Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - get teenage licks right through the night!

[Bupster]

I've buckled and started the new thread - welcome to the horror of adolescence!

@YorkshireFelix Did you hear back from your trainer re the video?

I think in your position, having tried absolutely everything else, I’d be talking to next door and finding the least disruptive terms. It might only take one night but you won’t know until you try.

I am appalled on your behalf that it’s still going on. Is he no better at all than he was when it all started?

No not at all! It is madness. We keep trying and trying and he just goes nuts every time we leave him downstairs at bedtime. He is otherwise doing quite well recently so it's frustrating.

I didn't hear back from the trainer but I'll drop her another message I think.

I think our neighbour on one side isn't around at the minute as we've not seen her for a while, and the other side are slightly elevated compared to us, so there's almost an extra floor between our ground floor and their bedroom so I'm hoping it won't disturb them. Dd is going for a sleepover at her friends house on Friday night so it seems like the perfect opportunity to give it a try?

I am obviously in no way in a position to advise anyone on anything, except how to keep feeding and training and adoring a dog that in public behaves like a gremlin post-midnight, rather than wrapping him in brown paper and posting him to bloody Battersea, but I think in your situation I might be writing a bit of a list of the things that make V more and less settled to try to work out what's needed.

I was just reading something that says sleep disturbances are really common in adolescence. Bill is still sleeping through the night, but he's in the bed with me. I've found he's really struggling in the daytime, especially the mornings, but if I take him up to the bed I can draw the blinds and put brown noise on, and he will reluctantly nap so I can work.

In your situation I might be thinking about where and when Vinnie can sleep in the daytime, what might be waking him up, whether there is too much light, or noise, or a draft in your bedroom, and that's why he gets unsettled, what is there about the living room that allows him to sleep as long as someone's on the sofa, etc. etc. If there are wooden floors upstairs, does that mean it's chilly on the floor where his bed is? Would a rug and extra blankets help, or a (lukewarm) hot water bottle? Is he maybe too hot, as adolescents apparently do run hot?

I would personally be really wary about letting him struggle on his own - adolescence is such a sensitive time, and it does seem that boys have bigger dips in confidence than girls - but your mileage may vary of course and he might be absolutely fine.

@YorkshireFelix Dear god, I’m sorry. You must both be knackered. Friday sounds like the ideal time. I think if it was me I’d have to give it a go. Not trying and knowing it was an option – albeit not one anyone enjoys – would send me spare.

Re @Bupster's rightful caution and I v much like the idea of a list and working out what works and where and what doesn’t and why – the thing only you know is whether he is actually struggling or whether he’s just being a pain in the arse. Yes, he presumably had a fright one night which triggered it, but is he now just trying it on because he knows that you’ll give in and go downstairs with him? Or is he still genuinely having an issue? Only you can have an idea of that, seeing it happen and seeing how he reacts.

Thank you @Bupster, I value everyone's advice on here gremlin or not! It really helps me weigh up if I'm doing the right thing or not.

I think that's what I'm slightly apprehensive about, I am worried about making things worse. But I feel like we've exhausted all of our options and are totally stuck.

I'll make a list like you suggest. He seems to have no issue sleeping anywhere in the daytime. Inside of his crate, outside of it, in his plastic bed, on the sofa, on the rug, on the hard floor, in the kitchen etc etc. With our bedroom he just paces around panting and fannies about trying to chew stuff, or frantically humps our duvet, whinges and barks at us until we go back downstairs. It's dark and quiet and I can't pinpoint anything that's hugely different to downstairs apart from that it's not downstairs!

@brushingboots I feel like I'm being mean but I do at this point think he's just being a pain in the arse. But obviously there's no way to know that for sure!!

@YorkshireFelix I am inclined to agree with you! It sounds like habit and, quite rightly, out of consideration for everyone else in the house (and beyond) you have possibly inadvertently perpetuated it. Seems like arsing around to me since it's not that he’s scared sleeping downstairs specifically because a) he manages fine during the day; b) when you’re out (!!); and c) he shuts up immediately as soon as he gets his own way and you come downstairs; and it’s not even that he needs you to be with him while he’s asleep because he won’t settle when he’s upstairs with you. To me that doesn’t sound like a dog in distress, but a dog that has worked out how to win and rather likes the taste of victory.

Perhaps I am being very uncharitable and if so I apologise to V x

I totally agree with you I think. Don't apologise to him, he doesn't deserve it 😂

Oh @YorkshireFelix, I'm so sorry. What a nightmare. No advice, but sympathy and oodles of it.

Betty would be the same if she wasn't crated at night (not suggesting that as a solution btw, as I know it's not right for every dog!). She finds it REALLY hard to settle and if there's any opportunity to get up and check the windows/doors/chimney/any reflective surface etc etc she will do so. It's almost like she needs the security (or possibly the restriction?) of the crate to actually be able to get to sleep, otherwise she has to be "on guard" the whole time. During the day, she naps outside her crate but she's never ever in any kind of deep sleep and she'll be up at the slightest noise or movement. She's absolutely shattered by the time she goes into her crate. In the evenings she often genuinely drops to the ground, mid-zoomies, in exhaustion! I'm hoping it eases up a bit once this fear period is over because I feel so sorry for her.

Speaking of crates, she has outgrown her FOURTH CRATE. We had already sized up from the one our last (fully grown adult!) dog used and went for one that said it was for dogs "up to 35kg" as there's no way she'll ever get that heavy. But because she's so LONG and she likes to sleep star-fished, she's outgrown the bloody thing already! So that's another £60 down the drain and I'm busy hunting for an extra-long foldable crate. Harrumph.

@peachgreen we’re on the 4th crate too! I should have bought his current one at the start as it has a divider. Midge sleeps well in his crate, we tried him out of it (same room, same noises) but he was woofing at cats/ foxes/ shadows all night.

@Bupster We’re just waiting for our 1st agility session. We might be a bit like you and Bill. He’s already growled at a horse (he’s around horses at the stables every weekend so don’t know what that was about) and chased a bit of paper halfway across the farm yard.
Wish me luck!

Morning all!

A lady in the village here just told me that I needed to train pupsy better – 'perhaps you need to do some proper training with her – do you do none at all?' – because her persistently barky, frankly quite aggressive chi barked loudly in her face and pupsy decided she'd had enough of that and told him off. Ironically we'd just finished a training session. I just laughed at her and said that actually all we do is train and that she doesn't like being barked at in her face – and nor do I. I'm satisfied that I don't need to take advice from a woman whose dog has clearly – as observed over a 14-month period – not had a day of training in its life since it goes around barking aggressively at other dogs.

Just a 10/10 start to the day! We live and learn, huh.

Oh @brushingboots how rude of that woman! Also, dogs barking is communicating right? I would communicate loudly if someone was in my face.

@YorkshireFelix This sounds so tough. The fact Belle is ok at night once we go up to bed has kept my sanity I think. I totally understand the not wanting to leave him to get distressed vs having to try anything that might work. I think I would lean towards having to try it. He is a loved dog, so the positives would hopefully outweigh any negative - and I know you would be listening in case things went too far. But such a tricky decision!

Also, did retrieves at puppy class last night. Finally, I thought, a chance to show off - as she will do it happily and return it right to my hand and then sit nicely… little bugger wouldn’t even bring it back. I was left saying, ‘she is normally really good at this’ 😂

@peachgreen ah thank you. This is why I'm so keen to get him back into sleeping in his crate at night, as he gets so disturbed by random noises etc. otherwise. We has always slept in his crate overnight with no issues from the day we brought him home until a month ago, so it's very frustrating!

You must have spent so much on crates already! They cost us a bloody fortune don't they.

@brushingboots I am glad that you haven't taken her comments to heart because she sounds like an absolute crank. I'm glad you told her straight! I had a man wander over with a little cockerpoo earlier whilst I was crouching down trying to pick up V's poo and the man and dog were perfectly friendly but my GOD people have no self awareness at all. He almost pulled me over into the shit to say hello to this bloody dog. Obviously it was a friendly interaction so not comparable to untrained dog crazy woman, but people are just so stupid.

@ComeTalkToMe I know, his previous great sleeping is probably the one thing that saved my sanity since we got him! He's doing quite well at the moment and the adolescent crazy behaviour has settled down slightly, so it's frustrating that he's having this issue as I'd probably be pleased with his progress otherwise.

Also that's so annoying about the retrieve! They have such a knack of doing that and showing you up 😄 I am sure they do it on purpose sometimes!!

Happy Pancake Day 🥞

Spoilt doggos have had pancakes with a salmon oil drizzle and a smidgen of whipped cream

@YorkshireFelix what’s your evening routine like? Do you do the same things in the same order each night? M’s bedtime varies a bit, but we do the same things each night which I think lets him predict what is happening.

Does he spend much time in your bedroom? If M goes into the sitting room (which is off limits usually) he goes a bit crazy with excitement and there’s no chance of him settling. Do you think it might help if he finds your bedroom really boring?
I can’t remember- does he settle in the crate downstairs if there’s someone on the sofa? If so can you gradually withdraw out of the room? If he’s not settling in his crate can you go back to the beginning with lots of nice things in there. Does he get fed in there?

I admit we were bad puppy parents and let Midge cry. It didn’t take many days to start to settle himself and it doesn’t seem to have affected his confidence. I stuck earplugs in and shut all the doors. He’s had a couple of wobbles 5-6 months and 9 months ish where we have had to go back to basics.

If you do decide to leave him to it and are worried about the neighbours; perhaps a bottle of wine, box of chocs and some earplugs might help with their understanding and sympathy for the cause.

I’m sorry if you have tried all of the above- they were things that helped us.

@tizwozliz
Do you make the pancakes yourself?

@ComeTalkToMe Quite! Honestly I didn’t blame pupsy at all. It isn’t nice to see your dog tell another dog off and it doesn’t sound nice either, but he certainly wasn’t going to be told so by his owner, since she allowed him to run up to us screaming his head off like a banshee.

Re retrieves – if it’s any consolation at all pupsy is brilliant at picking up and hunting for things but this morning – on the aforementioned training session – she wouldn’t bring anything back to me whatsoever. She was picking things nicely that I’d sent her for, or that I’d put down for her to hunt, but she’d then immediately drop them where she was again and just sit there waiting for her next instruction. Absolutely no interest whatsoever in bringing them back to me. We seem to have had a critical failure of that in a training environment as she’s got no delivery issue if we’re just playing, but if I make it a training exercise she just checks out when she’s meant to bring it back in. She absolutely loves training so I don’t get it. Dogs are weird.

@YorkshireFelix So many people are just bad or stupid or cluelesss, aren’t they? I had a similar incident last night, at dusk, with a black GSD that rushed us with no lights on (!!) barking its head off at pupsy who was just minding her own business while I was trying to pick up poo. I shouted ‘please just go away’ at it – as it once scared pupsy when she was quite little – and its owner vaguely seem to remember that he had a dog and walked the other way. The crucial difference between that dog and this morning’s chi is that pupsy could ‘take’ the chi but she’d have no choice against a massive GSD. Quite sick of other people this week, already.

@peachgreen how big is she expected to get to, eventually? In my head she’s tiny but actually I think Kerry Blues are more like Airedale sized, aren’t they?

Gorgeous girls! I have, rather pathetically, not got enough milk in to make more than one single pancake so I fear pupsy and I will be waiting until tomorrow when I can food shop for ours.

I've just booked Milo in for his check up for his knees.
He's had a few "incidents" let's say with his bowels on his medication. I woke up the other morning and it was literally a shit show shit all over the floor, walls and skirting boards, I literally didn't know where to start 😱😱😱
His legs are much better in terms of being able to stand up straighter and seems to be a little less drowsy.
We have been letting him off lead for 5-10 mins at a time and no longer.
He's having lots of rest time compared to excercise and more mental stimulation compared to physical exercise, tbh he's not having much at all and I do feel guilty that's probably why we have been letting him having the odd quick run.

Yes, I make the pancakes - American style rather than traditional - something similar to this recipe

https://forthglade.com/blogs/all-blogs/pancake-day

Although just regular flour (gf in my case as that's what I have) and greek yoghurt if I haven't bought kefir

@tizwozliz those pancakes look very tasty- and very good waiting!

@brushingboots miserable woman. Midge hasn’t told a dog off yet, but I’m sure that day will come as he gets older!

@CaptainBeanThief I hope the appointment goes well and you can get a bit of a plan. That’s miserable cleaning up crap. M had diarrhoea at 3 in the morning a few months ago, fortunately it was confined to his crate but that was bad enough.

Well we had our first agility session. It was 1-1 so no other distracting dogs.

M amazed me- he managed to do sit stays and waited for his release cue. He started by jumping over one low pole on lead and progressed to 3 low jumps off lead, waiting until he was called. I think we both enjoyed it. Lots of homework to do- increasing sit stay durations and also introducing left and right when we turn. I was very proud of him!

Yes we have always had the same routine each night. He's not usually allowed upstairs but I spent a good few days working from my bedroom with him in there with me to get him used to it, as he found it soooo exciting to be in a new room and it did work after a couple of days. We managed to get a couple of nights of him settling kind of ok, then it just went haywire and he started getting stressed up there but I've no idea why. Literally nothing changed at all! He is a complete mystery to me.

He won't settle in his crate at night even if we are still down there. I've tried a few times to go right back to basics like we did when we first got him - so sleeping right next to the crate so he's still with us then gradually moving away - but he just goes bonkers when we put him in there and doesn't let up.

Sorry I do appreciate you trying to help by the way! I know it sounds like I have an answer for everything but I really do as we've tried everything we can think of 😄

Oh poor you and poor M 🙁 I feel guilty for not being able to let V run about either. He gets a couple of short lead walks but I let him sniff to his hearts content and he does seem happy with that.

How are you finding it inside the house? I know V is much younger so he might be slightly more excitable, but I find it so hard when he gets excited and starts zooming around because I can't stop him! He is so fast. He spins in circles on the rug when DH and DD come home which is very cute but I just cringe because of his poor bloody leg.

That is amazing! What a good boy he is!