Neighbour's puppy crying for hours at night

[JFDIYOLO]

I haven't seen him yet but the crying is awful. It sounds like a panic attack, desperate yelping howling breathless sounds that go on and on for ages until I assume he falls asleep.

My OH saw them the other day and they apologised for the noise saying they were doing something called crate training and they thought it should be done in a few weeks.

He was quiet for some days but it's happening again now.

He sounds desperately distressed and it's quite upsetting.

Anyone know what crate training and is it ok to do? How does it usually go?

We crate train but it definitely doesn’t involve leaving a distressed puppy to cry. That poor little pup, My heart is breaking. It’s not right at all to let a puppy cry like that.

Our neighbour got a new pup a few weeks back, and seeing as we are all detached, she's the other side of the road, for me to hear it - shows how much racket a pup can make

It lasted about a week

Now I never hear it, its still there, but hes settled into the routine

Crate training is putting a pup inside a crate at times when you dont want it to free roam around the house You put a bed one end, paper the other and a bowl of water. The pup cant wander . chew or make a mess, but has a comfortable bed, and somewhere to wee and pee if needed

How people use the crates depends. I am a person who puts the crate in my bedroom and as soon as the pup gets distressed, take it straight outside for toileting, then straight back to bed. Others leave in the crate - you have everything you need and I'll clean any mess up in the morning . For those that dont have private enclosed out side spaces, the second option is the only option

Basically their crate becomes their safe place, one where they choose to sleep and go to and a very safe place for them if children or elderly are visiting

Having a pup is very much like having a baby - it needs routine. Only imagine a twin being separated, being part of a litter for 8-10 weeks and now alone - its hard on them

If the puppy is that distressed it’s not crate training, it’s animal cruelty. It’s not okay and they should be ashamed of themselves and you should 100% speak up

Crate training done properly can work but this isn’t it. Leaving a puppy to cry is cruel. They don’t deserve a dog. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s much you can do.

It's absolutely appalling that this is considered an acceptable form of training, but unfortunately it is. Crating for hours on end is bad for a dog's mental and physical development, but has sadly become the norm. People are against battery hens or zoos, but seem to think it fine to keep a young puppy sitting in its own waste in a cage inside their home. This pup has been taken away from its mother and siblings and is now being left to cry in a small box from 10pm to 7am in the name of "training". How is this humane?

All our dogs (and we've had 9) have been free range from the first night with us. With our current pup, we've actually had two different neighbours comment that they never hear her, because she hardly ever makes a sound. Free range pups house train quickly and develop adult behaviours quite early. Ours have access to kichen and orangery at night. We've had no problems with soiling or chewing and no disturbed nights. One of us sleeps on the sofa for the first few nights pup is here and we use dog gates and keep doors open so pup can be heard and reassured.

(Name changed because I know from past experience that the pro-crate people will come out with the usual propaganda about how it needs to be done "properly" but some here will know who I am)

The second option is not the only option @suki1964 . Free roaming pups (using gates instead of crates) is also an option. Crating is a recent thing that came here from America.

Dogs Trust recommend crate training as do many other reputable organisations around the world.

Puppies cry. It may sound distressing to you but that doesn't mean the puppy is actually distressed. Young puppies don't like to be locked up when they want to play etc but they have to be taught discipline etc.

Maybe have a look online and educate yourself about crate training, puppy howling etc so you're less distressed about it, as a first step, before jumping to any conclusions.

I personally don't agree with crating a dog. My old lady is 9yrs old, I rehomed her last year and apparently she was always crated. So I bought one in case she wanted to have a little space of her own.

She point blank refuses to go in it, even with treats inside.

However, if someone comes to the door, I always take her into the kitchen first so she's out of the way. Oh my god, you would think I'm kicking her, beating her with barbed wire, dragging her in by her tail by the howls, cries, sobs, end of the world shes-being-tortured noises she makes. All.i say is 'come on, kitchen' and that's it. I'm surprised the RSPCA haven't visited yet!

But crate training seems to be the normal now. I don't like it. Dogs are so easy to train, they can be taught where is their space and where not to go. Imo they're too big of an animal to stick in a cage. Dogs used to have kennels in the garden and a whole garden to run about in. You don't put them in a wire box and expect them to be happy about it.

I’ve crate trained all my dogs. We do it slowly and gently and we absolutely would never leave our dogs to cry for hours on end. That’s cruel and unfair. Leaving a dog in distress is not healthy and is likely to cause long term issues.

We actually don’t crate them much once they’re older, toilet trained and have stopped eating the furniture but we always have a crate in the house and some would always choose to sleep in it.

Much like muzzle training, it’s a useful thing to do before you need it in case of illness, holidays etc so if they need to use the crate it’s already a positive thing for them.

One of our dogs in particular absolutely loved her crate and always headed for it through the day.

This is why we didn't crate train, our puppy became so upset we very quickly decided it wasn't for us.
She slept in bed with us 😂
I would speak to them and explain it's keeping you awake as the puppy sounds extremely distressed and you are concerned for its wellbeing. It sounds like they don't know what they are doing, poor dog.

Here here! 👏🏻

This 100%

Poor puppy has been taken away from its mother and littermates and is probably terrified. If neighbours must crate train the pup they should still be with pup. Shame on your neighbours!

They call it 'crate training' as it sounds more palatable than 'locking your dog in a cage' but that's what it is.

This 100%

My dogs are not crate trained and manage perfectly fine. Your neighbours need to get off their lazy arses and into a proper routine. How anyone can listen to that level of distress and be ok with it is beyond me.

This Is what happens when people take training advice from the internet with no context for their dog. What makes it worse is the sea of online voices* to accompany that particular method as the best and only method.

If the puppy puts up a bit of a protest at being told bedtime in its crate, and cries a bit then settles quickly after - all fine.

If a puppy is this distressed, they need to stop and reconsider doing it a different way. Either looking at a different way of implementing it or a different set up all together.

You are right to be concerned.

(* online voices - unqualified trainers who are just dog owners chiming in with anecdotes, framed as advice for everyone's dog based on their one dog)

You need to work with the dog infront of you, not what the internet assumes the dog in front of you to be.

I loathe this. It's not a crate, it's a cage. It's shut in and it's extremely cruel. Poor pup, so utterly traumatic for it.

Very true. Dogs are unique so training has to be adaptable.

Additionally, sounds of discomfort do not always equal abuse.

Has to be a measured view here and I have seen far too many suggest 'concern' when really they just want to justify abuse so that they don't feel annoyed or inconvienienced.

This is why I waited until I had a detached house before having a dog. The proximity of homes make everything annoying.

It’s incredibly cruel and I would speak to my neighbour and ask them to re consider as clearly it isn’t working.
Poor little thing, the sane people that let their newborns scream alone in their cots for hours. Barbaric in this day and age.

Attitudes have (thankfully) changed with puppy training now, and leaving them to cry isn’t what’s recommended. Poor thing has been taken away from everything it’s ever known, this is why they cry.

If it were me I’d buy the book easy peasy puppy squeazy and pop it round to say a friend had lent it to you (it’s £4 on Amazon).

Agree @marshmallowfinder yep, it's a cage. We call it a crate to make ourselves feel better. The wording doesn't matter to the dog though!

I did crate train my 13 week old in the kitchen for her first month at home. I got rid of it after a month or so as I just didn't like it. She was fine with it - a protest whine and a bark and by the time I'd climbed into my bed upstairs she had settled quietly. But it's a cage. I also noticed during the day she sleeps flat out with her legs straight, not curled up.

Instead I had a pull out child barrier installed between the kitchen/diner and the rest of the house. Still contained her, but she could move and walk about, do that weird stretch walk thing she does, choose the mat, the floor, the blanket, do a vigorous full body shake without clocking the sides of the cage (sorry- crate)

Crate training is a huge thing in the US. I work for an American company and people crate their dogs all the time for owner convenience, not just at night. 😢

I really don't understand this at all.

Are you suggesting we all know better than Dogs Trust and RSPCA?

Not at all. I'm just saying having taken to the online advice as gospel as a diligent first time owner looking to do the right thing , it didn't feel right for my particular dog, and I had the wherewithal to reconsider.

The RSPCA and Dogs Trust have never met my dog.

Yes, I agree with you there. I didn't find it suitable for my dogs, either.

But, many people rely on these professional organisations who are experts in dog welfare, to guide and both of these recommend crate training.

I would hate to think that someone with really good intentions, following reputable advice, is accused of abuse because of a puppy howling as puppies do.

It doesn't sit right with me to jump to conclusions without fact. It's not fair on the owners or the dog.

Crates weren’t a thing, when we had our first pup, I can’t see why they are necessary tbh.

@FluffyWabbit considering both those charities give not only some downright terrible advice but actually dangerous advice - including over diets and training puppies - and have a long and rather sordid history of rehoming dangerous dogs without disclosing the dogs bite history (including to people with children) I wouldn’t believe anything they say.

Anyone who thinks the advice or practices of either of those charities should be listened to probably isn’t fit to have a pet - there’s a degree of critical thinking required for pet ownership, and people blindly believing the nonsense these charities trot out when it’s clearly nonsense probably doesn’t have the brain capacity for a chinchilla let alone a dog.

I’m sure people will take offence to the above, but honestly some of their information is so downright dangerous it is quite concerning anyone could believe it. And let’s not forget they have both been rehoming XL bullies under the guise of ‘mixed breed’ and describing severe behavioural issues as ‘previous owners didn’t understand his quirks, he just needs some love’- so yeah, really swell charities we should listen to.