Change food? Again? Very Loose stools

[IchLiebeDeutscheSchaferhunde]

Would like your thoughts please.

Rescue GSD, owned for 4 months.
Arrived on a low protein chicken kibble, had good first poo, and then loose rest of time.

Vet recommended no chicken as common GSD intolerance - so slowly moved over to a 26% protein duck and salmon 'sensitive' kibble.

No real difference to begin with but now 2 months into full new food it is definitely worse. No nicely formed poo, but not diarrhea as such because no urgency, just goes on walks a normal amount - just very loose.

Vet prescribed probiotics, still no better, so now considering another food change.

Dog has been wormed, if anything probably worse since the worming - normally the poo doesn't smell offensive (been a little since the probiotic) and no blood not watery, last test sample showed no reason for it. (no history, but not likely to be an import dog)

I am his only source of food.

I don't wish to do raw (until we have tried other options)

Would love your thoughts.

Sorry to hear of your dog's digestive problems.

We have a giant breed that is prone to sensitivities and we've always found that lamb based kibbles suit them better than anything poultry or fish based. Our current girl (16 months) was very loose on the sensitive salmon puppy food but now we have her on lamb her poo is perfect.

She's currently on Essentials and Lifestage, but we alternate those with Calibra large breed and Millies Wolfheart Countryside mix. She's doing well on all of them.

I hope you can find something that will suit your dog better than the current food but it may be trial and error for a while until you get on track.

Thank you, I think I just needed to talk it through so it is really helpful to read your reply.
Vet is keen to try another food but can't recommend any brands other than the one they sell (and he quietly said he doesn't recommend that) I will look into the ones you suggest.

It's all been a bit of a shock, my previous dog had a stomach of iron.

My dog can't tolerate chicken or high fat. He hasn't been diagnosed with ibd (had blood tests) but has symptoms of it. If we keep fat content of food under 10% he is much better. We feed burns pork and potato. It's got crap ratings on aadf but it really works for us and we had been through so many foods and dog was losing a lot of weight

I’d also recommend Millie’s Wolfheart, if you give them a call they’ll be able to make best suggestions. Our dogs do really well on it.

I know some vets recommend chappie tinned dog food when a dog has been unwell, but not tried it myself.

Also, take a look on Healthful Pets website as there maybe some supplement for dogs with sensitive stomachs. Pumpkin puree is supposed to be good and we’ve just bought some pumpkin powder for one of our dogs that can get an upset stomach at times

I do think look at Millies Wolfheart website first
https://www.millieswolfheart.co.uk/
They do a huge number of flavours with all different protein levels, so it is highly likely that they will have something to suit your dog. They offer generous trial size bags of every flavour so that is a good starting point - I ordered three flavours for my pup to try before getting a larger bag.

I’m another one who would recommend Millie’s. My 2 are both quite sensitive digestion wise and do really well on it. Although it’s not cheap, I feed significantly less than I did with a cheaper food.

How much are you feeding? I had a rescue who I started on the food the rescue fed him. He had loose stools and was very underweight as he had been found as a stray. I cut his food by half and he promptly began to gain weight and the stool problem resolved itself

Has your vet tested for Giardia? My rescue had stomach issues and after a few weeks it wasn’t improving and it turned out he had Giardia. Two courses of antibiotics cleared it. However he can’t tolerate chicken, so after trying various things he is now on a White Fish Kibble and Wet Food Topper, fish or duck based.

Ordering samples is a good idea- I've been on the Millie's site and it looks good. Thanks

@BrownOwlknowsbest mine was a stray but evidently loved as he was a little fat when found. He has lost a few kg by design over the last eight months and is now at ideal weight and has maintained for the last six weeks. So it doesn't seem to affect his weight, but think it is different when a dog hasn't been underweight - I've read that overfeeding can be dreadful for underweight dogs.

This sounds a lot like stress to me. 4 months isn't long for a rescue, especially a GSD.

Don't worry about the raw thing, there is little to no scientific evidence to support it being any better than 'normal' food.

Have a look at https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/

This is a good resource of the makeup of the food.

Also https://www.ukpetfood.org/

I moved my rescue lab from raw to Orijen fish and it has been great. He is allergic to chicken which is awkward.

Also, look at things in the home. Where does the dog sleep? Does it seem stressed?

Mine can't do chicken or duck.

This one seems to suit all my dogs and they like it
https://www.petsathome.com/product/beta-sensitive-dry-adult-dog-food-salmon-and-rice/P3671

Honestly I would go raw. But if you’re not willing to try that then I would go down the road of something along the lines of butternut box. Stick to one protein initially (ideally beef) and see how that goes. I would also give bone broth. Make it at home buy a marrow bone from the butcher and slow cook in water and a splash of apple cider vinegar for 36hrs. Feed 100-200ml a day.

Avoid all poultry and all kibble.

@HappiestSleeping I have thought stress could be a factor, but it is getting worse not better. He was in kennels until I took him, and as soon as he was home it was clear he had been in a home before.
I certainly can not rule out stress but he just doesn't show any of the stress markers I would expect.

Sleeps by choice on a chair in the bedroom for the first hour or so and then moves to the tile floor in the hallway - have night cameras and he always seems settled. Comes back to the chair about an hour before we get up. Has multiple beds that he uses in the day- had planned to crate train but he has never had a problem settling or being left. (Again I think someone loved him enough to make him confident being left- sad really)

@HappiestSleeping thanks for the links, I will have a look. I certainly am not convinced about raw.

@businessflop25 I'm sorry but the moment someone recommends ACV I tend to lose faith.

Do you play with him a lot? And groom him? Both are really good ways to build a bond.

Yes, I'm all in. I'm hand feeding, playing, training, walking, grooming, I've had rescues all my life but he has so far been the easiest, again because it appears his pre stray life wasn't bad (I've had broken dogs and scared dogs but he just isn't like that)

I don't actually need to leave him but have been inventing things to do without him, as I want to maintain his ability to be left alone- he is my shadow when I am with him, but when I leave he curls up on his bed and sleeps until I return.

(Just to be clear he isn't a miracle dog - still have loads to work on - but normal young dog issues that I would expect from any dog, rather than rescue issues.)

He sounds lovely @IchLiebeDeutscheSchaferhunde ❤

Thanks he is. He is the first dog where I haven't had the 'WTF have I done' moment - I mean I'm sure it will come but it just feels like he has always been here.

He was chipped but never registered- I think it shouldn't be allowed to put a blank chip in a dog.

Fwiw Millie's ran through my dog. We tried several kinds. In hindsight I think it was that fat content.

We are on a building up diet now with the burns but once mine hits another 2kg of weight I am tempted to try their low fat options.

I think the gardia check is a good call though especially as he was a stray.

Obviously not every food will suit every dog @Stripeysockspots
Essentials do a low fat option https://essentialfoodsgb.co.uk/products/2-5kg-essential-contour that may be of interest to you and @IchLiebeDeutscheSchaferhunde

I should just add that initially my girl wasn't getting along with Millies either - she was doing 4 poos a day, and I posted about it on The Adolescent Support Thread here on mn. She had been started on a grain heavy puppy food by her breeder, and obviously MW is much richer. A couple of people here wondered if I was giving her too much, so I reduced the recommended amount by a third and now she's doing really well on it; back to 2 firm poos daily. It is surprising how little they need with MW, even a giant breed. She has MW for breakfast and supper, but lunch & dinner is Essentials/Calibra/Lifestage.

We use "years" dog food. It's the highest rated UK dog food and is made with quinoa as its base. Sorted out my dog's scabby and itchy skin completely. It's fresh but not raw, and doesn't need to be stored in the fridge until it's open.

Years.com
Fresh Dog Food Subscription & Delivery – Years.com https://share.google/DJkRgPMpFtne22eVA

i would try Chappies,
recommended for digestive issues

Huh? What? What the fuck is ACV? I never recommended anything apart from broth, butternut box and sticking to one non poultry or pork protein. 🧐
I don’t see how any of that is controversial?

I have almost 5 years of experience dealing with a tricky foreign rescue dog and their tricky gut and am currently studying dog nutrition but you do you!

Edited to add
If you’re talking about apple cider vinegar in the broth it’s part of the ingredients. Used to raise the PH of the broth to extend the life of the broth and an increase the nutrient extraction from the bones. Other options like lemon juice or citric acid which would be used in human food are not options as they are toxic to dogs. I’m not making any claims about apple cider vinegar and its health benefits or lack of them. It’s purely a splash in a 5 litre pot of broth!

i presume acv is apple cider vinegar

Sorry to jump on this thread OP - I have a friend that has a greyhound who has a very sensitive stomach and all they did was switch to grain free and it sorted it out over night. This wasn’t a suggestion to you of course as you’ve had some good advice already and clearly have a lot more experience with dogs than I do (8 weeks in to owning my first) I just wanted to ask what the deal was with grain in dog food and why it seems to be a better option to switch to grain free.

My pup has been on the same food since I got him and recently has had slightly runnier poos than normal but not every single one 🤷‍♀️