Breeder Red Flags

[ladyworm]

Hi,

I’m looking for our first family dog (toy or miniature poodle) through the Kennel Club website, Champdogs and through breed-specific Facebook groups.
I understand about avoiding puppy farms, listening to your gut, asking to view pups with mum, understanding what the pup will come with, how it has been socialised, and what treatment they have had from the vet.

For people who have done it before, what would you say were your red flags? What questions did you ask that I might be missing? What made you sure it was the right person/place to get your pup from?

One breeder has told me she isn’t giving the pups flea and worm treatment as they aren’t going to pick them up from anywhere. This seems strange, as everyone else is flea and worming their puppies?

thanks for your advice.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_doghouse/5253277-how-to-buy-a-puppy

Lots of discussion on that in this (currently active) thread.😊

Not giving flea treatment wouldn't bother me. I don't think that needs to start too young, especially if all other dogs in the home are treated regularly.

Not giving worm treatment is a bit more worrying. I would expect that to start when the puppy is about 2-3 weeks old and be reguarly given until they are rehomed.

Socialisation is a big one. You mentioned you know about that, but ideally I'd like to see a breeder that had a planned/organised approach to it vs just saying they will be exposed to normal household noises. I'd also like to see a breeder that offers lifetime behavioural advice for thier puppies.

Off the top of my head, red flags for me would include:

• the breeder owning both the mum and dad
• the breeder not being extra curious about me and the home the puppies are going to; they shoulk question you extensively
• the breeder not having a requirement that if the puppy ever needs to be rehomed, they are passed back to the breeder to do this (regardless of the dog's age by that point)
• no contract
• the contract not having a requirement to have a vet check within x days of taking the puppy home, with the opportunity to return for a full refund if the vet finds any serious medical conditions
• the breeder breeding multiple different breeds
• the breeder having more than 1 litter a year (except maybe a specific reason for doing 2 in an odd specific year)
• the breeder not being honest about the health issues their breed has and talking (with confidence/knowledge) about what they have done to mitigate risk in their own dogs
• a breeder who does not keep their breeding bitches after they are done with litters and/or who breeds bitches too much. More than maybe 2/3 litters per lifetime.
• A breeder who does not have multiple potential homes lined up before puppies are conceived (a waiting list)
• A coefficient of inbreeding that is higher than the breed standard

I wouldn't be worried about flea treatment - they shouldn't have fleas to treat! - but the breeder should absolutely have been worming the pups with a veterinary grade wormer at several stages since birth.

I would check that you haven't misunderstood this, but if they're not worming them I wouldn't trust the breeder myself. I guess perhaps they might say they are using some 'natural' remedy, and I'd evaluate that if I was told that, but they certainly shouldn't be doing nothing.

Thank you so much, this is so helpful.

Excellent post @NotAnotherBirthday !

Oh that's a serious red flag right there about worms.

The woman absolutely should not be breeding dogs {or any animal}

The pups will be rammed with roundworm, she's likely not been worming the bitch prior to pregnancy, but roundworm has a life cycle where when the bitch is pregnant, the worm larvae from the mother migrate to the pups in utero and via the milk when they are born.

Pups need worming from around two weeks old and then regularly.

{I have never bred any animals, but know about worming as a routine thing to do..in fact I wormed my dog today.

A lot of the pups one sees on those awful gumtree ads look 'wormy' - swollen bellies.

Do not buy from there!

@ladyworm Aside from the good advice re ''contracts'' and regular worming and good handling of the pups- another big one is going via a breed club.

Be prepared to wait for a puppy - it's well worth it to go on a list, and also, expect the person who will be breeding this litter to be giving you the Third Degree over the phone - and expecting to meet you before she allows a puppy to go home with you.
I could never breed any litter of any animal as would be so concerned about finding decent homes for them- but there are good breeders out there {usually ones who have a litter every few years to keep their ''line'' going.

Often these people have several females as they keep their show stock 'til grand old age- but only have one litter from each girl.

You should be seeing elderly happy dogs there as well as meeting mum.

The sire may live many hundreds of miles away, but pics of him can be seen.

Thanks that’s really interesting about asking about older dogs apart from the mum.

I've heard nonsense about ''furry rabbits ears'' being a 'natural wormer'- but they are not.

Possibly a dog with a high worm burden passes a few roundworms in a poo, with the hair, but our vet changes the wormers routinely so resistance doesn't occur as easily.

@ladyworm Also, when you do get your pup- get him or her used to having their teeth brushed by you daily -veterinary toothpaste like Virbac- keeps teeth white and breath fresh and saves on future 'dentals'. {hopefully!}

The breeder may be wormcounting the puppies and only worming when needed so maybe clarify how they are dealing with the worms if present. Not all puppies have worms

You have at least 1XL Bully cross on that website you’re not declaring to be an XL bully cross.
No evidence or proof of any health tests on any puppies yet you offer a ‘pay now option’

More red flags than the Chinese communist workers party annual conference.

If you’re a vet, I’m Angelina Jolie.