What dog do we want?

[WillowPups]

My boyfriend and I are looking at getting our first dog together. We have recently moved into a flat with a garden and our work schedules now align in a way that I think this would be the perfect time if any.
I finish work at 4pm-5pm, and my boyfriend starts at 2pm, so they will only ever be alone for 3 hours tops.
Ideally, I would give them a 30ish minute walk in the morning, then leave them with a kong with my boyfriend once I leave for work, my partner will then walk them again around 12, probably for a big run about for around 45mins-1hour, then leave them with another kong when he leaves. Then once I return home from work, we will go on another long walk (there are tons of lovely walks around here). A training session in the evening, and dinner on a snuffle mat before bed.
Basically, a dog who enjoys their exercise yet will happily snuggle with my boyfriend in bed once we get home, willing to be trained and likely to be social with friends dogs.
I work with dogs, so I have lots of experience with them however I want to make sure we do this right.
We are open to adopting.

cocker spaniel

Hounds. They love their walks but equally just chill out and sleep. If you’re considering rescuing then lurchers are often overlooked.

Its not always about the size of a dog with the space you have, lots of smaller dogs have high exercise requirements which people don’t realise.

"Ideally" doesn't really work with dogs. This will sound harsh, but how realistic is that the dog will get that every day?

Also, leaving a dog with a 'kong' is not good dog ownership - things like kong's should be used as a treat. They are not an alternative to proper training, socialisation, company or stimulation for a dog. Ultimately, a dog isn't going to be happy if the only interaction they get is walks and then training in the evening - because that's what you are offering. Walk. Kong. Walk. Kong. Walk. Social interaction.

I realise how harsh I sound, but the fact is being walked three times a day is great but if you and your boyfriend genuinely believe a kong is a viable option multiple times a day to attention and stimulation, then you're not ready for a dog. Kongs = food = energy.

Dogs don't fit into neat 'walk, kong, walk, kong, walk, snuggle/training' bubbles. Your life needs to revolve around them for it to work - particularly with a puppy.
If you're keen to go down this route, I would recommend a Greyhound rescue.

Also, Gundogs do not belong in flats (to the PP recommending cocker spaniels...) and they definitely do not do well left alone with a kong to stimulate them for hours a day - that's why so many end up in rescues (poor training, stimulation, socialisation and bought by incompetent owners).

What would you prefer us to do when they have to be left for a couple of hours in between us going to work/coming home? A kong with the same meat concoction they’d be having regardless (literally just some high quality wet food mashed into a Kong then frozen!) is going to provide them with a distraction and something to work on whilst we are away. I don’t really understand how that’s in place of connection and stimulation? 3 walks a day, companionship all day everyday except for 2-3 hours and someone to snuggle up with in bed in the mornings doesn’t sound like a bad life to me.

’definitely do not do well left alone with a kong to stimulate them for hours a day’
So what do you recommend?

What is your daily routine with your dogs?

By all means give some meals in a Kong, but I honestly don't think they need to be given as distraction. A dog that is exercised and stimulated should relax happily at home without once they're settled.

Having said that, I think the above poster is being overly harsh, nothing in your schedule suggests they're being given as an alternative to walks, training and socialisation. And as long as whatever is in the Kong is accounted for I'm their total food allowance the food = energy thing is immaterial.

A dog that is anxious about being left alone won't be distracted by a Kong anyhow.

I think your schedule sounds fine for an older dog, but wouldn't work for a puppy.

You won’t be able to leave any dog for that long for sone time. Puppy probably more than a year, rescue as long as it takes. So you’ll need to factor in care whilst you are building the time up.

I finish work at 4pm-5pm, and my boyfriend starts at 2pm, so they will only ever be alone for 3 hours tops.

But it would be 3 hours tops because you need to get to and from work. Unless you both work from home. Not saying having a dog (maybe a pair?) couldn't work for you all but it would need to be an adult dog, rather than a pup, and you need to plan for the unexpected rather than best case scenario.
Also, I don't know if you own or rent but it's very hard to find a rental that will accept pets, even if your current landlord does, your next one probably won't. Not likely to be an issue if you own your home of course.
What's your job with dogs?

Definitely open to older dogs, that is what we’re mostly looking at. Young enough to still have the motivation to want to learn and please, but not too young.
I’m not too sure why people are acting as if I’ve said we will be leaving it for 8 hours plus a day!

That set up sounds fine. I'd have said a spaniel too.

I would love a spaniel.

You're going to be looking at a rescue dog - puppies are going to take a lot longer to fit into your work plans - and be open to different breeds or crossbreeds depending on what is available at your local rescues as there could well be some curveballs who would fit into your lifestyle as every individual is different.

You do need to consider the what-ifs too. It will take potentially several months of settling in and building up time before you can leave the dog for as long as you need to. Will your work be flexible if the dog is unwell and someone needs to be at home with the dog? If one of you needs to go away on a work trip will someone else be able to step in to help with the dog?

I have a PomChi who adopted us pretty much when her previous owners couldn't keep her anymore, she is great in terms of cuddling with us, but is dog-reactive and has pretty bad separation anxiety. She's only happy when she can see me (my husband is the spare human), and it's rare for me to be allowed to go for a wee on my own lol. Fortunately I primarily work from home, or she can come to the office with me. There will be other Pom or Spitz type dogs that have less of a traumatised backstory that mine has that could fit into your lifestyle though. I saw this guy online yesterday and I'm a bit in love with him www.dogstrust.org.uk/rehoming/dogs/japanese-spitz/3546546

Dogs that are happy and have all their needs met, don't need kongs to distract them. That's my point. You're focussing a lot on kongs and snuffle mats...but dogs don't actually need that. Not if you're giving them the mental, physical and social stimulation they need (and by mental stimulation, I mean things like gundog training, learning new commands etc). And I can't help but think that you're setting yourself up to fail by focussing on those areas and not on the more practical things - like does your flat (lease) even allow dogs? How are you going to handle toilets in the middle of the night? How about if the dog needs the toilet when your partner is working? Etc Etc.

There's nothing wrong with using a kong every now and then, but your opening post literally made it sound like the Kong and snuggle matt would be factoring into the dogs life three a day - and, I'm sorry, but that's just not good dog ownership. Ultimately, you need to teach a dog to switch off - not give it a kong - and it's not an easy task, particularly with an active breed. As PP said, if the dog gets distressed, a kong (which in the paws of a determined dog lasts about two minutes - one of mines record is literally two minutes) won't do anything to make them feel more confident.

A greyhound or older rescue would suit you. But a puppy, and particularly a gundog puppy, would not be suitable. What a lot of people fail to realise is it's not about how much exercise you give them etc, but about the stimulation you provide (and that's training them, doing gundog classes etc). Spaniels are also highly prone to extreme separation anxiety - so leaving them alone, even for two hours, can be incredibly challenging. You won't be able to do that with a rescue for at least several months. And likewise with a puppy.

My daily routine is pretty irrelevant as I have a sizeable garden which they access all day every day even in winter, my dogs are never alone for more than a few minutes (even though they can be), and I have multiple dogs. They're also show lines, although they work, so require far less stimulation than their working counterparts - which is hugely important.

Spaniel covers quite a range - it sounds like a show cocker or a cavalier king Charles would suit you well - please don't get a working cocker it wouldn't be fair on you or the dog from what you've described. Miniature poodle (just make sure the parents aren't highly strung). Having had rescues and puppies I've found rescues actually easier and you get some really nice mixes and can get an idea of their temperament. My mum and I have hound mixes from the same charity and both would suit your life perfectly. The challenge with hounds can be their prey drive with being off lead - def trainable just something to be aware of

I wouldn’t recommend spaniels or any type of overly active and working breeds like poodles.

Hounds are easily trainable, ours was. They just have a different mind set, they do things if there’s something in it for them, they’re just not people pleasers. Ours has recall.

What is your profession if you don't mind Mr asking.

Because for someone who states that they work with dogs, you seem to know very little about them....

• me not Mr ... 🤣

I'm genuinely confused by your quandry. If you work with dogs, why do you need advice from Mumsnet, many of whom are not multi-breed experienced? People will always recommend their own breed if they've had a good experience, but it hardly gives broad enough knowledge to be able to advise you on a potential 12yr+ commitment?

Definitely consider a greyhound. They are wonderful dogs who like to chill out and sleep a lot. Spaniels are high energy working dogs so I’d avoid a spaniel or similar working breed

You're going to be looking at a rescue dog - puppies are going to take a lot longer to fit into your work plans

Agreed it's going to have to be an older rescue who has matured out of the puppy/adolescent (twat) phase if this your plan from day 1. A puppy or younger dog will not manage to adapt to this schedule for at least a year so is not a viable option.

Rescue greyhound, they're basically cats. Lovely natured dogs.

Make your life easy and get a toy/companion breed. Greyhounds and lurchers can't be off lead (or, shouldn't. You never know when they'll put an animal up on the nice walks you want to go on, follow it over sheep fencing and maul some sheep or kill a small dog when their blood is up). Gundogs and hounds are a pain in the arse because they have so much energy and recall can go out of the window if they want to chase something, even if they're well trained and once they do it they'll keep doing it because it's so enjoyable.

Toy and companion breeds are bred to be your best friend, my little poms can do 6miles with my bigger dogs and still go again at night. My childhood shih tzu was the same. They don't care if you have alot on and just want to walk them for 20 mins and sit in the garden with them instead though. Very forgiving of inexperienced trainers, never seriously have to worry about the dog not taking to your training and becoming a liability. Dry faster after a walk, eat less, poo less, live longer. Stay away from the yappier ones like chis and poms.

That set up won't work with a puppy so you will need to get an older dog and even then it doesn't sound ideal.

A staffie. The answer is always a staffie.

I think what you're suggesting could work if you've got backup in place. I don't know much about rescues, but I'm pretty sure you won't be able to guarantee they'll be okay on their own, so you'll need to take some overlapping leave at first to settle them. And then stuff happens - one of you might need to be away so you'll need to have daycare or a dog walker at the very least. Do you have jobs that are in any way flexible?

Agree that spaniels are probably a bad idea - they are velcro dogs. Some will be fine on their own, lots won't, and the ones in rescue are the ones that struggled with something. Staffies are not always great at socialising with other dogs; their play style can be a bit robust. What size are the dogs you want to socialise with?