Dogs behaving badly tonight ch4

[Allthatworkandwhatnow543]

Much as I love Graeme Hall - love a man in tweed😃 - and his positive, friendly approach; plus he seems like a decent guy and a good dog trainer, the programme frustrates me because he never underlines the obvious; that certain dogs, usually working breeds, need a lot more stimulus and interest in their lives than an ordinary domestic household can give them, although it was pretty obvious in both of these cases.

Tonight, the programme featured a German Shepherd who span around holding his tail for attention, and had been doing so for eight years ☹️ and a gorgeous, bright as a button Parsons Jack Russell, who snatched glasses off people's faces and barked at coats when people took them off and put them on.

So he solves the problems, which was attention-seeking in both cases - well he shows the owners how to resolve them, and checks in over a longer period of time - but the underlying issue is still there. Both sets of owners tonight seemed like lovely people so this post is not directed at them in particular, but potential dog owners in general need to be more aware of DNA and much more aware of origins of breeds before they buy!

It sounds so obvious but before buying, check that you have the time and environment to give a working breed, the equivalent stimulus and interest that a full time job would provide! Rant over!

she was as mad as a box of Chihuahuas

I only caught it when channel hopping but he labels most dogs as attention seeking IME. They're mostly unfulfilled working breeds. A lot of spaniels.

BUY THE BREED WHERE YOU KNOW YOU CAN FULFILL THEIR MENTAL AND PHYSICAL NEEDS. There you are. Easy really. If shit happens then get help but very very few dogs are attention seeking with no good reason (and if they do it's easy to deal with without confusing the dog).

Totally with you @Newpeep - most of the dogs that he "trains" are just massively under stimulated and exercised, and in homes that don't even remotely meet their needs.

I caught a bit of the Underdog programme and thought it was ok for promoting different activities but a bit too fluffy for me.

The dog academy is probably the best TV example of how training should be done by looking at they whole situation.

I was told I was absolutely bonkers wanting a working line terrier as a dog trainer. She’s just qualified herself out of level 1 rally with three excellent scores and is flying at agility. At the weekend we walked miles in the countryside off the lead with no issues. We walked part way along a canal path and she’s trained us that when she sees a bike she comes to us and she gets a treat 😉 I was told she’d be untrainable, trash the house, dig up the garden and never be off the lead. Dog training is about understanding what you have and working with it. Something GH does not do.

The issue is that potential owners don't know what they don't know. Their neighbour has a nice chilled poodle, bright but fairly easily kept happy. They have various chats to the neighbour, who explains that poodles are a gundog breed, bred to go all day.*

They think they'd like a cockapoo, because there is a really cute 6 month old cockapoo that they see on the school run and the DC love it. But then they read something about puppy farms churning out cockapoos and how you should look for a decent breeder, pedigree, Kennel Club, etc. Oh, perhaps not a cockapoo...

They see a man with a whistle on the playing field with a charming, well mannered cocker spaniel and enquire what they're like, we're thinking about getting a dog. Well, says the man, they are gundogs, they can work 6 or 8 drives and would be happy to carry on. They need to sniff and hunt, I start to teach that with tennis balls...
(They don't want to ask what a drive is for fear of sounding ignorant, so just nod through that bit.)

They watch Crufts and listen to Clare Balding telling everyone that the cocker spaniel is a gundog breed, bred to go all day ('Oh, like the poodle next door!'). Clare then has a quick chat with the handler of the winning cocker, who repeats the 'gundog' stuff and then adds, 'But Maisie here just loves a good run in the morning, she'd happily do more but she gets 40 minutes and chills out the rest of the day, shes quite lazy really!'

Research has now been done! The decision can be made! Kids, we're getting a cocker spaniel! But not the really fluffy sort we saw on Crufts, more like one we see on the playing fields, because I don't want to be dealing with that much fur, I know my limits and I'm houseproud.

No one, nowhere, has explained that the show line cocker is a very different critter from a working cocker. They find an ad and get a puppy from a breeder who doesn't tell them either - or who does tell them, but they think they know what to expect because of next door's poodle, so they reassure the breeder that they have done their research.**

And then, 18 months later, the dog is running round the house barking, threatens to bite at the end of the walk when it's time to get back in the car, and tries to break out every time the front is opened so much as a crack.

The poor owner thinks they did their research. They'd avoided puppy farms, they'd asked about health tests, they'd found out what gundogs were like, and now this!

Poor sods. I feel for them and the dogs, I really do.

• Working poodles are like hen's teeth. I've known dozens of working gundogs, and come across exactly half a poodle (the other half of the dog is spaniel). Most poodles are from generations bred to be pets. ** I know a breeder to whom this happened. He wouldn't have minced his words, that's not in his skill set. He had a puppy he'd sold returned at about a year, because she'd 'become aggressive'. He's had her back a couple of years now and she is a delight and competing in field trials.

The dog academy is probably the best TV example of how training should be done by looking at the whole situation.

As good as it was from a training and behavioural point of view, I have to say I don't think it made very gripping television.

And that's the problem - dog training is generally very repetitive and takes a long time. It's not overly interesting from an outsiders viewpoint and isn't something that makes for very popular viewing.

Which is why shows like Graeme's do well. They seem to solve issues quickly, the presenter is fun and cheerful and appealing and it makes for good soundbites and trailers. It also appeals to people who aren't really interested in dogs and just want some light entertainment.

Yes, totally. I think that's where the TV series is problematic. So, for some people, they don't need a dog behaviourist, they need someone to point out their own behaviour. That's enough. The problem is the programme focusses on more severe problems, which probably do need more specialist training.

My dog isn't terribly badly behaved, but not perfect, but I have found him useful in recognising where the problems are entirely down to me (well mainly DH)

I agree. Dog training is really repetitive and boring unless you are a dog person or really even a trainer. I know lots of fabulous dog people who don’t care about training but then they’ve bought or adopted dogs where they don’t need to. They do exist.

EdithStourton I’d agree. I’ve been teaching agility for years and I find it scary that when I ask if a dog is show or working line on initial enquiry most people have no idea! The breed I have has really gained popularity without people realising their origins and the fact they need a mental outlet and quite a bit of enrichment in order not to be really difficult dogs.

@Newpeep I know your breed. There are are a couple locally. One has been referred to a behaviourist because of insane behaviour at home and the other has a tendency to begin what looks like a civil greeting and then launch himself teeth-first, with serious intent, at the other dog. I saw him yesterday, and took evasive action. I won't let my dogs near him (and I'm completely blasé about that type of quick all-bark-and-no-bite fracas where one dog draws a few boundaries for another).

Neither owner does anything with either dog except walk it. Zero training, zero outlet, very quiet home lives.

It doesn’t surprise me but is such a shame. They’re PAT dogs, assistance dogs, agility and obedience dogs and I even know some training to be search and rescue! That should tell anyone they generally need brain work to be happy. They look cute and scruffy but they’re not lap dogs although mine would disagree at times 😉 They’re also amazingly adaptable. After socialisation she’s very comfortable in a busy city and accompanies my elderly father in law to his betting shop via the bus quite frequently.

I didnt watch the episode but tail chasing is a serious ocd in shepherds. Labelling it as attention seeking means its not appropriately dealt with which is one example of why he is harmful.

I wanted a working cocker but after some fairly scant research, decided that would not suit us so got a show cocker instead. The breeder even matched us with a calm one!

He still needs plenty of activity and stimulation but is perfect for us.

However a friend got a pedigree working line and does nothing with her, never goes off lead. Then complains she is so badly behaved.