl isn't on the lead often so I am not the best adviser here but others have worked on it much more – @Nella68 @YorkshireFelix. My best advice, which applies to lots of things but definitely a lead walking session, is not to expect to be able to teach him anything before he's a) had a poo/wee b) had a run and got the top layer of his energy off. Can you drive to somewhere so he can get it out of his system and then try a session?

Hi. I think everyone migrated to the adult (Beyond Adolescence part 2) and the Puppy Support threads.
I have two working cockers. One is aged 4 years and the other is 15 months. But I can't help with on lead walking unfortunately. 🙈 Mine are hardly ever on lead, so I haven't worked on it.

My sprocker pulled like he was dragging a sled, with his chest to the floor. I'll try to explain what method I used with him. I used a long lead, maybe 7 foot. You only let four feet out and hold the extra three feet. As soon as he got to the end of the lead, you drop the spare three feet, say 'this way' and change direction. Gather the excess lead back up, so he's back on a short lead. Lots of praise and treats for loose lead walking. The theory is the dog never gets to the end of the lead and pulls, so learns not to pull. Sorry if that doesn't make sense. It's a lot easier watching a demonstration than trying to describe it.

What have you tried so far? Is he walked on a harness? Have you tried a harness with a front lead attachment? Or a double ended lead for more control? I'm not a fan of slip leads, but a head collar might be a good midde ground.

ETA - I was only complaining the other day that my dogs couldn't give a shit when I fell over in the woods. 😂 I say fell over. The 15 month old took me out.
Also, my 4 year old has recently started to walk nicely on a lead, so there may be hope in a few years time. 😳
I've had 4 WCS. One always pulled. One never did. The 4 year old now walks nicely, unless there is a distraction. The 15 month old pulls, but only weighs 8.5kg, so it is more manageable.

@DislocatedShoulder Hi, and welcome to the thread- it has been very quiet lately!
I’ve been in tears too so you are definitely not alone. My poodle cross is coming up to 2 and is 24kg, so is very strong. I have been pulled over on the ice/ down steps etc in the past, so loose lead walking is something that I have had to work on constantly over the last 2 years.

As @brushingboots and @SpanielsGalore have asked what equipment do you use to walk him?

My boy Midge wears a harness with a front attachment and for pavement walks, or when I want more control I attach a double ended lead to his collar and the front attachment point. His recall is still very much a work in progress so when I don’t need him to be close he has a long line attached and he runs free if there’s no one around or I’ll hold the end if too many dogs. Like @SpanielsGalore I do the ‘this way’ command.

When the longline is on he is free to sniff as much as he wants, and to roam around. When he’s on the short double ended lead then I don’t let him sniff as much (I found he would pull me in all directions trying to get to the smells). On the short lead I let him ‘go sniff’ where I choose and as a reward for close walking. It took a lot of work to get there but the vast majority of time he’s a pleasure to walk on pavement.

I like to have his front legs parallel with mine so I’ve spent a lot of time going backwards and forwards, so as soon as he goes ahead I’ll change direction. He’s pretty much conditioned now to change directions too without any lead pressure. This worked too when he was younger and prone to pull. If he started pulling to get to something he wanted I would change direction (this did involve some lead pressure). I would do this multiple times until he realised that if he pulled towards something he wasn’t going to get it. As soon as he stopped pulling I would allow him to go to the interesting place as a reward. I’m not going to lie. It’s pretty tedious doing this and it sometimes feels like you are not going anywhere, but it has paid off for us.

If we go anywhere new and exciting he still will pull but I’ll do all the things as above and he’ll eventually start listening. He’s much more responsive after he’s had a good initial sniff and a poo!

I’ve remembered another technique that I’ll employ if I want him to be close. I will count to three and give a treat on 3 (if he’s close). Dogs are good at pattern recognition so he soon got used to the 1, 2 count and was right beside me at 3.
I started by counting at every step, so the rewards were very frequent (every 3rd step). I’ll do it randomly now so even if he’s walking nicely, sometimes I’ll do the counting and rewarding. I also reward eye contact if he’s walking next to me.

Have you done any 1-1 sessions with a trainer?

I’ve just completed the Kennel Club silver award. Do you have any KC classes near you? They’re not just for puppies and at my class there’s a whole range of ages. They have lots of tips for loose lead walking. It’s been great watching the progression of the dogs at our class.

I hope some of my ideas might help. Good luck

Thanks for taking the time to reply 😊
@SpanielsGalore so there might be hope for the future! Hallelujah!
What have we tried? We once worked out what we’d spent on dog walking equipment and it was more than our monthly mortgage. We got into the cycle of awful walk; Google; buy whatever miracle product.
Every lead known to man. Several different harnesses, using the front loop doesn’t work, he perfected walking like a crab. I sort of prefer a harness because it stops the choking sounds, but he pulls even harder and is too much for my partner because she’s only tiny.
Halti/dogmatic he hated.
Slip lead he hangs himself and doesn’t care, so that was quickly dispensed with.
Figure of 8 he doesn’t mind at all, and walks ok on, but I’ve read too much and feel like a bad dog mum even though he’s quite happy, and actually seems less stressed.
I’ve not tried the extra bit of lead thing and will give it a go, but he’s so quick I think he’d make it to the end before I could turn.
He’s had extensive training and really is a good lad in every other respect. His gun dog trainer said we’d never achieve nice lead walking, a behaviourist said we would eventually if we were consistent.
We do let him have his poo first. Our local park is a 10 minute walk away, we don’t expect much on the way there. Then he gets an hour or so off lead running and doing gun dog stuff, but he’s just as bad on the way home.
There’s also other situations like going for a coffee or to the pub, he’s a little star while he’s there, but the walk from the car is horrible.
I think now it’s just time, but I’m beginning to feel a bit down about it if I’m honest.

@DislocatedShoulder I read a book by a gundog trainer once. They recommended teaching a dog to heel before ever attaching a lead. Then once the dog knows the heel position, attach the lead and tell them to heel. Dead simple, in theory.

I drive to walking places, so my dogs are only on lead for two minutes at the beginning and end of walks, so it's not something I have spent a lot of time on. I start off with good intentions, but I don't have the patience for it.

I did work on it with my sprocker, because he was so strong he could pull me over. Even my 6' 3" DS found it difficult to hold on to him. He's another one who would strangle himself on a slip lead rather than stop pulling. (I don't like them and only bought it because he had to be on lead in the garden for toilet trips, following an injury.)

Sorry we haven't been much help. Hopefully knowing it's a problem we all struggle with helps a little. It's not us. It's them! 🐕‍🦺🐕

Thank you @SpanielsGalore it does help x

@DislocatedShoulder Don’t feel down! They are sent to test us and he sounds lovely in all other ways. You have put in a lot of effort by the sounds of it – far more than most people.

Would you consider/would it be feasible to send him off for some residential training? Honestly, if I’d tried everything and it bothered me as much as it rightly bothers you, I’d look into it. Depending on whereabouts you are I can recommend one particularly excellent trainer who I’d send my dog to in a heartbeat if I needed to.

Personally I think it’s pretty outrageous of your gundog trainer to say that you’d never achieve nice lead walking. If mine had said that to me about any aspect of my dog’s training I’d have sacked her. All dogs are trainable, especially spaniels who, on the whole, actually want to please you.

I am not a trainer but if he’s yanking you even when he’s finished his walk I wonder if it’s a bit of over-stimulation. I wonder if that’s another way for you to look at it. Don’t see it as simply a lead walking issue but look beyond it to see what might be causing it. As you say, it’s not that he doesn’t know what to do but he won’t do it – so why won’t he do it?

And thank you to everyone else that has taken the time to reply x
We’ll get there eventually with any luck.
I think I was just hoping that someone would say that when he was a certain age everything would miraculously change… I can dream 🤣

Aw, thank you @brushingboots I have been tempted by residential, but I couldn’t do it to him. He’s never been away from us and is hardly ever left alone. I’m too flipping soft!
We live in York.
One thing I didn’t mention is the little sh!t walks perfectly to heel off lead.
Honestly, I could stamp my feet and tantrum at times. Not a good look for a 40 year old!!