Change food? Again? Very Loose stools

[IchLiebeDeutscheSchaferhunde]

Would like your thoughts please.

Rescue GSD, owned for 4 months.
Arrived on a low protein chicken kibble, had good first poo, and then loose rest of time.

Vet recommended no chicken as common GSD intolerance - so slowly moved over to a 26% protein duck and salmon 'sensitive' kibble.

No real difference to begin with but now 2 months into full new food it is definitely worse. No nicely formed poo, but not diarrhea as such because no urgency, just goes on walks a normal amount - just very loose.

Vet prescribed probiotics, still no better, so now considering another food change.

Dog has been wormed, if anything probably worse since the worming - normally the poo doesn't smell offensive (been a little since the probiotic) and no blood not watery, last test sample showed no reason for it. (no history, but not likely to be an import dog)

I am his only source of food.

I don't wish to do raw (until we have tried other options)

Would love your thoughts.

My GSD was similar, we tried all sorts of different foods. In the end it turned out to be the protein content. We switched on the advice to our trainer to Burns (just the original was fine but they do a sensitive as well, and that solved it. He's been on it since and is 9 years old now.
https://burnspet.co.uk/dog-food-type/dry-dog-food/?srsltid=AfmBOoooF9ob9AuWYEYM65yLqgO9OzUd9c6pcyS6XgpXh4NT2kyi9J6E

These threads make me really sad. If you’re not prepared to give your dogs a decent nutritional diet not processed crap then why have them?
Fresh is best always!

We should be doing better for our animals than processed crap!

Please enlighten us on your daily fresh recipes. We are always keen to learn from those more knowledgeable.

@CatsorDogsrule - you did better than me with the Millies Wolfheart. I ended up giving nearly 10kg away after my fussy lab refused to eat it.

Please share your scientific research on this.

Thanks that's really interesting - I moved to the best chicken free higher protein kibble I could get locally - the fact he was a little fat when picked up by the dog warden, but remained unclaimed with no microchip details probably indicates he wasn't fed on the best food. I can get Burns locally (and it has a GSD on the packet!)

@TheTruthAndTheWell I did it in reverse - it is so weird having a sensitive dog after a cast iron stomach dog.

@CatsorDogsrule that is interesting about MW- I wonder if it is like washing powder (bear with me) when I get the small packets it smells divine and seems to wash well- when I buy the massive family packs there is no smell at all

Ok today mine had Turkey and Salmon raw food 80-10-10. They also had 100ml of alpaca bone broth, carrot, sweet potato & butternut squash mash and a handful of peas.
Tomorrow they will have beef mince, chicken wings and sprats and more of the same veg. They will have beef broth.

Happy?

Lol! There is tons of research on why fresh food is better for you than processed crap! The same applies to dogs!
You wouldn’t feed a child ultra processed food for every meal would you? Or perhaps your the type who would? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Well I tried fresh food for ages with mine. Not only was it like rocket fuel, his poo was totally liquid. Chicken wasn’t so bad but he’s totally intolerant to beef and lamb.

https://www.bigdogpetfoods.com/guides/the-impact-of-diet-on-the-canine-microbiome#:~:text=Another%20study%20compared%20the%20gut,aspects%20of%20feeding%20our%20dogs

Was that truly fresh, as you didn't share the recipes? Surely you don't feed commercial frozen products - shudder.

How do you source fresh alpaca bones to make the fresh broth?

I’m happy to try and help if you would like me to. It can be a real case of trial and error to see what works. One of mine is very tricky to keep their tummy happy. She cannot tolerate lamb at all nor much pork. It probably took around 18 months for everything to settle down. But she couldn’t tolerate kibble at all. Even now she can’t have more than a handful or so a week.

I buy frozen meat from a pet food butcher locally. Yes I purchased the alpaca bones directly from them. All raw meat ideally should be frozen before being fed to kill any parasites.

There is a world of difference between minced and frozen raw meat and heavily processed dry kibble. If you can’t see that then I can’t help you!

The first symptom of my dogs pacreatitis was loose stools .

I do get the washing powder analogy, but for me, washing powder in the big box still smells lovely when you open it, but when you use it, the fragrance in the washed laundry is simply disappointing.

With the MW, the "big boxes"/ bags just smelt dull or stale immediately upon opening, and were no comparison to the enticing, aromatic samples. It really felt like a bait and switch scenario.

I never said I buy heavily processed dry kibble and I don't need your help to understand differences between heavily processed and fresh food.

You snootily said "fresh is best always", but now you say you feed defrosted frozen raw, and buy frozen ingredients, which doesn't meet the definition of fresh - "food that is not preserved by canning or dehydration or freezing or smoking"

It's like the classic episode of Kitchen Nightmares where the restauranteur is trying to convince Gordon Ramsey that the frozen and defrosted food he's serving is fresh. "It's Fresh-frozen!" (IYKYK).

Good for you and your dogs that you feed defrosted raw, long may they thrive. When I cook my dogs fresh food, I use fresh ingredients. When I feed them cold-pressed, or cooked foods preserved by freezing, I do so with love and without guilt.

BTW, how helpful do you consider it to be preaching about "fresh is best", while not actually practicing it yourself as you feed defrosted frozen raw, on a thread when OP specifically said they weren't currently considering raw food?

Raw dog food HAS TO BE FROZEN you cannot feed it fresh! So yes when they have raw food it will have been frozen first. The vegetables that I cooked them today were fresh. The mince they will be fed tomorrow will be lightly cooked FRESH mince.
If you knew the slightest thing about food and cooking you would know the reason GR knew the difference between fresh and frozen food - it’s about TEXTURE not nutritional value! Freezing does not significantly alter the nutritional value of food. Cooking does. Storing fresh food does. Dehydrating does. Doing fuck knows what to turn it into kibble absolutely does!
So actually your point is irrelevant! The nutritional value of the food is what is important. Not the texture. so actually yes I am doing what is nutritionally best for my animals!
And there are plenty of options beyond raw food if the Op wants to feed a better diet to her dog. Bu they clearly do not. It’s convenience over what is best for their animal.

My dog can’t have chicken and it’s really hard to find food that doesn’t have chicken in it.

We’ve just started using Wainwrights superfoods a as of this seems to be okay at the moment…

One of the big issues is that the labelling of ingredients is not what we have come to expect. It’s not the same as for human grade foods. So if a bag has labelled meat derivatives on the ingredients list that could literally mean anything. So even a bag of beef food with no mention of chicken on the ingredients list could still have chicken in. And more often than not does because chicken is cheap.
So avoiding certain meats or certain ingredients is really tricky.

@businessflop25 such a shame you didn’t feel that you could contribute in the spirit of the thread. You seem to have some knowledge, but are unable to impart it without being hostile. So it won’t be well received.

Anyway, I’m off to hunt alpacas in the wild to make my fresh alpaca bone broth.

You were initially misleading or disingenuous, as you didn't say that you fed raw, you only revealed this later. You said that " fresh is best", which at least one other poster and I were asking clarification on.

I do agree that fresh, as in freshly cooked with fresh ingredients, is likely the best options, but by definition previously frozen food is absolutely not fresh.

Those qualified to have an opinion do not agree that raw is categorically best. Many do, but many, including my vets, don't.

Where did I argue about the nutritional value or texture of frozen raw vs fresh vs kibble? I simply asked about your "fresh is best" recipes. You then listed a lot of foods, which only upon further questioning you finally revealed they were frozen, not fresh foods.

Had you honestly said in your initial post that you fed frozen, raw foods, I'd have seen your sanctimonious post and passed by it without comment.

@CatsorDogsruleI am qualified to have an opinion 😂 and every single vet who has actually studied canine nutrition beyond the 1 &1/2 days they do at vet school also support raw feeding.
You asked for recipes so I gave you more details on what I am feeding. Today yes it was at least partially raw tomorrow it will be cooked as I told you.
Oh and actually I made it clear I felt raw feeding was best in my first post on this thread. The Op also said they were not interested in raw feeding which is why I focused on FRESH food. So I can hardly be called disingenuous thanks!
You can shut your eyes and put your fingers in your ears about dog nutrition all you want - it’s your dog who will suffer the consequences even if you do not realise it. It’s also you who will potentially end up paying the price in vets fees - again your choice.

I did. And was ridiculed and disbelieved from my first post onwards! After that I gave up.

@businessflop25 I have yet to meet a vet who agrees with raw feeding. This is the information given out by Edinburgh vet school.

And of course their information couldn’t possibly be influenced by their financial partnerships with the likes of Hills, Royal Canine and Purina could they 🧐
You have pretty much proved my point!

Independent vets not influenced by big corps are far better to advise.
https://holisticvet.co.uk/index.php/holisticvet-raw-food-preparation-tips/

The science is catching up. There are plenty of studies in progress just now. Including one I’m personally involved in. But it will be some time before the results are confirmed and peer reviewed.