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Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - Bark the Herald, furry angels sing!

999 replies

YorkshireFelix · 26/11/2024 23:01

New thread to get us through the festive season! Angelic and naughty teenage pups all welcome Halo

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146
brushingboots · 31/12/2024 18:25

Pupsy was ten months old when she had her first and only season so that sounds about right! Like @tizwozliz we hardly had any interest either except for the obnoxious jackapoo to which I referred the other day. And she wasn't interested in any undone dogs either though admittedly we don't know many. It was a neutered dog that alerted me to her coming into season actually as his spidey senses were still intact even if the rest of him wasn't.

CoubousAndTourmalet · 31/12/2024 18:43

Thanks @tizwozliz and @brushingboots
9 months sounds about right then.

That GSD wasn't half making a racket yesterday and he was definitely looking across at Brie. He's maybe 18 months old or thereabouts, so we shall be wary; we really don't want to cause too many issues for his owners.
If the weather dries off a bit we'll stick her in the car and go up the moor.

We never had any dog issues with Rose & Sylvie, although as we also had Merlin at that time, we did tend to pack one of them off to stay with my folks. They didn't have a PMD of their own by then so they were always eager to borrow one of ours and they lived in rural Cumbria so it wasn't a problem to walk an in-season bitch.

None of our others were neutered and we certainly won't consider spaying Brie for at least another year. Because she never goes off the lead in public places we'll only spay if we do decide to get a boy pup. She definitely will not be bred though, none of them were. Judging from another thread, all the rescue centres are full of problem LGD - they are never easy to find homes for at the best of times 😞

brushingboots · 31/12/2024 18:51

@CoubousAndTourmalet I have been fascinated by that other thread and keep checking in on it to see more results. There are a couple of LGDs in rescues round here ish and it so interests me as before we met I hadn't even heard the breed group, and wonder where the popularity (in rescue at least) has come from. Is it that I just never looked or thought to consider the breed group, or are there more of them now in the UK, possibly because of the increased vogue for importing rescues?

Am logging all of these thoughts into the folder in my head about LGDs for the piece I'd like to write about them as I really think it's very interesting.

tizwozliz · 31/12/2024 18:52

We have an appointment next week to see if pup's spay can go ahead, otherwise it won't be until after her third season. Older one is coming along for moral support as pup is very nervous at the vets.

brushingboots · 31/12/2024 18:53

PS, hope it's not too windy for everyone else tonight. Just coming back from our walk and both look like we've been dragged through a hedge backwards – though to be fair to pupsy she has been in many hedges.

noctilucentcloud · 31/12/2024 19:15

I have a 12 1/2 year old puppy at heart (rescue dog). I got him at 8 years and don't think he'd been allowed off lead before - I well remember walks in the first year or so where he'd just get so over excited I'd have to lead him away to calm down or where you'd just want to cry. I was thinking over Christmas when he was off lead how far he's come and was feeling quite proud of how he's blossomed. He still likes to throw me a curveball sometimes though and can completely blot his copybook in the last 5 mins of a walk when he's been exemplary throughout!

CoubousAndTourmalet · 31/12/2024 19:28

brushingboots · 31/12/2024 18:51

@CoubousAndTourmalet I have been fascinated by that other thread and keep checking in on it to see more results. There are a couple of LGDs in rescues round here ish and it so interests me as before we met I hadn't even heard the breed group, and wonder where the popularity (in rescue at least) has come from. Is it that I just never looked or thought to consider the breed group, or are there more of them now in the UK, possibly because of the increased vogue for importing rescues?

Am logging all of these thoughts into the folder in my head about LGDs for the piece I'd like to write about them as I really think it's very interesting.

A huge proportion of the LGD's now are imported from Eastern Europe, mainly Romania, Bulgaria and, before the war with Ukraine, a lot were coming in from Russia. Then there's the Kangal dogs from Turkey. The dog with the strongest bite force in the world, allegedly. It's really not a good situation. These are not, in the main, suited to being family pets.

The problem with the Romanian dogs particularly is that a lot of them are not pure bred. That can be a worry. You've heard me say many times that LGD are specifically bred to have a low prey drive, because of what their role is and this is the reason why I'm against crossing them. There is now a designer cross called Pyredoodle and, not to put to fine a point on it, that scares the shit out of me! You take a giant guarding breed with almost zero prey drive, cross it with a high energy sporting dog with relatively strong prey drive.... then market it as some sort of gigantic, fluffy cute, hypoallergenic doodle dog. But you don't tell people it's a guard dog. That is dangerous thinking. Those Romanian dogs are LGD and who knows what. Street dog, hound, fighting dog.

Anyway, the most established LGD breeds in the UK have, for a very long time, been Pyrenean and Maremma and, to a lesser extent, the Estrela, Anatolian and Komondor. The PMD is arguably the most widely known and most "refined" of the LGD breeds, in that it is a little more suited to a domestic setting within a family home. The breed also had a history in the Royal Court of France with Louis XV using them to guard the chateaux. It is also, thankfully, the "prettiest" and thus seems to have less appeal to the macho hard men. They, in the main, like the Caucasians and Kangals. Some classify Cane Corso as a LGD also but neither that nor the Caucasian are true LGD. They are more property guards and have a fighting history also.

We cannot understand why some of these are not banned when the Tosa and Fila are but the Dangerous Dogs act really needs an overhaul.

Anyway, the situation with LGD being imported and ending up in rescue with problems is a worry for us. It could have wider implications for those of us who are long term, responsible owners of the long established Pyrenean, Maremma and Estrela. It won't take much for the LGD breeds, or just all guarding dogs to be classified as dangerous and need to be compulsorily muzzled.

These dogs need owners who are clued up on their heritage. You have to treat them with respect, you really cannot push them around. You should never forget that they are a guard dog; even the softest PMD should still be properly introduced to visitors to your home. It is essential that you know from the outset what you are getting into with a LGD, and these Romanian rescues are being taken in by families who think they are doing something kind and lovely but literally do not have a clue what these dogs are like to live with. Hence, they end up in rescue with problems.

It is worrying me a lot for the future of my breed. It has never had a bad reputation but that could so easily change.

CoubousAndTourmalet · 31/12/2024 20:47

brushingboots · 31/12/2024 18:51

@CoubousAndTourmalet I have been fascinated by that other thread and keep checking in on it to see more results. There are a couple of LGDs in rescues round here ish and it so interests me as before we met I hadn't even heard the breed group, and wonder where the popularity (in rescue at least) has come from. Is it that I just never looked or thought to consider the breed group, or are there more of them now in the UK, possibly because of the increased vogue for importing rescues?

Am logging all of these thoughts into the folder in my head about LGDs for the piece I'd like to write about them as I really think it's very interesting.

I should probably point out that in the UK, for showing purposes, the LGD appear under the Pastoral Group heading. The term LGD is just a subset, a bit like Herding Dogs is, which obviously also appear within Pastoral Group.

Also worth mentioning that LGD do NOT herd; most of them work alongside a smaller breed that does the herding. In our case Pyrenean Sheepdog would herd but Pyrenean Mountain Dog guards. Herding dogs need some degree of prey drive which LGD largely lack or don't have to any great extent. The herder works to command, guard dog does not. It is quite a unique group of dogs in this regard, working unsupervised off its own initiative/instincts.

They are fascinating and addictive, be warned 😁

CoubousAndTourmalet · 01/01/2025 00:00

Happy New Year, Everyone. Let's hope it's a good one xxx

CaptainBeanThief · 01/01/2025 00:02

Happy new year,
Sounds like a fucking war zone so Milo is a bit anxious unusually - he's not usually worried about fireworks so we are having snuggles on the sofa.
January is a difficult month for me, both my suicide attempts were in Jan so it's a blue month for me xx

CoubousAndTourmalet · 01/01/2025 00:08

CaptainBeanThief · 01/01/2025 00:02

Happy new year,
Sounds like a fucking war zone so Milo is a bit anxious unusually - he's not usually worried about fireworks so we are having snuggles on the sofa.
January is a difficult month for me, both my suicide attempts were in Jan so it's a blue month for me xx

Awww, poor Milo; fireworks are shit, but snuggles is always good. We're by the fire with Brie and we have music on to drown out fireworks, but the rain is bucketing down so there's not been much noise thus far...

Don't think about past Januaries, this one will be different.
Take it slowly xxx

CoubousAndTourmalet · 01/01/2025 02:30

2.30 am, some brain-dead moron thinking it's clever to let off bangers... 😡
Another sofa night for me with Brie, JS Bach and Harry Potter for company.

CaptainBeanThief · 03/01/2025 16:30

Right,
Milo is 17 months, 22 days old ( yes I calculated it on a online calculator for clarity 😅)
He's still a beautiful bellend!!
When does it end?!?!
@brushingboots your are slightly in front, send SOS

Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - Bark the Herald, furry angels sing!
brushingboots · 03/01/2025 16:37

@CaptainBeanThief Haha! His chest is SO fluffy!

Pupsy is 19 months, 18 days and she's 99pc super, but admittedly she has been 99pc super for a while and most of the training I do with her now is just for her enrichment and enjoyment. She's only a bit bonkers when she's out and about – which is when she's meant to be bonkers – and even then she is so much more attentive than she used to be. The only thing is barking during dinner but it is improving.

I realise that that might not help...! What is he doing to cause you such ire?!

CaptainBeanThief · 03/01/2025 16:44

@brushingboots
He needs another trim but I love playing with his chest hair 😬
He is coming together and id say is about 80% there now.
He is still nipping when excited( not unknown people) but me, my husband and my mum. We had my family around for tea he was so gentle with the children so he was really good in that respect.
I think maybe I'm just expecting it to happen all at once because he's at a certain age now,
He's good when he's out and about, he doesn't harass any other dogs but I don't feel his recall wouldn't go off track for one reason another just yet.
Some days I feel like yesss... We've cracked it and then he will out to himself and even shock me 😂

brushingboots · 03/01/2025 16:57

@CaptainBeanThief I think they all mature at different speeds – I'm sure someone said here (or elsewhere on MN) the other day about dogs maturing at a slower rate to bitches, and I can definitely believe that's true. Nor can we measure pupsy and Milo's maturity against each other's as they will have had totally different life experiences to one another, so don't use her (or anyone else's dog) as a guide to what he 'should' be like. I do it myself and it's silly as I only ever measure her against full-time working dogs which is dumb.

Re recall, do you use a whistle? Even if they're not doing anything gundog adjacent they are just super at breaking through the wind noise and they never reveal your frustration as the pip sounds the same whatever mood you're in! I use an Acme 210.5, which is the spaniel one, and I literally never go on a walk without it even if I don't use it.

YorkshireFelix · 03/01/2025 20:11

Gorgeous boy @CaptainBeanThief 😍

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YorkshireFelix · 03/01/2025 20:14

Had a mostly awful walk today. Pulled like a train the whole time and drove me insane. Was ok for a while off lead on the field, doing some great recall and enjoying stomping on some icy puddles with dd, but then he decided to fuck off into the undergrowth for what seemed like forever and would NOT come back at all. He got a scent and that was it! I tried every tactic and nothing worked and dd managed to grab his collar during the only time he came close to us. It scared the life out of me as he was going so far away and I couldn't see him. He will sometimes disappear for a few seconds in the woods but does always come back eventually but this time was different. I don't want to let him off ever again!

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CaptainBeanThief · 03/01/2025 20:23

@YorkshireFelix
Milo does this - as long as it's relatively secure-ish
I have a trust he will come back - it is scary though - when it first happened 😬😁 adolescence has definitely hit you and Vinny full force!
I'm sorry

YorkshireFelix · 03/01/2025 20:53

CaptainBeanThief · 03/01/2025 20:23

@YorkshireFelix
Milo does this - as long as it's relatively secure-ish
I have a trust he will come back - it is scary though - when it first happened 😬😁 adolescence has definitely hit you and Vinny full force!
I'm sorry

I think it was worse since dd was there and she is a huge panicker when it comes to Vinny because she loves him so much, and is scared of anything happening to him. If it was just me I think I would have handled it better.

It wasn't totally secure but not too bad. There's a train line down that side but there's a very high wire fence. But there is a gap which goes to the yard of a bakery with equipment etc in there which he got really close to running into which was the part which made me go AGHHHHH!!!!

He's been a menace today and has been chewing furniture again which he's not done for a few weeks!! And trying to bite my arms and hands constantly. He's just been a twat!

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YorkshireFelix · 03/01/2025 20:54

Also he was gobbling up frozen rabbit shit like it was going out of fashion 💀

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Bupster · 03/01/2025 20:58

YorkshireFelix · 03/01/2025 20:14

Had a mostly awful walk today. Pulled like a train the whole time and drove me insane. Was ok for a while off lead on the field, doing some great recall and enjoying stomping on some icy puddles with dd, but then he decided to fuck off into the undergrowth for what seemed like forever and would NOT come back at all. He got a scent and that was it! I tried every tactic and nothing worked and dd managed to grab his collar during the only time he came close to us. It scared the life out of me as he was going so far away and I couldn't see him. He will sometimes disappear for a few seconds in the woods but does always come back eventually but this time was different. I don't want to let him off ever again!

I've been living in fear of this. I've had to start going back to basics, putting him on a long line and then walking in the opposite direction as soon as he goes too far away from me - so far it's working and he's coming straight back to find me and sticking much closer, and being much more focused on me. But I've only been doing it in pretty constrained areas - tomorrow I'm planning to take him back to the Common and let him off lead and that's where he's been going deaf and dashing off after seagulls.

When we were away over Christmas and New Year he was an absolute nightmare, pulling like a train every time I walked him anywhere new, and as for stopping in the woods on the way there and back, OH MY GOD. It took me half an hour to get him back in the car when he was on the lead. Might be a while before I let him off lead anywhere near woodland... He also refused to nap while away and on New Years Day I had to take him out for walks/poos SEVEN TIMES. I did 26,000 steps. He stayed awake from 6:45am to 11:30pm.

Here's the little dickhead being sweet for my puppy sitter. Who I had to get in at zero notice to dickhead-sit today while I drove 45 minutes to a KFC in the arse end of the A57 to pick up my phone which I dropped while dickhead-wrangling, after I had to get him out of the car for a walk before he chewed through my seatbelt in outrage at being in the back of the car rather than up my jumper 🙄.

Adolescent Dog Survival Thread - Bark the Herald, furry angels sing!
CaptainBeanThief · 03/01/2025 20:59

There's nothing worse than an adolescent spaniel.
They are the spawn of satan - the devil incarnate but because they have floppy ears and cute eyes you can forgive them at the end of the day but the next day they are at it again and before you know it they are 15 months and you are too far in to give up 😂😂😑

CaptainBeanThief · 03/01/2025 21:00

Well I'm happy that you are all starting to experience what I have been for the past ten years well feels like it
😝

CaptainBeanThief · 03/01/2025 21:03

Milo chewed through a seat belt in my hire 71 plate Corsa which I had for 9 months and he just had to do it when it was going back in the next month ( mine was having some problems with insurance issues etc)
My husband is a mechanic by trade so he managed to get a company to repair the ONE seatbelt but he could fit himself -
This is why we have to muzzle him in the car
Because he is a twat 😂😂