Downsides of buying a trained puppy/dog?

[GreenDragonisLoose]

I'm looking into buying a ready-trained young labrador, rather than a puppy and training it myself.

So you pick the sex, traits that you want, and it comes toilet trained, with recall, house manners etc.

Any downsides to this? Seems too good to be true so I must be missing something?!

I’ve just googled for companies like this and can’t find anything (not that I would get a dog like this) so seems really dodgy

No bark, pee free, reduced poop, low chew, controlled moult, self cleaning teeth/ears/anal glands... I'm sure that whatever you ask for, they can provide it 😏

@crumblingschools it is dodgy.

Unless it’s gundog puppies bred to work, (I.e go out on shoots), or special protection dogs (which let’s be frank, no one really needs), it’s a massive scam.

And if it’s gundog puppies for shoots etc, then 99% of the population have no business buying them anyway (and the proper kennels that do this, do not sell to random people).

It’s the new, rip-off, version of a puppy farm. Instead of paying £2K for a defective dog, you’re paying £5-£7K

Your googling skills have let you down.

Cleestangate Gundogs
Riverggins
Hillside Paws for Life
Glasybont Gundogs
Vislor
Ravenkeeper Trained Dogs
Bournepark Gundogs
Mordor Gundogs

The list goes on.

They typically keep the dogs until 8 months old and sell them for around £8000.

I'm sure !

The downside might be that the dog has started it's life in traumatic circumstances or is used to being with large numbers of other dogs. It might go on to develop separation anxiety, fear reactive aggression.
Training is no different to bringing up children...it's the relationships which count when you "bring up" children not the actual training itself. You can't just pay someone to potty train, sleep train, inculcate speech, literacy, civilised values, and expect to get a member of the family at the end. They start being a member of the family when you start doing the WORK of making them one.

These are working dogs I'm assuming to do working dog things, and not be pets.

But what is the point of paying all this money for what is no better than a rescue dog, and in fact might be considerably worse - you can get dogs as a pp said, that are "trained" but need a home and what is more genuinely assessed by the rescue, compared to someone who is selling you a product and evidently cares very little about the dog and the home it goes to.

Not all of them @Coffeeishot
Try put the names into google and taking a look at the websites.

Anyone who does that, looks at the dogs and decides they want to buy a dog from one of these establishments has got something very wrong with them imo.

A lot of them will train for pet homes as well. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is a thing.

Yes! Here's one – https://spearswms.com/luxury/art-culture/a-chinwag-with-the-man-who-trains-dogs-for-the-worlds-super-rich/

And the other is in this month's copy of The Field. It's not online yet though I found the first par here. Otherwise available in most places/on Readly if you are subscribed.
https://www.magzter.com/stories/fishing-hunting/The-Field/THE-ENVY-OF-THE-WORLD?srsltid=AfmBOorFtdzeSy6p-7ZqXYOC7WSdIdHF7-cGwdnRewilcIx22siVo4tT

If you have one of his dogs, they are indeed wonderful! How lovely.

But presumably they'll all be kennel dogs, so you'd still have a lot of work to get them settled as an indoor pet, no matter what claims were made. I have seen this with older LGD puppies that have been kept in a pen outside - it is very difficult to turn them into a happy house pet, and often ends with them being rehomed. It's so much simpler to get a 9 or 10 week old puppy from an established and recommended breeder.

Trained to work if that's what the owner wants, yes. But primarily they are 'working pets' – working-line dogs that can do both, ie the perfect dog in my view. A dog that can pick up on a shoot and then chill at home.

Edit: that was meant to quote@Coffeeishot

Exactly. One of our labs is an assistance dog. She has a huge working drive when she's 'on' but is a real couch potato when she's off, which is perfect.

Respectfully @LandSharksAnonymous (and I use that in the true sense, not the 'pretending not to be rude' sense) the places that I know of that do this are not rip-off versions of puppy farms, and sadly £7k won’t cut it either – and the rest!

There seems to be some general confusion about all of this. I’m sure there are some dodgy places that promise the earth but all of the kennels I know, as a writer on (among other things) gundogs, fieldsports and beyond, do an amazing job with the fully-trained dogs they produce. They’re not runts or ‘defective’. They’re not broken. They’re brand-new puppies, fresh from mum like any other well-bred dogs. They have pet life experience, working life experience, they take turns living in the house so they’re not ‘kennel dogs’, they do real-world socialisation, they go in the car, to the pub, out on shoots, get handled by kids etc etc. At Mordor they film the puppies’ journeys so you can literally see it – on Youtube and on Instagram.

I have been up to Mordor and asked a lot of questions, and I have interviewed owners of Mordor fully-trained dogs too. The dogs adapt super quickly to their new homes, and their owners have life-long support. I’m not doing his PR for him because he definitely does not need that but I do feel obliged to explain the process a bit.

I know someone else not mentioned on @Lougle’s list who does this. She’s a wonderful trainer, she breeds various different gundog breeds from her established lines and has both a fully-trained and a part-trained programme now where you can have a pup from a litter and she keeps it to train until whatever age/level agreed. You get the kind of dog you want from her – you can choose what kind of training they get, and are fully involved with the process along with her. Her dogs are extraordinary and the set-up is lovely.

Would I get a fully-trained one from her or anyone else? No! But that’s not because the dogs I know from these kennels aren’t amazing, it’s just because I enjoy training my dog myself. I'd have one of their pups though, for sure. If I had the money for a Mordor (say) spaniel and I was a shipping magnate or an oil tycoon without much free time to train a dog, I’d get one, sure! But I’m not and I do have time, which is why I have a two-year-old cocker that I’ve trained myself. Is she to the same standard? No, because I’m not a trainer – but she is decent.

Oh ok fair enough, it sounds like a conveyer belt of puppies to order !

As I said before, getting an older partially trained puppy or young dog isn't always a bad thing.

My first dog was a rescue and as a result partially trained- I missed out on the bitey, poopy puppy stage! She was house trained and had ok recall, could sit wait and walk to heel off lead . But having already lost a home was also very clingy and (notably) had an dislike of men.
Having had a few puppies since, I get the appeal!
I think if paying good money for a partially trained dog, OP should get lifetime support from the trainer, same as you would get from a 5* breeder.
But therein lies the problem, it's like rocking horse shit, and often withdrawn a few years down the line- even for 5* puppy breeders.

@brushingboots but aren’t they training them for some sort of ‘work’ even if they are happy to snuggle up on the sofa too. Surely they don’t just train them for someone who can’t be arsed to put the work in themselves, as I assume they will need to carry on that work once they have the dog. They are going to have a dog that needs stimulation which they won’t just get from a walk a day.

There's no mystery to it. It is just a money-making scheme.

@crumblingschools Yes, sure – if that’s what you’ve asked for/that’s the arrangement you’ve got.

Let’s be honest though, these kennels are not selling puppies to the type of person who thinks one walk a day is enough – and quite rightly. No one with a working-line dog (or otherwise) should take that attitude in my view, but that’s by the by.

Just looked up one of those websites that is not just specifically for training gundogs. Slightly concerning they have a variety of breeds for sale. There is an advert for a cavalier (although now sold). Passed its foundation training. You could pay £7000 for it to have additional training to go to cafes, parks etc. Not sure why that wouldn’t be included in foundation training. No mention of parents or what health checks have been done. You’d be a fool to pay that sort of money

@crumblingschools I agree you would – I'm only talking about a few gundog breeder-trainers. I don't know anyone that does it with non-gundog types.

And on the same website they list the breeds that they offer as puppies (so leaving at 8 weeks and not advanced trained). They list 13 breeds! And if there is a specific breed you are interested in they will see what puppies they have.

I mean thats just rows and rows of birthing pens isn't it ?

@brushingboots I think we spoke at cross-purposes to say the same thing!

I have several near me. Only one specialises in gundogs (and by that I mean bred to work, rather than just be pets) - and they can be family pets at the same time. Would I buy a puppy from them? No. I have no need for a working dog. Can I see why people who do want working dogs get one? God yes. But, the thing with them is they only sell to people who will work their dog - they wouldn't dream of selling to me (for example). And they 100% shouldn't be selling to people like me.

But, the rest (and sadly the vast majority), let's just say they might as well have neon sign over the top proclaiming them to be puppy farms! They bill them as 'gundogs' (which technically they are). But they have 3-4 breeds at anyone time and at least 2-3 litters. Snazzy website which goes on about their qualifications as trainers and how they love their dogs etc. I could walk up tomorrow and they'd sell me any dog I wanted - as long as I could pay. And I think that's what most people are talking about.

Sadly, it is becoming the new 'puppy farm' in that people think that because they are getting a trained dog (as they used to with designer doodles) it's going to be a perfect, healthy, pet and that's just very often not the case.

Yes, there are a few breeders who are worth going to - but as with many, the vast majority (not-all) are just con-artists from what I've seen.