Dog bit Child

[purpleme12]

When we went to visit family we met one family member's new dog.
They got him in the summer. So he's still a puppy, or teenage dog?
We all arrived together so there were 6 of us along with 3 the dog already knew there.
Dog was barking which is fine. I know dogs bark around new people. But dog also growling.
But they're saying he's fine he won't hurt.

So dog wasn't happy and wouldn't settle. Dog taken a bit away from people because not settling at all and with owner.
So in the next room.
My child (10) went into room, went past dog, across room to get something and the dog went up and bit her on the arm! Clearly because he was in this riled up state
And dog had to be pulled off her.

She wasn't 'hurt' but was upset and shocked as you would be. I've never been bit by a dog in all my dog encounters

They say he's never acted like this before and this is not like him at all

I thought this was dangerous? I am wary now.
How would you expect the owner to react?
Would this happen again?

They're certainly shit at supervising the dog. Both your daughter and their dog were put in an awful situation because of them.
At the very least they need to constantly supervise and train the dog going forward. It depends what breed too.

You say the owner put the dog in another room presumably because she was growling / uncomfortable.

If I did this as a precaution when I had guests I would then not expect the guests to go into that room knowing there was a growling dog in there?

Or have I misunderstood

I am reading all replies and taking all on board but please can people not say that he was playing

I can perhaps concede that maybe it wasn't what people here might class as an 'aggressive bite', fine, but it wasn't play

Border collies need a lot of careful training, exercise and stimulation to avoid behavioural problems, and unfortunately large numbers of them end up in homes that are completely unable to meet their needs.

They're also herding dogs and will, if left to their own devices, nip and herd people around and try and get them all into one place.

A dog who was clearly scared and overwhelmed should have been put well away from all visitors and your 10 year old should certainly never have been able to go into the same room as it.

Poor management is the reason for so, so many dog bites - it doesn't mean the dog is dangerous or needs anything "doing" - it just means the owners need to buck their ideas up and make sure their dog is allowed its' own space in the future.

Why not?
It might have been play - agressive and inappropriate play but play even so.
Lack of damage suggests play, if a dog really wants to hurt a human skin would be broken as a minimum
I am not saying it wasn't frightening for your child and of course the owners need to address the behavior but based on your account I do think it was play

How old is the dog now?

I grew up with collies and they wouldn’t be my first choice for a pet now, but all young dogs can be absolute dickheads and some dogs can be mouthy, bitey pains in the arse for a long time. The summer was only a few months ago… how I’d react to this depends on how old the dog was, what the child was doing at the time, and whether i thought it’s needs ( training, enrichment? etc) were being met by its owners - I don’t think many owners can genuinely meet a border collies needs.

Nothing. The dog growled to say it was uncomfortable. The owner removed the dog to a seperate room to avoid problems. A child then was allowed to go into a room with a growling dog in it. I would say better parenting/supervision is the solution. Dogs growl to communicate they are uncomfortable and to say 'back off' or 'get away from me'. Good dogs do this to give people a chance to stop what they are doing. Same as humans really. The owner did right by removing the dog to a quiet space (for the good of dog and visitors). The only wrong thing was the child going into a room with a dog after what happened.
The dog did nothing wrong and should not be punished.
It does not sound like a bite anyway if it did not break skin more a 'warning' which is the stage after growling and before a proper bite.
The parent should be PTS (joke!)

Parent of child I meant (PTS for not supervising their child properly)

Ok

I’d ask it’s put away on visits. Growling beforehand suggests it can’t cope and isn’t particularly friendly.

Growling essentially means fuck off or stop doing that, it was likely there were signs before the growling, dog was put in another room but likely found the sounds and new smells a bit much, a stranger then approaches which is too much for the dog.

Children shouldn’t be alone with dogs, while dogs should never be punished for growling, children shouldn’t be around a dog who is feeling so uncomfortable they feel the need to growl, in that situation everyone needs space. Even now our dog will growl at the monster that lives in our house (the hoover), so we keep it in a cupboard so we don’t have the risk of anyone startling him while trying to scare the hoover away. I don’t think he would bite us out of fear, but we prefer to further reduce the chance of that happening for everyones sake.

On top of that puppies of that age can be absolute nightmares, ours at that age was either asleep, eating or biting. A puppy biting isn’t always a playful lunge, bite and prat about, it can be a good growl and a chomp of the arm, that isn’t necessarily aggression, puppy mates will play like that. It doesn’t make it any less irritating.

This thread reminds me of a few years ago when my small cute fluffy dog was in the park with me. He's an older dog and was sniffing about doing his doggy stuff when two children came up and started trying to grab him. He ran away and they followed him screaming and trying to grab his tail.
The dad was in the park with the kids. I said to him ' you probably don't want to let your kids chase dogs like that in case they get bitten or something'. I was trying to be polite. What I meant was ' Yo knobhead get your fucking kids to behave and stop annoying my dog who was minding his own business'

The dad turned round and rather than saying 'oh yes you're right, sorry wasn't paying attention' said ' if your dog bites them it will be your fault and I'll call the police'

Luckily my dog is very placid and likes people so he just kept moving away from screaming kids and of course hearing the dad I put the dog on his lead and took him away from the kids who were still trying to poke at him.

You couldn't make it up.

At least the OP here has listened to what has been said and taken it on board so no shame in that.

Border collies are no joke. They are lovely dogs but ultimately are working animals and need to be able to channel that. They can become neurotic and anxious if not handled and trained correctly by someone that knows what they are doing. The owners need to get professional help and work on socialising their puppy before something worse happens and the dog does get put down

Puppies often play very inappropriately (to us) - they jump, use teeth, growl and can draw blood and knock people over very easily. It's up to the owners to teach them that those behaviours aren't appropriate (and to teach alternate behaviours in many cases).

When mine was that age, he would often jump up and bruise us, catch us with his teeth and generally act like a hooligan. He wasn't aggressive, he was just learning how to play properly around people.

100% was not a nip. Puppies nip in play this was not play. It’s a 6 month already aggressive dog with utter shite owners. Needs putting down. Already too many dangerous dogs out there with shite owners

You have absolutely no way of knowing that. It's a 6 month old overstimulated border collie.

I reiterate, I hope to God you don't have dogs

Edited to also add, it was not a bite either. It was a nip as the child wasn't injured. If it was an aggressive bite, there would have been blood.

Of course it was a border collie. Course it was. Notorious for being nervous aggressive and biting without warning. This will only get worse.

Yep I have dogs and if any of them bit anyone they would be put down straight away no question

This incident wasn't the dogs fault OP, it's a puppy and was overwhelmed and had already used its voice to tell you all this. The owner is at fault and so are you to a lesser extent. Leave the training to the owner and use more caution next time. Overwhelmed dog that's been taken away from the main excitement doesn't need a child coming in the room with it, you don't need to trust the owner, next time pay attention to what the animal is telling you. If the dog wanted to harm your child it would have, but not breaking the skin is not as aggressive as it could have been. I hope your DD is ok and won't be afraid of dogs going forward.

Thanks yes will bear this in mind if ever happens again and just stay away

There was a clear warning? The PP just chose not to act on it.

I'm not responding to you anymore.

Me and the vast majority know you're wrong.

Do not let your children anywhere near that dog again. A bite is a bite. He’s not safe.

I'm sorry I 'chose not to act on it'

It wasn't like he was continuously growling the whole time or sitting in that room growling. But yes he had been growling at times as well as barking.

I have taken on board the best thing to do. My child didn't go near the dog in the room and ignored it but yes she did go in the room.

We will learn the best thing is to stay well away full stop

Best out mine down too then 🤣🤣

Same 😂 should’ve put mine down at 5 months old! Would’ve saved so much money on the training and socialisation classes