Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - get teenage licks right through the night!

[Bupster]

I've buckled and started the new thread - welcome to the horror of adolescence!

Thank you both <3 @YorkshireFelix @Bupster

I drove us to the farm up the road where we get our meat and a small fortune and the promise of a venison joint (ironic!) for tomorrow's supper later I feel a bit better. Just disappointed in her and in myself too – and also horrified that someone else had to see part of it happen! If we'd been in an open field with no one around at least no one else would have witnessed me shouting 'PUPSYYYYY!' I think it's the worst thing she's ever done in her life, actually. We had an unfortunate incident with a partridge about a year ago and I was cross then but she wasn't even a year old so I wrote it off as inexperience.

Maybe I should be more charitable to her – I think today is probably the first time she has encountered a muntjac right in front of her offlead and without me directing her (as I was stuck in the aforementioned tree). It must have jumped up in front of her face as when they emerged from the wood she was right on its tail, so clearly it was right there rather than it being a chase from afar, if that makes sense. Ugh. Not making excuses for her or myself, I'm just sad it happened.

I've just got out her PerfectFit harness and can still make it fit so on Monday when it's quiet we're going to go to the deer park with the longline and reinforce not chasing things like we used to when she was little.

And @Bupster, that is so kind of you. I have never felt like more of an amateur than today! But I do work really hard with her and that's why it's upsetting. If I couldn't be arsed, like so many people, it wouldn't matter so much, but she really has let me down. Sending love to Bill and his malfunctioning ears xxx

@brushingboots I’m beginning to realise how stressful having a dog can be. Maybe it’s because of expecting (or wanting in my case) high standards of behaviour and responsiveness from the dog and when that doesn’t happen it does feel like a failure. Can a young dog ever be 100% reliable?

I lost Midge today too. It was very disheartening.

He’s been doing really well with recall without too many distractions, I was even able to call him away from a crow the other day (Big Win). Today he had well and truly turned his ears off. We were taken by surprise by a cocker spaniel which just appeared through the undergrowth. I managed to get Midge back on his lead and waited until I couldn’t see or hear the dog and owner and let Midge off again. He immediately took off after the dog and completely disappeared to the other side of the wooded area. Luckily he stayed with the cocker and his owner. Apparently lots of dogs find this cocker particularly attractive and want to lick his ‘bits’ and hump him (as Midge was doing). He must have smelt particularly alluring. I was mortified though. The spaniel owner was very understanding- I had explained earlier that we were practising recall!

I know I need to take this setback on the chin but it’s frustrating that at the first sign of another dog he’s off.

Oh that sounds stressful @Nella68, there must be something in the air today!

Ahh @Nella68, I’m sorry you had a rubbish walk too. I don’t find pupsy stressful most of the time but I did today, and I think that’s why I was so upset this morning, as she really showed me, and herself, up, in a very familiar location. High standards will do that to you but it’s better to have high standards than accept crappy behaviour from dogs that should know better.

Take the win on that crow, that’s excellent!

I suspect I am often the owner of a spaniel that just appears through the undergrowth, though I am always close by. Bless Midge – spaniels are particularly exciting to lots of dogs I think. I am sure he will get there but I remember this period of time very well and getting through it was a process. Now she is super unbothered by most other dogs and looks to me for permission to approach and ideally to do something else – you can teach it but it does also come with maturity and an understanding that other dogs aren’t as exciting as you are. Before the muntjac incident this morning we were rushed by a goldie and a staffie at the same time and pupsy just ignored them and carried on her hunting with me. A year ago she definitely would have wanted to bog off with them! So he will get it too. He’s still such a baby and hormones are, no doubt, doing him in.

I don’t feel qualified to help anyone with anything much today but I have been down your ‘dogs are exciting’ road and we are out the other side – and you will get there too x

@Nella68 Another thought just occurred to me that helped me understand other dogs being exciting and how to deal with it in reverse... the way I managed the dogs that rushed us this morning was to make pupsy very boring to them, so I just asked her to sit so she wasn't being fun and they got the message and went away. I got the idea from a girl I follow on Instagram. She goes to these group neutrality classes where the dogs have to sit/lie down/perform a game with the handler in the middle with lots of dogs walking round them in circles/being distracting etc. I wonder if a class like that would help Midge to disassociate other dogs with excitement? Will try and find a video of it for you.

@brushingboots that is interesting. I always get V to sit when a dog approaches and sometimes he does it beautifully and other times he sort of tries then the other dog is too distracting, but I guess that comes with age and practice.

I've just discovered our local B&M sells yak chews so much cheaper than Pets at Home! And olive wood chews too and some other bits for a good price. You have to sift through all the rubbish but they have some good natural stuff.

I've also picked up a couple of trays of Harringtons wet food to try topping his food with, as he's totally lost interest in his kibble. I am seriously thinking about swapping him entirely to raw as I worked it out on Durham Animal Feeds and it's actually cheaper per day than his Millie's kibble...

@YorkshireFelix I think so much of all of it comes with age. I really don’t think we can expect them to do much until they’re at least a year old, and for bitches until they’ve had a season. I’m not sure where the change point is with dogs but pupsy’s season had a big effect on her maturity.

I also think getting them to sit when they're approached is totally genius and having seen how well it worked this morning I'm going to be doing it every time now! It used to drive me mad having dogs running up to us where we were (obviously) training but it helps to see it from the other end and how you can help other dogs by asking yours not to respond.

@YorkshireFelix Ahhh you have the raw itch too! I wish I had a DAF discount code for you but I just get it from our local ag shop. I’m not surprised it's cheaper than Millie’s as Millie’s is a fair bit more ££ than our Skinners kibble is. My vet said a mix of kibble and raw is fine so that’s what we do but I appreciate that that then negates any money-saving aspect as you’re having to buy both, though our kibble is so much cheaper now she’s not on puppy mixes anymore.

How much raw does it say he needs – about 500g/day?

I have done the calculator on DAF website who say 700g and then I was looking at Pro Raw (which is ££££ compared) who say 630g. BUT I have just been looking at Trustpilot reviews of DAF and it's put me off a bit. I wonder if there's anywhere locally I can have a look and buy in person 🤔

Ooh I have found a place really close by who stock DAF and some other stuff too so I'll take a trip there. I didn't even know it existed!!

@YorkshireFelix I have seen those reviews too, but can hand on heart say that I’ve never had a problem. I manhandle pupsy’s raw every day as I mix it manually with her kibble so I’d feel any big bits of bone/anything else that shouldn’t be there. I do find that the texture varies but I think that’s more down to the individual flavour than anything else and I’ve never had an off pack! I don’t bulk buy but buy individual packs so I don’t get a ‘batch’ as it were, but lots of different batches of different flavours.

I suspect you may have fun at the shop you’ve found if you’re anything like me! I always get a bit carried away when I go to the ag shop and end up with loads of stuff for her.

Thank you, I did think it must be decent off your recommendation as I know you wouldn't stand for any rubbish! And yes it will probably cost me a fortune if I go to the shop 😂 I just can't help myself. I've joined the 'Raw feeding for dogs made simple' group on FB and they have a good website with loads of info. Their calculator says 700g over two meals. I do think he doesn't need it split over 3 any more. He's only just eating his breakfast I put out this morning right now 😖

@YorkshireFelix Ahhh v kind! I trusted it initially as my parents have always used it and never had a problem. I love the Naked Dog formulations and so does pupsy but at £6.99 for 1kg from the shop in town it’s just absurdly overpriced by comparison, even with the most expensive DAF flavour which is about £1.60 for 455g here. I just can’t justify it all the time.

I’m on that group too – it’s really useful for picking up ideas. I recently bought some vegetable blocks from Dougie’s too which I mix in with her meat sometimes to balance it. You can fall down the rabbit hole with raw as there are lots of ways to switch it up that can only benefit them. At Christmas I gave pupsy the raw turkey neck and now seek them out frozen in bags as she absolutely loves them!

I used to give duck necks as a chew, but once they got big enough they pretty much ate them in two chomps so don't bother anymore!

@brushingboots - thought of you today as we were at the Portland museum picking up some pots we threw in December

What sort of deer are at the deer park? Ime, muntjac are next level exciting, much more so than roe deer for example. I can tell from the behaviour of mine when the muntjac have been about. Mine found a dead one in the woods once and we had to visit it every time we were there for a while.

@brushingboots @YorkshireFelix Thank you for your words of encouragement. I need them today, Midge has been a little shit and I’ve threatened to send him to the Dogs’ Home. He has not listened At All. He’s usually great at walking close with a loose lead- that’s something I have been proud of, but today he’s pulled my arms out of their sockets. He spent the whole of this afternoon’s walk lunging towards the undergrowth. He gets a bit pully when he needs a poo but today it has been off the scale.
Does anyone else’s dog take forever to find a spot for a poo? It drives me mad as he’ll be nose to the ground pulling randomly towards a clump of leaves/ grass completely ignoring me. Once he’s had his bowels open it’s back to business and will look to me. Any tips for stopping poo pulls?

I tried the sitting and being boring this afternoon but he was charged by a couple of off lead dogs which were far more exciting. If dogs ignore him he’s getting better at reading their body language and can disengage quite quickly, it’s the ones that come up very enthusiastically. I don’t stand a chance then!

@tizwozliz The deer park herd is mostly managed fallow deer and they’ve been there centuries – there are some red deer in there too. When we walk along the edge of deer sanctuary, which is the top end of the park where people can’t walk, but on the woodland side of the fence, we tend to see reds along the edge and they are so calm. In turn pupsy is much calmer around them. Locally, outside the park, we see loads of roe. It’s funny you say that about muntjac being more exciting – that makes so much sense to me. I wonder if it’s the movement they make as they’re smaller and they run more frantically than ‘regular’ deer? Pupsy did a gorgeous turn after flushing about five roe the other morning and I was super impressed either her, but today was totally different so I wonder if it’s the muntjac effect.

The more I think about it the more I think the ‘rabbit’ she flushed was a fawn and then she found mum so got a double dose up really, really close and by then her head was gone. The bloody idiots are never usually where we were though which is why it was such a shock – not in the middle of the day, anyway. We've met muntjac in the woods before at twilight and fair enough but not in bright shining sun at 10am with other people around. Just frustrating as I am super vigilant and only set her up to do things with game when I know she'll succeed – I just didn't see them before she did and if I had I feel pretty sure that she would have recalled away. To think I only went that way because a woman was training her dog – how ironic.

Reading old ‘my dog chased a deer’ threads on here I now feel much better about it as plenty of people have reported their dogs not coming back for 10 minutes plus so my (maybe) two minutes with some undignified running and whistling seems OK by comparison. But I am embarrassed and it has given me a kick up the arse as apparently despite all the training we do we’re not doing enough!

Ahh I love the Portland museum! You are absolutely spoilt where you are.

@Nella68 Ahh no, I'm sorry, naughty Midge. Sounds like textbook adolescence. Poor you and him, as his hormones must be going wild.

Pupsy tends to poo in almost exactly the same spot on each individual walk we do and in most cases by that point she’s off the lead so doesn’t pull me there, but when she is on lead needing a poo, I generally accept that the pulling is directly related and let her off the hook. But she is a lot smaller than Midge, I know. I find the pitch black evening offlead walks when she’s less desperate to go the most annoying as I have to watch her every single movement in case the pause she’s occupied in is actually a poo and not just a sniff.

Keep at the sitting and being boring and he will get it! Just reward when he does it, even if he can’t hold it. I wouldn’t expect pupsy to not break her sit if she was being charged at but I would just quietly ask for it again and keep reinforcing it to give the other dogs a signal to go away more than anything. That's what I did this morning anyway. Those dogs that barge in enthusiastically need their own manners lessons by the sound of it so that’s not Midge’s fault! It’s no use if their owners aren’t in sight but I know a lot of people find the ‘dog in training’ vests and/or leads useful for these situations.

Just keep plugging away with what you’re doing and being positive if you can because you are doing the right things and he will get there. He’s just a baby still.

I think muntjac are also smellier than other deer which is no doubt part of the allure. I've spoken to others whose dogs have gone crazy when there's muntjac about despite being fairly reliable otherwise.

@tizwozliz Ahh that makes sense too! Bloody stupid pests that they are, though very tasty. I won't condemn pupsy just yet.

V wolfed down his kibble mixed with the Harringtons wet and keeps going back to his bowl to quadruple check he's finished it all off, so I think it was a hit!

@brushingboots thanks- I don’t know how long I can use the baby excuse!

I was having a look at muntjacs. I didn’t know they are the only species of deer in the UK that can give birth at any time throughout the year so it could have been a fawn.

Bill is a horror when he needs a poo and he hates using the gravel in the garden if there's a chance he can hang on and have something soft like grass or leaves under his bum, which means that by the time we get out in the mornings he's mental. Our morning walks are absolutely awful until we get where we're going. Then the little sod trots back like he's in a show ring, gobbling liver paste out of the tube.

Keeping him on a long line is pretty awful right now as well - I kind of have to, as whenever I let him off, he keeps doing a Fenton and running round and round in giant circles in sheer delight, which is bad enough on the Common but is heart attack material when it's near a car park. But this morning he nearly had me over more than once and it's no fun for either of us until he settles down. I hate wishing his life away but this is a misery about 50% of the time we're outside 🙁.