Please help – serious puppy blues!

[peachgreen]

We got our 10 week old pup last week. We rescued her from a shelter – we went to look at getting an adult dog (as we knew we wanted to rescue) but they recommended this particular puppy instead as we have a 7 year old. She is a terrier/shih tzu mix and she is very sweet, but I am just not coping with the puppy stage AT ALL.

As some background, we had a Patterdale for 3 years who sadly died he was just 4 from a heart condition. He was DP’s dog and came as part of the package when he moved in with us last year, but he was a lovely (although not always easy) dog and I really enjoyed having him as part of our family. Having said that, if I’m honest when he died I would have been happy enough not getting another dog — I missed him but also relished the freedom and the peace and quiet. But DP and DD were both desperate for another dog and I could see that having a dog had a beneficial impact on our family life (more outside time, great for our mental health, DD is an only and loved finally having a “sibling”). So I agreed to go for it.

DP has had dogs all his life, and has had two other puppies, and he did warn me that it would be challenging. But God, I had no idea how hard it would be. It’s like having a baby – people warn you but they can’t really get across how hard it is. It’s only day 6 and I have cried every single day so far, including crying myself to sleep most nights. I wake up miserable and go to bed miserable, even if there are times in the middle that are bearable. I hate it. It’s like a bomb has gone off in my life and everything is completely out of control.

Giving her up is not an option – DD and DP would be heartbroken and I believe that rescuing a dog is a commitment that you can’t go back on (unless she displayed aggression towards DD, obviously). So I guess I’m just desperately asking for help, support and understanding. I feel like an awful person for feeling this way – I KNOW none of this is her fault, she is just a baby and she had a tough start in life, but God, it’s hard.

Things I’m finding particularly challenging:

1. Toilet training. Being vigilant about watching her ALL THE TIME is exhausting, and then so often it doesn’t even help. Today I spotted her toilet cues, took her out, stood in the rain for nearly half an hour to no avail, brought her back in the house and in the time I was taking my coat off she had pooed and peed on the floor. While I was cleaning that up she peed again in another room. DP gives me breaks to have a bath etc but I feel guilty every time I’m not there so I can’t really relax.
2. Sleep. We’re continuing her crate training (they had already started in the shelter) and during the day she’s absolutely fine – she goes in happily and although she doesn’t settle as well as she would if we let her just sleep on us / the floor, she does settle. But at night she barks and barks, and has pooed in her crate within minutes of us leaving her sight 4 nights out of 5. (We notice immediately obviously and bath her etc.) It feels like we’ve tried everything – sitting with her until she falls asleep, leaving a podcast on, shushing her, gradual retreat, changing her feeding time – but nothing helps. We can’t fit the crate in our bedroom and I don’t want her sleeping on our bed (upstairs is my daughter’s “safe zone” so dogs have never been allowed up there), and we don’t have a spare room etc so we can’t temporarily have one of us sleep in with her. It means we’re not getting to sleep until really late and then we’re just exhausted. I’ve had Covid and am really struggling to recover because I’m not getting enough sleep.
3. Early mornings. I’m not a morning person and never have been. Our old dog would happily sleep until 9. The idea that I have to be up at 7 every day for however long is making me want to weep.
4. Not being able to leave the house. She hates being left alone – which I know is normal – and I have no idea if or when DP and I will be able to leave the house again together! DD’s dad died when she was 2 and having DP in our lives, becoming a family, has been so healing for both her and I – now we’re back to having to do things separately and honestly, it’s making me so sad. We take the pup with us in the sling when we can but things like food shopping, DD’s gymnastics class, school events – there’s just no way we can do them as a family and I can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. We’ve been trying to leave her for short periods to get used to it but with her so often pooing in her crate as soon as we leave, it’s really tricky to do. The poor thing has had more baths in 6 days than our last dog would have had in months!

Please someone reassure me it gets better and it’s all worth it? As ridiculous as this sounds, it’s reminding me so much of when I had a newborn – when I had severe PND and psychosis, and tried to commit suicide – and it’s genuinely triggering awful memories of that time. The reason I only have one child is because I never wanted to risk going back to that place!

Please be kind. I realise I sound pathetic and I should have expected all of this. I just had no idea how hard I would find it and I don’t know how to cope.

You don’t sound pathetic at all - I felt the same way with our latest puppy. Add in a parasite that took months to shift, I was on my knees. I spent hours trawling through posts on here, and other sites, desperately trying to reassure myself that it would all work out ok, and the thought of returning her did cross my mind (but, like you, it would have caused a huge amount of heartbreak for the rest of the family)

We are now almost exactly two years to the day since she came home, and she is honestly one of my proudest achievements. She is well and truly one of the family, and the puppy days are far behind us. I’m not going to lie, it took months for us to get to a better place (but the was massively down to the bug she was carrying - toilet training took far longer and any puppy I’ve had before and I didn’t get a solid nights sleep for about 6 months because of it) and the improvements weren’t immediately obvious.

But it DOES get better. Toilet training will work, you just have to be consistent. It is rubbish standing outside in the rain and cold but if you stick to it, she will learn. She’s still very young and it does take them a little while to get it. Same with sleep. We crate trained but I spent months sleeping on the floor next to the crate because it was the only way to settle her. I’m not recommending this, but being close to someone does help them. And build up the time she’s left alone, we left ours for short amounts of time from the week we got her - the same way we did with previous puppies - and we’ve fortunately never had to worry about separation anxiety. That is very common with young puppies, does again, it does get better.

Before you know it, the nippy, peeing, pooing little pup will become your best friend and you won’t be able to imagine life without her. The horrendous puppy blues will fade in to the distance and you will be able to enjoy her. Take some time for yourself when you can, and breathe. Just like with a new baby, this too shall pass

I am typing this hiding upstairs in our bedroom because I needed a break from our 15-week-puppy. I hear you, I get you, I’ve cried as well!

Right, let’s talk practical steps first. Try putting puppy pads down near the back door so if she doesn’t do her business outside straight away, you’ll catch it coming in. Then take the soiled pad into the garden and use whatever toilet command to show her that’s where she should be doing it. Apparently it can take weeks or even months for puppies to nail it so use the pads for now.

Crating - do you really need her crated? We gave up after the most horrendous first night of her crying and trying to escape and we never looked back. Our pup sleeps on her bed in the lounge with a stairgate across the door to hallway and is happy as Larry while we sleep upstairs. She can stretch out on floor too, has all her toys to play with if she stirs and while we put pads down, she’s going through the night without using them. There’s no separation anxiety either when we got out - we pop the radio on and leave her in the lounge and she’s fine. Yes, we have puppy proofed the room (hiding cables etc) but she hasn’t chewed anything - probably because she has all her toys available. Crating isn’t the be all and end all so just leave the door open!

Morning get-ups - why is it just down to you? Do a family rota so you all take turns, like you would with a baby and lie-ins!

Finally, tell your DP how triggered it’s making you so he can share the emotional burden. I’ve said more than once to my DP that I find myself really hating our pup! Like you, I never grew up with dogs whereas he did. He’s been great at letting me rant while reassuring me that it will get easier. And it is, and every day I love her even more. Now I’ll just finish my cup of tea in peace before I go back downstairs!

How do you stay in bed until 9am with a 7 year old?

@WellyBootsandPuddleSuits @DowntonNabby Thank you both so much for your kind words and solidarity. Honestly I can’t tell you how much it helped to just get all this out. I’ve been trying my best to hold it in because it feels so cruel and unkind – she’s just a wee baby, she needs us and in the grand scheme of things she has been very good, she’s gentle when taking food she’s responsive, she loves a snuggle, etc etc. Unfortunately my two biggest triggers are lack of sleep and an untidy home and that comes with the territory with a puppy! It was naive of me to think I would cope, really. But I’m determined to, for DD and DP – and for our wee pup.

I just had a long talk with DP who has been wonderful and so understanding. He’s suggested I have a lie in every weekend – I offered him one in return but he said he prefers to just get into routine and get up first thing every day. He’s also said that I should get myself dressed and ready before coming downstairs so I feel like I can face the day – he’s happy to do the early morning pee / breakfast routine so that I can a) get ready and b) concentrate on DD as I love our mornings together and feel I’ve been neglecting her a little. So that has helped already. He was very understanding of the fact that this is my first puppy and also that a big driver for me in getting her was for his sake – he’s said he’s happy to take the burden and that if I wasn’t here he’d be doing it alone so any help is a win! (Yes he is a ridiculously good man.)

We also talked about the crate. He has never crate trained his puppies before – he had them before it became the recommended thing – and has been having second thoughts himself. Honestly @DowntonNabby I hadn’t even considered not using it until now, as silly as that sounds. And it’s been so miserable for us all! She just wants to sleep on or near us, and she hates being shut away. We don’t really have a room that can be puppy-proofed, but we do have a large pen that she goes in during the day when we’re working. So we’re going to trial that – letting her sleep wherever we are during the day, and then at night we’ll take her out for her last toilet, then put her in her pen (which attaches to her large crate, so we’ll put her bed in there) and let her sleep in there. That way she won’t feel shut in, hopefully, and if she DOES have an accident it won’t be in her bed and will be easier to clean up. And we will then trial closing her crate for short periods as she starts to get more comfortable with it, just in case we do ever need to close it for whatever reason (travelling, mostly).

Thank you again for listening, and for being so kind. I hugely appreciate it.

@ginasevern DD has always been a late sleeper. During the week I have to wake her for school at 8, and at the weekends she will happily sleep until 8.30, and then read in her bed. I get up at 9 and go in to her, she rarely comes in to us unless she’s poorly or had a bad dream or whatever – not through any “training” (she can tell the time and knows that “morning” starts at 8 so she could get up any time after that) but just because she loves her bed! I know how fortunate I am there.

This struck me: DP gives me breaks when it's essentially his choice to have a puppy. It sounds a much better balance if he takes on most of it and you are there to give him breaks.

Our puppy was my decision and is therefore my burden. DP has got up with her if I'm ill, and will walk her if I'm away; otherwise I know it's down to me. And that's fine.

@ApriCat That was poor wording on my part – DP is definitely taking the heavier end of the burden for sure. I feel guilty about that but perhaps I should try and address that myself – I don’t think he would ever expect me to.

It does get better - promise.

But, what I would say, is whilst crate training is amazing it’s amazing for the right dog.

Personally, I would never leave a rescue dog in a crate - I’d give them the option, but I wouldn’t force it. She’s probably incredibly stressed and remember - she spent a long time in a cage. It’s not like getting a puppy from scratch where they had mum and siblings. If you have a safe (hazard free) area, maybe in your bedroom or similar I’d have her there (crate doors open).

Are puppy threads untaxed? 🤔
Am here for the pic 😁

@peachgreen First things first, you can do this! Everything you’re feeling is absolutely fine. Things WILL get better. There is a lovely, non-judgemental, supportive puppy thread here where many of us have whinged – you’ll see on there how normal everything you’re experiencing is, if that’s any consolation, which I hope it is.

The constant vigilance stage is, though appalling, temporary. You really won’t be watching her for poos and wees forever, even if this week has felt awful. She is still so, so tiny but they grow up really quickly and this too will pass.

I remember this stage so well. I had chronic puppy blues last year and tried to give my (perfectly ordinary, not destructive, not awful) puppy away every single day on walks. I haven’t got kids (yet) and I constantly compared how I was feeling to what I imagine PND is like. I used to go upstairs or to the loo and cry and wail, just to get away from her: I’d make sure she had had a wee and then I’d just get away for an hour, even though all she was doing was being a puppy. As a result she quickly learned how to be on her own and settle in her bed, and while I wouldn’t recommend the human crying and wailing, I would recommend that, if you can, you get her used to being on her own, bit by bit, so you can get your freedom back.

There’s an excellent Facebook group called Dog Training Advice and Support which is really worth joining as they have some superb (free) guides, and lots of information on everything you’re dealing with. Their approach to getting puppies used to being on their own is called (something like) the flitting game, and it’s a good way to get them used to being alone.

When she can go out on walks things will ease and you’ll be able to find some more joy – in teaching her things, in getting to see the world through her eyes. Your partner sounds lovely and him volunteering to do the mornings will surely help you hugely. For what it’s worth, I didn’t crate my pup, didn’t even buy one and it didn’t do her any harm – in fact, I actually think it’s helped now as I didn’t need to teach her to settle outside a crate. She slept in the kitchen from the first night and never wet her bed – she did have accidents but only ever on or near the doormat so I appreciated that she’d tried to go outside.

You are not alone and you’re not pathetic x

@peachgreen I'm glad the replies are making you feel better and it's brilliant your DP has listened and is going to take over the bulk of things. As for crating, my DP had exactly the same reservations having never crated his dogs growing up either. Our breeder and their breeder never crated either. I've read up on it since and it's very much a modern day practice that originates from the States where people crate their dogs to go out to work all day. Did you know it's actually illegal in Sweden and Finland to crate your dog except for the purposes of transportation? Obviously crating does work for many, many dogs or it wouldn't be so popular, but it does strike me as being like the Gina Ford cry-it-out method for puppies! Yes, puppies take to it, but what other option do they have? Anyhow, it sounds like the set up with the play pen attached and keeping the door open is a great compromise and hopefully you'll be able to sleep peacefully tonight in your own bed too!

When she can go out on walks things will ease and you’ll be able to find some more joy – in teaching her things, in getting to see the world through her eyes.

This! Starting the walks does feel like a game-changer. Cabin fever be gone!

Puppies are truly awful. We got ours in August and I cried so much at the start. I found it so hard and he wasn't even a difficult puppy! But it really does get better! The weeks go by so fast and they change so quickly.

We crate trained ours but he generally prefers to sleep outside of it in the daytime now he's a bit older. It was invaluable for enforcing naps when he was really small though. BUT you don't have to crate train. I've learnt that some dogs just simply don't like it and there's a few who were on the puppy thread that managed with baby gates and puppy proofing rooms. I slept on the sofa for the first couple of weeks which helped him settle at night so it might be worth one of you trying that and having the crate door open to see if that helps?

Toilet training took a while and it was such a slog but it just clicked eventually. My pup was about 4.5 months when he got it, and took much longer than I expected. I thought it would be a couple of weeks max, naively! I remember standing outside for AGES waiting for him to do something then he would just pee as soon as we went back inside. I honestly thought he would never go outside at one point. I spent a day carrying him from crate, to outside, back inside in a loop with no paws on the floor inside. He held his pee for 6 hours but went outside eventually! Honestly it can be such a slog but if you're doing the right things then your pup will get there. We bought some of those bells for the back door and he's recently started associating them with being let out which is a really useful trick as I can't always see him stood there waiting.

Also I totally get the freedom thing. It really is hard. My DH works 7 days a week so I'm on my own with dd and pup 90% of the time, and not being able to just pop out to the shop or go out with dd has been one of the hardest aspects for me. I have to plan my life with military precision around the bloody dog! I've recently discovered click and collect at the local supermarket so I can just bundle everyone up in the car and they bring my shopping out when I arrive, which is a game changer when I'm not organised enough to sort a delivery. It's hard when dd wants to go to the cinema or go out shopping etc, and we can't because there's no one to have the dog. Hopefully as he gets older and we can leave him longer this will slowly get better.

My pup is 5 months and we've only just started leaving him for very short periods of time (less than 30 minutes). He doesn't like being in the crate unless he's sleeping at night so I felt like he was too small to leave roaming around until now. He's a bit more trustworthy at this age! I bought a WiFi camera from Amazon for £20 (Tapo brand) and it's amazing for checking on him. Also useful as a night time monitor too. Would really recommend it as it gives you peace of mind. Usually he's just laid on the sofa waiting for me to come back 😄

Also second the puppy thread on here!! It has been invaluable for me. It's so nice to be able to talk to such lovely people who just 'get' it. I've had amazing advice and it's made things a bit easier for me over the past few months.

https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/dog-advice/training/home/crate-training

Crate training… it’s not leaving an upset puppy in a crate.

The advice here is very measured but definitely errs on the side of "expect the training to take time", which doesn't really help when you're trying to crate your puppy on the first night and they panic/cry/try to escape/soil inside!

My dog is 8 and I still remember the puppy blues.

I think I wanted to throttle any poster that said their puppy was easy and a breeze 😬

All I will say is that it will get better but yes it can feel overwhelming when you have a bitey, peeing, pooing bundle of fluff that seems to go from zero to 100 in seconds. I can laugh now at the times he used to launch himself at the window blinds or the witching hour of zoomies but at the time I could have cried 😀

We have a very easy placid nearly 4-year-old dog that we had since he was 10 weeks old. He is a dog that you can take anywhere, can leave at home for hours, is super calm in the house and sleeps in as late as midday (or as long as there's someone still in bed).

My advice (and this may be controversial on MN): GET RID OF THE CRATE. Our dog has never been crated and just snoozed on the sofa (or bed 😬). It may be not everyone's cup of tea, but we NEVER had any sleep issues and he slept through the night until late from a very young age. When we leave the house he just sorts himself out and goes to sleep (we have pet cams). I personally think caging dogs is cruel and they behave much better when given the freedom to be part of the household.

Also get a reliable dog sitter/walker so you can enjoy your time as a family without the dog again.

You are all so so kind, I don’t know how to thank you enough. I will reply properly tomorrow and update you on how tonight goes with the new arrangement.

@brushingboots it absolutely feels like PND to me and I have had it! It’s not quite as intense but it is that same sense of hopelessness, the feeling that I’m just getting it all wrong and the sense that I’m just not the right kind of person to do it. I remember feeling the same way about co-sleeping with DD – everyone kept suggesting it and I just couldn’t stand the idea of there not being one place in the world that was just for me and DH. I feel the same about having the puppy in our bedroom – I really want my bedroom to be a place I can go to retreat. But then I feel like I’m just being selfish and I should never have got a puppy because I’m not prepared for the sacrifices it involves etc etc. It has done an absolute number on my mental health and it’s even showing in my face – I look haggard and old. And it’s only been a week!

Oh, and sorry, here is the puppy tax. She really is a gorgeous wee thing – utterly unique-looking (nobody would breed a Kerry Blue and Shih Tzu on purpose!) and a sweet nature. I just wish I could do better for her.

Oh she's gorgeous! And you are doing better for her – coming on here to seek help proves it. Hope you have a better evening and look forward to the update tomorrow! x

Oh I could have written this, almost 2 years ago to the day! Those 1st 8 weeks were so hard, harder than having a human baby - when my human baby cried in the night I used to just put her in my bed, whip a boob out and go back to sleep! So wow, puppy blues are real! I spent her 1st weeks with us wondering if I'd made a huge mistake and thinking I'd never sleep again... Used to have to put a hot water bottle in her crate to lie on and dog heartbeat sounds on youtube. After a couple of weeks she started sleeping soundly in her crate for up to 12 hours, one day it just clicked. Same with the toilet training, after thinking we'd never get there one day we did, she was about 12 weeks and literally had her last accident indoors before never doing it again. And I've loved her so much after having her for 2-3 months, I just needed to adapt and you do too, and you will.

I'd persevere with the crate training though to keep her safe while you can have some freedom.

But there isn’t a quick fix for that - if your puppy does that, you need to rethink your plans basically.

A lot of puppies will be ok in a crate next to you and you can crate train them over a few days, a week and then after that move away from the crate or move the crate away from you if that’s not where it’s going to be longterm.

Some take a bit longer.

Some, especially a rescue or an older dog you have to either accept it’s going to be a really long process or rethink it.

Leaving a stressed upset puppy in a crate isn’t crate training, it’s just confining a stressed upset puppy.

We did rethink our plans - we stopped after one night. Absolutely the right decision for our pup. She self-settles in her bed, sleeps through and naps steadily in various places during the day.

I remember sobbing over my first pup that if I didn’t love her so bloody much she would be going back. Puppies are HARD!!!
The training group dog training advice and support group on FB is great. They have a book too.

1. limit her access to other rooms. Taking your coat off? Keep her with you.
2. sleep with her. I slept in the kitchen next to the crate with pup one as she needed me near so she could sleep but we couldn’t have her upstairs. Plus not leaving her until she’s happy to be left will end up with you being able to leave her without issue when she’s older. Hang on in there.

I have two dogs - both rescues, one is fully crate trained, one has some fairly major behavioural difficulties and because one of them is getting panicky about being confined he’s only partially crate trained, he can’t cope with the door closed.

The idea that seems to somehow stick around that you can just lock a dog in a crate and eventually they’ll cry it out and be ok there is not good, the odd dog will just sort of get used to it, but mostly it just causes stress for everyone, them, you and it’s more likely to cause issues down the line with being left, secure dogs cope better alone than anxious ones.

Crate training done properly is great, really useful for lots of reasons and should be a positive experience for the dog, but it’s not an absolutely essential thing for all dogs and all owners.

funnily enough of my two - the untrained one is the one you’ll mostly find sleeping in the open crate through the day when he could choose anywhere in the house 🤣

@peachgreen Our dog doesn't sleep in our room and never has – she's always been downstairs. She's allowed upstairs and comes up to bed in the mornings after she's had a wee for a cuddle but like you I felt (and still feel) a strong desire to have a place where she wasn't, and isn't, for at least a part of the day. Stick to your guns – it's not selfish for you to want your own space, it's self-preservation and will help you build a relationship with her as you won't resent her being everywhere all the time.

You can do it and you will x