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Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - get teenage licks right through the night!

992 replies

Bupster · 17/01/2025 14:03

I've buckled and started the new thread - welcome to the horror of adolescence!

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Nella68 · 21/01/2025 14:40

@tizwozliz How lovely (maybe?) to see all those deer!

We had a muntjac run across the playing field in front of us the other day. I initially thought it was a huge long legged rabbit!

YorkshireFelix · 21/01/2025 14:42

brushingboots · 21/01/2025 14:23

@YorkshireFelix I hear you – they are a pain but so useful. It's hard to reinforce the 'you must come back right now' thing without one when they're buggering about and inclined not to listen.

I really want to take pupsy back into the deer park here on the longline as she can't go off lead there and the only reason I haven't done it is because I doubt any of the harnesses we have will still fit and I don't want to buy one just to do that. I don't think I can even offer you one of ours, if V is 16kg and surely all over bigger than pupsy, else I would!

Aw thank you though. I am just being tight really as the one we had last time, which I really liked, was only £20 from Amazon. So I'll just buy another 😄

I am watching the 'how to train' videos. I watched the first one when you posted about it but didn't realise there were two more now. The second one is so interesting as I think the dog in the video is very similar to Vinny (but more well trained!). Very clever and perceptive about what's going on around him, which he explained isn't necessarily a good thing. Better off having a slightly dim and happy dog!!

YorkshireFelix · 21/01/2025 14:43

Nella68 · 21/01/2025 14:37

It was a really good session. We went to the old golf course so the distractions were fewer- we only saw one dog in the distance.

Things for me to work on/ do:

  1. I need to get into a routine sequence before I let him off the lead. So he needs to sit, be unclipped, and then give me eye contact before I release him
  2. Get some high value treats as the ones I have are boring.
  3. When I call him, drop the high value treat between my feet so he has to put his head down to get it. Whilst he’s there do a collar grab (I already say ‘grab’) so he gets used to having his collar held then release him. I say finish. Let him frolic around then call him as above and repeat (but don’t call him too soon after I’ve let him off)
  4. Occasionally put him back on the lead for close work and then after 20 metres or so do the lead unclipping routine as step one. Lots of high value treats for him focussing on me when he’s close.
  5. After a few dropping the treats between my feet (useful tip: if I’m too slow getting the treat out, pretend to drop it!), give him a treat from my hand.
  6. If he voluntarily walks in the close position clip him on and treat + + then let him off.

It was the best walk I’ve had with him ever. I needed a confidence boost. It made me so happy to see him running around free and keeping us in his sight.
The trainer recommended avoiding the area where Midge was attacked and to work on his recall etc in the quieter area. I took him over to the ‘scene of the crime’ earlier as he needed a quick walk. I hadn’t realised how anxious it would make me.

Oh brilliant, it sounds like you've had such a positive session!

tizwozliz · 21/01/2025 14:49

Nella68 · 21/01/2025 14:40

@tizwozliz How lovely (maybe?) to see all those deer!

We had a muntjac run across the playing field in front of us the other day. I initially thought it was a huge long legged rabbit!

Yes and no, it's nice to see but I'm then on high alert. Both pups will try and give chase if the deer start running if I'm not paying attention to recall them. Two of these ones decided to jump the fence into the woods right in front of us, normally they're sensible enough to stay in the field.

I remember with older one when she was still in an unreliable phase coming home totally frazzled as we'd seen three deer, a hare and a dozen or so pheasants!

brushingboots · 21/01/2025 15:01

@Nella68 Brilliant! That all sounds super positive. What a result to have come away with small lots of things you can action rather than just ‘work on this vague thing and hope for the best’.

brushingboots · 21/01/2025 15:05

Ahh I love deer. Pupsy flushed a group of about five roe deer yesterday when we were out doing training and she did a lovely dead stop and turn before they jumped the dyke. She flushed and stopped on her first hare at the weekend too and in a way I think I was most proud of that as it was about her size and she could easily have caught up.

YorkshireFelix · 21/01/2025 15:05

tizwozliz · 21/01/2025 14:37

All signed off with the vet and back to off lead walks yesterday. Good recall test came up!

Bet you're glad to be back out and about ☺️

lookwhatyoumademedoo · 21/01/2025 15:07

congratulations @brushingboots !! That's amazing!!!

lookwhatyoumademedoo · 21/01/2025 15:25

@Nella68 sounds like you had a good training session, but it also sounds like your doing great with pupsy!
we had a small victory today. Out for a walk around the woods, i hadn't spotted a fella with his dog on lead and we were walking towards them so max and dog sort of walked into eachother. i whistled Max back as soon as i saw dog on lead and max bounded straight back and sat at my feet while i popped him on the lead. i was super proud of him because at one time id have had to either catch him or turn and walk the other way to get him back.

Nella68 · 21/01/2025 16:33

@lookwhatyoumademedoo That’s good around distractions. How old is Max? I wish I could whistle!

I need to practise in the environment with fewer distractions for the next couple of weeks and then I’ll meet the trainer somewhere a little busier for the next session.

Nella68 · 21/01/2025 16:36

@brushingboots I have just purchased a couple of squeaky dinosaurs!

I’m guessing that I need to ‘load’ them so pups associates them with high reward. Do you think they are better for emergency situations when I need him back quickly or every recall?

brushingboots · 21/01/2025 16:46

@Nella68 Hooray! Truly I am the squeaky dinosaur influencer! Just don’t let him chew them and keep them as a tool not a toy as they lose their squeak if bitten through. I didn’t ever load mine with meaning – I actually discovered their effect by accident when I took one out with me to use to do some hunting with and squeaked it by accident: cue head turn and enthusiastic recall! I would keep it for when you need it – when he looks like he’s going to make a poor decision, or when it’s been made and needs reversing. And then masses of praise for making a good decision in return.

Re whistling, btw: I whistle pupsy with my mouth which she is becoming extremely good at moving to (and it looks cool) but mainly with my actual dog whistle which is made by Acme. I have a spaniel one – a 210.5 – but there is a lab/retriever one which is the 211.5 which I’d have thought would be the right one for Midge. They’re about £10 and well worth it if you want another recall/skill method. I never go on a walk without mine, even lead walks. You do need to get them to understand the meaning of the whistle which you can do at home super easily, but unless you want to do gundog work with him, him recalling to its sound will do. I’ve taught pupsy that different pips mean different things but that is far more involved than most people want and need out of a whistle and they are absolutely superb at cutting through the wind.

YorkshireFelix · 21/01/2025 17:05

Whistle is very effective (usually) for us too. Most of the time Vinny will recall to 3 pips and I did teach him to stop and sit on 1 pip then didn't do it for ages so he's forgotten it 😄 So that's something I need to work on. I've not yet taught him to change direction yet but it's on the list.

I do try and use 'this way' command if I want to move him on without fully recalling, as I try not to use the whistle unless I am pretty confident he will come back. That is something his trainer taught me, as it's a bit more of a relaxed command than a full recall.

It's very useful and was super easy to teach (I was kind of loosely doing it anyway on our walks but it's nice to train it properly). You basically throw a treat in one direction so they go and get it, then you walk the opposite direction as that's happening and call 'this way' so they follow you. Then do the same again and again.

Nella68 · 22/01/2025 17:59

@brushingboots I completely forgot to take the dinosaur out today. I must put one in my pocket!
I’ve just read your response to the hyperactive cocker thread. How do you stop pups from chasing things? Midge has a very high prey drive (squirrels/ crows/ anything feathered) and will lunge towards them if on lead and chase them if off. He managed to ignore the many crows today but none were that close. I worry about him chasing them onto the road.

brushingboots · 22/01/2025 20:39

@Nella68 Ahh! I went to an appointment today at lunchtime and sat down and squeaked – or rather, the resident dinosaur in my pocket did.

Disclaimer: all of our Not Chasing Things work is ongoing and pupsy is better on some animals than others! Pigeons in our garden still risk their lives daily, crows get almost universally blanked, and we continue to work on rabbits and game birds.

I guess I have approached it in lots of small ways all at once but without any kind of theory – just doing it totally uneducatedly as I go along. But if I think about it I guess this is what I’ve done.

You have to link a more positive action with what they want to do. So they see the bird/furry creatures and they want to run but you capture that moment and get their attention for something better. A good ‘leave’ works here too, so when I was working on crows in particular I would see the crows, see her see the crows and shout ‘leave’ so she got to know that seeing crows meant ‘leave’. And she knew that performing ‘leave’ meant she’d be rewarded in some way. I think that is fundamentally all any kind of training is but doing a good ‘leave’ on a crow is the sort of thing that gives you an immediate result as they have simply not chased it, if you see what I mean. Onlead this works well too – they see a duck, say, by the river and you can stick in a ‘leave’ and combine that with physically moving away from the duck – or better still pre-empting it as it's not a surprise.

Equally, I accepted that progress wouldn't be linear. If she took a few paces towards a crow but turned away, she’d be rewarded for the positive action, or even if she did chase it but recalled off it, I would reward the recall, and then I built it up in stages. A long-line helps a lot here because you can control the action and we did make judicious use of it when she was little.

Secondly – exposure. We did a lot of sitting watching deer quietly when she was little – and I mean loads, and from about 14 weeks. We live at the back of a deer park so I have an uninterrupted, unlimited, and almost private supply of moving creatures for her, and we used to go and sit as close to them as I’d dare with her on a long-line and just do nothing. We used to sit and wait and I’d hope that they’d take off so that I could show her that the response she needs when deer run is to do nothing. If she moved to run I’d say ‘sit sit sit’ and then when she had and she was calm again she’d get a reward and we’d move off, walk for a bit, and then do the same again at the next group of deer. The other day we were in the woods that border the deer park and came across a group of roe deer on the other side of the fence. They were about six foot from her. I sat her down and she waited, tail sweeping the floor, quivering with excitement, but quietly – crucially. I just reinforced her with ‘sit sit sit’ in a calm, positive voice, and fed her some pate to reinforce her cleverness, and she carried on sitting as they moved off. As they moved, I turned her round saying ‘this way’, and she came nicely because I hadn’t pushed it too long and got her frustrated. For cockers frustration is a big thing so I’m mindful not to ruin her good behaviour by making her do boring things for too long.

I think a lot of it comes down to familiarity – how I see it, you can’t teach them not to chase something that they’ve never encountered, or to not do something that they’ve never been told not to do, if that makes sense. I don’t know if that’s the right approach – a lot of people with working dogs keep their pups naive about game for a long time and I understand that, but where we live pupsy couldn’t stay naive for long if I ever wanted to take her on a good walk as there’s so much of it around. I had to show her what to do with it instead. That’s what I mean when I talk about going to gamey places with her – I put her into environments where there are ‘hazards’, albeit in safe, fenced fields not near a road, so that she can learn what to do when she encounters them. It means that yes, they probably will chase a deer/rabbit once or twice, but then they learn not to when you show them what to do instead and reward them for it.

I don’t know if any of that is helpful. I am such an amateur (and a beginner) and I’ve no idea if any of what I do with pupsy is right. Please don’t get the impression that she’s steady as a rock because she is definitely not! But we work on it every day.

Nella68 · 22/01/2025 22:16

@brushingboots thank you- some useful tips. I think crows will be easier to work on- I can see them from a distance. It’s the pesky squirrels that will be the challenge!

YorkshireFelix · 24/01/2025 14:15

Hope everyone is staying safe in this storm!

We are in an amber alert zone here but it didn't seem too bad so went for a quick walk round the village instead of our usual woodland walk. Went down to the park and as soon as it opened up the gusts were so strong I had to hold onto the railing to stop being blown over! And I am a sturdy 11 and a half stone 🤣

Vinny is so scatty in the wind so it wasn't a pleasant walk. He pulled all the way home and was desperate to get back into the house so don't think he liked it!

brushingboots · 24/01/2025 15:34

@Nella68 Pleasure! I hear you about squirrels, but frankly I consider them fair game as they eat my bird feed so haven't bothered to train her much on them. Oddly I don't see them that often.

brushingboots · 24/01/2025 15:48

God, this wind! And we’re only in a yellow wind warning. This morning’s walk was hard going – I went to a scenty place expecting her to go mad with the wind moving smells and do some good hunting but it was just tiresome and I kept being blown over. Always say about horses that they are mad in the wind, as they get on their toes, and pupsy was definitely on her toes this morning, though we did have a nice sit down by the river to practice doing nothing. Now hiding inside and planning to do a decent pavement walk this eve as I don’t fancy an open field again.

On the upside, it has been very sunny all day so I’ve got my washing on the line!

Bupster · 24/01/2025 17:02

Bill is completely demented when it's windy. Made this morning's walk hard work, though he met a friend so I let him off the lead to do a bit of spanielly chasing. They were all demented at the dog park this afternoon so he didn't stand out as much - and it feels safer there so I can let him off the lead to lose his mind for the whole time we're there.

Absolutely bugger all done in the way of training, but lots of affection both ways as we've spent a whole TWO DAYS apart. Predictably, he was absolutely fine with his first overnight. I woke up every 90 minutes, dreamed of him all night, and drove five hours to get back in time to get him (with the world's fastest pee stops 😄 - surely seven minutes including service station access roads must be a record?). He did of course try to bite my nose off.

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Nella68 · 24/01/2025 17:05

I didn’t want to go to the old golf course as it’s up on a hill and too exposed so I went to the park behind my house, which was very windy but tree free! I don’t trust Midge off lead yet so he had a whale of a time on the long line chasing the leaves and the flying rubbish.

I’ve just bought pups one of the Nina Otteson puzzles (I’m a sucker for the Aldi special buy aisle!). My daughter said he’s not bright enough but I’m glad to report he figured it out 😁

Nella68 · 24/01/2025 17:07

@Bupster glad to hear Bill’s first sleepover went well!

brushingboots · 25/01/2025 11:09

Just sitting in the car at the woods having a little cry after a terrible end to this morning's walk. All fine for about an hour – she did lots of good, close hunting, flushed a couple of rabbits fine, all good. Stopped to take a few photos of her, she had an impromptu swim in the direction of some ducks but recalled in the water. Usual stuff for her in this woodland, which we come to about four days a week.

Vaguely on the way back to the car we had looped back through some wood blocks to avoid a lady doing very obvious training with her dog and it's a way we often go so no dramas. Pupsy flushed what I thought was a large rabbit, all fine – she came off it when I shouted – and then suddenly she took off again after a muntjac that came out of nowhere. I wonder now whether the 'rabbit' she flushed was actually its fawn. I was stuck in a tree, I pushed my way of it and literally legged it after her, whistling as I'm running like a cross country teacher at a rural prep school, intermittently shouting her name, for what felt like AGES. It was probably only about two minutes but they were the longest two minutes of my life, as though the woods are big and also fenced, we were fairly near the carpark and thus the road, and at a point there is a road crossing which I've seen the deer use to get to the other side of the woods.

Suddenly a couple appeared with their lab and shouted 'she's here' so wherever the muntjac had gone she hadn't, at least. Got her back in and she was off again doing naughty circles with her nose down. Took her for a sit down to do some 'sitting doing nothing' practice as that is clearly what she needs and then she was in offlead heel jail for the rest of the walk – which she did not enjoy – and all the way back to the car.

I am so cross, and embarrassed, and sad. I feel like I've totally failed her. I dried her off and gave her a cuddle and told her that she had scared me because she did. She is usually so, so good at stopping or turning at least on moving game but her ears were just totally switched off. Or maybe she was choosing to ignore me, I don't know. I'm not sure what she thought she was going to do with the muntjac if she'd caught up with it but she's SO fit and incredibly fast that she was very close on its tail. Sadly, I had a cracking view of just that as she tore past me behind it. Just awful. 0/10, do not recommend.

YorkshireFelix · 25/01/2025 11:40

Oh gosh @brushingboots I am so sorry that happened. You must be so shaken up! But you absolutely haven't failed her. You've done such a fabulous job with her but shes still young and learning. It sounds like you handled it very well though and did exactly the right thing. Please don't beat yourself up about it.

Also I had to google what a Muntjac is!

Bupster · 25/01/2025 12:08

Oh lord, @brushingboots , I absolutely feel your pain. And terror - it's so scary when they bugger off and you can't call them back. Every single dog owner I speak to in real life has a story about losing their dog, if it's any consolation at all. At the moment Bill literally cannot hear me if he's further than about 10 metres from me, and I'm not able to let him safely off the long line at all, which is miserable, let alone have him offlead heel back to the car.

You have done a spectacularly good job with pupsy; I'm in awe of what a good trainer you are. But sometimes young dogs are still idiots, and she is still very young. Hope you're feeling a bit better now xx

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