Dogs behaving badly tonight ch4

[Allthatworkandwhatnow543]

Much as I love Graeme Hall - love a man in tweed😃 - and his positive, friendly approach; plus he seems like a decent guy and a good dog trainer, the programme frustrates me because he never underlines the obvious; that certain dogs, usually working breeds, need a lot more stimulus and interest in their lives than an ordinary domestic household can give them, although it was pretty obvious in both of these cases.

Tonight, the programme featured a German Shepherd who span around holding his tail for attention, and had been doing so for eight years ☹️ and a gorgeous, bright as a button Parsons Jack Russell, who snatched glasses off people's faces and barked at coats when people took them off and put them on.

So he solves the problems, which was attention-seeking in both cases - well he shows the owners how to resolve them, and checks in over a longer period of time - but the underlying issue is still there. Both sets of owners tonight seemed like lovely people so this post is not directed at them in particular, but potential dog owners in general need to be more aware of DNA and much more aware of origins of breeds before they buy!

It sounds so obvious but before buying, check that you have the time and environment to give a working breed, the equivalent stimulus and interest that a full time job would provide! Rant over!

I agree.

We have a Parsons, so little Finn was my favourite dog tonight.

We researched into the breed, and understood what we took on. They need stimulation and activity. They are like toddlers.....need tiring out 🤣

He’s awful.

A Parsons is on my list of next dog when there is a vacancy but you have to be very careful with the breeder I think. I was bowled over by Finn's intelligence tonight.

Graeme H? Why so?

We suspect our rescue is a parsons, bloody neurotic thankfully loves her sleep.

GH just gets others to solve the issues. It's all made up sadly.

Oh! I wasn't aware of that. How do you know if you don't mind me asking?

GH is not great as he uses adverses (punishment based training) and for anything complicated gets support from actual dog behaviourists.

That said I agree with you op the amount of working dogs on that programme is very telling.
What those dogs need is lots of exercise and training.

I have a terrier mix who would be bouncing off the walls without long walks, play time and training.

My Parsons would be bouncing off the walls without two walks a day and lots of interactive play.
He is 2, and was rescued from abuse, terrible previous owner. We have had alot to unravel alot of damage.

He’s not a qualified behaviourist or trainer he - doesn’t understand dog behaviour or body language and his methods are 50years out of date at best and truly harmful at worst. Disgraceful he’s all over the tv.

Sorry but he’s an unqualified idiot.

A very accurate description.

He knows less about dogs than my 10 year old.

Eek I have obviously opened a can of worms by mentioning GH on here!

I can’t say I have noticed anything particularly cruel about his methods. I tell my dogs “no” in a firm voice occasionally, I know he used a compressed air canister in yesterday’s episode which isn’t ideal, but he used it for the sound, he did not aim it in the dog’s face which would obviously be unacceptable.

I don’t think it’s fair to call him an idiot! According to Wiki, he’s university educated and was a management consultant for 21 years. He’s also a member of the Guild of Dog Trainers whatever that is.

I am a follower of Turid Rugaas so I am all for a behavioural approach but sometimes you do need sensible, practical solutions for an ingrained problem.

Of course you need to be as positive and playful as possible when being around dogs but there needs to be common sense too. Mother dogs reprimand their puppies after all so I don’t see anything wrong with telling a dog “no” occasionally, if you can’t distract or offer them an alternative behaviour.

Edited: I’d be genuinely interested to know a specific example of when his methods have been harmful? I’ve only watched about half of the episodes,

He’s a gorgeous dog Justwingingit2005

You are doing a very good thing! I love his name too!

This programme is positively dangerous by omission in that it fails state how fundamentally the owners have failed their dogs. The owners are (usually) completely and utterly clueless about dogs and have neglected them by failing to provide appropriate training.

The problems they have are always presented as behavioural issues within the dogs themselves, but in most cases there is absolutely zero wrong with the dogs except that they have been trying to work out how to behave in a household where they are given no direction at all that they can understand.

That's why Graham Thingy can provide such 'amazing' results. It is just like giving food to a starving dog and seeing its energy improve quickly.

I don't think that the problem with the programme is particularly to do with owners' lack of awareness of different breeds' needs. They just lack awareness of dogs. Occasionally the series does include a dog with a genuine intrinsic difficulty that needs a specialist response from a behaviouralist. I would love to see a series that focused on dogs like this, rather than just compensating for owners' ignorant neglect

I’d be genuinely interested to know a specific example of when his methods have been harmful?

Gosh, I wouldn't say that his methods were harmful. He seems calm, kind and positive towards the dogs. He is good at observing the precise moment that they do the wanted behaviour, and then rewarding it with a look or a word (or a treat). Feels like he has a very natural talent for relating with them calmly.

The problem with the programme is its whole pandering to the irresponsibility of owning a dog in such ignorance of its basic training needs. Graham Thingy's methods seem fine.

I totally agree with this post which is similar to the point I am making.

And agree that it’s the owners’ cluelessness generally that is the issue.

Personally, I include being aware of a dog’s original breeding and purpose as a fundamental part of being dog-aware in a more general sense but that’s splicing hairs!

Also agree that the programme should make this point far,far more clearly.

He is an idiot. He should have stayed a management consultant instead of pretending to be a dog trainer.

Have a read of this:
GH facebook

He's not a dog trainer. He has no qualifications to his name and some of his methods, especially in earlier episodes, are downright dangerous.

He labels everything attention seeking. It's not. Most of the time it's their needs are not being met on some way and in some cases have been pain and/or fear based. He scares or bullies them into stopping. He mostly works with intelligent and sensitive dogs who will just shut down temporarily. It won't be a long term fix.

I specialise in terriers and training them. They are intelligent and high energy dogs and it is very easy to achieve great results with them if you take the time to build a bond but above all make it worth their while! They are working dogs in very small packages and people forget they need that outlet in order to be balanced and happy.

I have a PRT and agree that they are the most wonderful dogs. Their high prey drive gives them the most enormous capacity for joy, since there are so many toys and games that can enlist it.
In my experience (admittedly small - I have only owned two) they also have a built-in wariness which means that your first job is to ensure that they always feel safe.
Loads of fun training helps with that task as they learn to regard you as the person whose cues can structure every unfamiliar (and potentially threatening) situation in such a way that there are rewards and no peril.

I’m not sure that Facebook post is as revealing as you think though Noi because I am pretty sure that he has brought in behaviourists occasionally on to the programme who specialise in an area that’s beyond his own experience.

I could be getting mixed up with another programme but I am fairly certain he consulted a behavioural specialist once or twice and they were credited by name in person. And of course he quite often uses owners and dogs to teach his client’s dogs and I presume they aren’t just ordinary dog-walkers they come across in the park at the time.

Look, I am not here to act as his agent, and I started this thread because I dislike the fact that the programme doesn’t mention the elephant in the room; that most of the dogs they feature aren’t being provided with the right environment, training or level of stimulation and interest by their owners, but neither do I think GH is quite as bad as everyone is making out.

Btw my question about examples of episodes where his intervention has been harmful was directed at Whu

This is very interesting to read! Thanks for the tips AlbertCamusflage.

With my qualified behaviourist and over 15 years as an agility trainer hat on he is misleading. Most behavioural problems take months and years to fix with most being a case of management long term. The programme gives the illusion of quick fixes. That’s harmful.

It doesn’t address underlying issues such as boredom. The dogs often look stressed and worried. Yes you can stop something short term by confusing the dog. It’s easy.

The Dog Academy is a much better watch. Looking at why and the history of the dog and implementing strategies to help deal with the problem.

Last night my terrier was trying to mouth and bite me after tea and really being a bit of a twat. The reason? She was over tired (yes not just puppies get over tired) after going back to training classes after the Christmas break. I could have labelled it attention seeking in some way. I could have punished her or shut her away. Both damaging to our relationship and her confidence. But instead I held a horn for her to chew which she did for a few minutes until she’d calmed right down and spent the evening chilling out on the sofa.

I share your concerns about the short term fix although to be fair he does always emphasise that the owners need to work on the issue long after he has gone. If the dog’s basic needs are still not being met though, Ime, a different issue comes to take the place of the original problem.

I don’t think he labels everything as attention seeking. He quite clearly made a distinction between that and a fear based problem in last night’s episode for example.

I can’t say I have seen an episode where the dog was scared or bullied in to stopping as I am sure I would remember that. Can you remember anything more specific about those episodes?

Totally agree about terriers needing balance in their life and lots to do!

Thank you Newpeep will try and catch the Dog Academy.

Totally agree about long term management and training.