Dog bit Child

[purpleme12]

When we went to visit family we met one family member's new dog.
They got him in the summer. So he's still a puppy, or teenage dog?
We all arrived together so there were 6 of us along with 3 the dog already knew there.
Dog was barking which is fine. I know dogs bark around new people. But dog also growling.
But they're saying he's fine he won't hurt.

So dog wasn't happy and wouldn't settle. Dog taken a bit away from people because not settling at all and with owner.
So in the next room.
My child (10) went into room, went past dog, across room to get something and the dog went up and bit her on the arm! Clearly because he was in this riled up state
And dog had to be pulled off her.

She wasn't 'hurt' but was upset and shocked as you would be. I've never been bit by a dog in all my dog encounters

They say he's never acted like this before and this is not like him at all

I thought this was dangerous? I am wary now.
How would you expect the owner to react?
Would this happen again?

Your daughter's 10. I'm not surprised that she didn't know disturbing an overwhelmed puppy is a stupid move and I'm really sorry that she had to learn this way, because it is a horrible thing to happen. However lesson learnt. If a dog is overwhelmed enough that the owners remove it, then disturbing it is a really silly thing to do.

Training the dog isn't your responsibility. Your responsibility is to your child - the owners need to ensure he is well socialised and understands stressful situations like this before children are in the mix. Your job is to have a quick
Word and make sure if your child is around the dog is elsewhere, crated, or under firm active control.

The owner was really upset after it all happened because he had never acted like this and she never expected this to happen

Oh she's 10! Definitely need to have a talk with her about respecting dog space - she's learnt a lesson here and it's actually a valuable one.

Although no one asked if my child was ok or said sorry.

Obviously what would be done to stop the behaviour would depend on the cause and no one here can judge that - we can only offer educated guesses. They need professional in person guidance really but in the meantime if you wish to see them and the dog will be present…..

I would personally advise the dog be on lead and kept with the owner at a distance for the duration of any visit and strangers told to leave him alone as a management strategy including no eye contact initially at least (my first advice is always to prevent an unwanted behaviour being possible). If he reacts, he needs more space/a quiet room and should not be forced to interact.

This doesn't sound like normal puppy biting though.
What breed of dog is it?
I would be extremely wary of having that dog around children again.
(And yes I do have a dog)

Border Collies can need a lot of work. They are incredibly intelligent but can be...err...temperamental at times. This sounds like an overstimulated and overwound collie warning everyone that he'd had enough.

He'll need a lot of exercise and will love the more training that is done with him. So as long as these are owners who understand collies, that they need work to be sensible well rounded dogs, everything will turn out fine. He wasn't being aggressive by the sounds of it, so much as he'd had enough of being fussed and wanted to be left alone. If he'd really meant it your DD would have a proper bite wound so he was warning her off.

The growling was the dog giving a warning that it was scared/overwhelmed/some other fear. Dog was placed in a safe space. Child entered safe space, dog reacted.

The owner should have removed the dog immediately when it was clear it was uncomfortable. Your child should not have entered its safe space.

If they haven't already, they need some 121 puppy training sessions.

If they have already done this, they need to redo it and engage this time. They are so good for a reactive pup, with a decent trainer.

Not simply teaching the dog cues like sit, stay and come, but learning why that particular dog acts that particular way to this particular situation. It's not just about them teaching the dog, they need to learn to understand their dog and set them up to succeed. They set their pup up to fail by forcing it into a situation it was uncomfortable with. Everything else was a chain reaction.

I hope your child is okay.

Anyone giving advice is just guessing. Without being there no one on this thread will know.

We used to use distraction techniques with our collie pup. Offer a toy etc instead.

I would purposefully avoid being in the company of this dog at any time in the future.

I am reading all the replies

Not all collies are temperamental. My brothers never nipped

Oh this really does sound par for the course, sadly.
Border Collies really aren’t “pets”.

The only “successful” owners of them that I know are Farmers who give them a job to do and are the on the go for most of the day.

I have known of “Pet” Border Collies who have bitten children and been PTS for it.

They are a highly strung, intelligent breed and quite “Nippy” as a trait.

My son as a baby had a pet Border Collie fly at him- Thankfully I was quick enough to pick son up- ( we were visiting a friend at her parent’s house)

They are very intelligent and thrive off good training and having a job to do.

Definitely not a breed I’d choose as a pet around children.

Lots of brain games and puzzles might help keep the dog entertained, but it’s going to get very bored as a “Pet “.

Hope your DC is ok .

Yeah, that's why I said they 'can be' temperamental. Dogs aren't one homogenous mass. But collies 'can be' highly strung and if they aren't exercised sufficiently they 'can be' very difficult indeed.

I have a 13 yo border collie who'd strongly disagrees with you.

Lots of walks, stimulation and time and they make absolutely great dogs. I'd never have another breed and due to my failing health I wouldn't be able to have another collie, therefore, no more dogs for me.

It's not necessarily something that can be trained out of the dog but it can be managed - that is the owner's job.

For instance, our dog can love you on sight or take an instant dislike to you. If it's dislike she will bark, and if you don't go away, she will start jumping up and- her way of trying to MAKE you go away (pushing you away). So she is immediately removed from that situation.

This is more likely to happen to visitors to the house. It's her home and she's protecting it and her family. We ask expected visitors to give us a 5 minutes heads up when they are nearby so she can be put in a different room with a special treat (frozen Kongs always on standby!). They are also asked to completely ignore her at first.

When everyone is in and settled, she is brought into the room on her lead to say hi. A lot of the time she is fine on her lead, but fearful if let off. Kong comes with us. If she is still reactive, she is taken back to the other room.

Honestly the difference in her behaviour between those that ignore her and those that ignore our request is amazing!

All dogs are different, some of it is down to the breed, their own history or just their own personality.

Thanks

Did they not?
That's pretty irresponsible.

They don't sound very responsible.

The dog needs training to accept visitors, and to be quiet- the owner needs to be the one in charge, it's not the dog's place to be biting guests invited into the home- the owner needs to discourage leaping up, as it's annoying and a bad habit.

Here is 'Flynn' the Farm collie where a family member sometimes works- Flynn is ''upset'' here as the ride on the Gator has stopped.

They need tons of activity and things to keep them interested- Flynn and the older Collie are very well trained- they are out with the vehicles and cattle a lot of the time- a Pet dog just doesn't get this level of activity, and they make their own 'entertainment'.

Being a big dog owner myself , not that the OP mentions the size breed but just saying .
My dog when was a pup would often nip and leave marks on my skin, never on a child though , BUT he has nipped a child in excitement / play. He's almost 3 and can still become over stimulated or excited .
Echoing what previous posters have said if a dog bites it's serious , usually requiring medical attention and definitely breaking the skin , regardless of the size or breed .
If there's no marks or broken skin the dog has not intentionally tried to hurt the child , in my opinion .

Border Collie?

With what sounds like an inexperienced owner?

They need to take intensive and lengthy sessions with an experienced dog trainer. A BC-experienced trainer.

The dog sounds afraid and reactive in the situation, unsurprisingly so.

Your poor Dd, very upsetting for her.

We can’t give the correct detailed training advice here. They need a trainer who will help the dog and owner bond so that the dog has absolute (and well founded) trust in the owner and the dog has the confidence to follow every command.

BC’s can take careful handling.

It’s not though - mine is the same age and would do the same. If he’s all excited and playful and we entered a room he would jump and bite our arms thinking we were up for playing. It can hurt sometimes too and it can look aggressive.

But he wasn't excited or playful

Did I write the post wrong?

He was scared I think. Worried. Overwhelmed maybe? The people who knew him said that.

Agree with this.

Growling is showing he's not comfortable, before a bite. You can Google the canine ladder of aggression - I'm certain he probably displayed the earlier signs of being unhappy in the situation ( yawning, licking, looking away, stiffening etc) before this, and nobody paid any attention.

The owners need to train themselves to understand dogs before anything else frankly. And get some professional help to train the dog.

I agree if he didn't break the skin, his bite inhibition is good for that age so he's not a lost cause.

If it didn't break the skin unless your DD had a very thick coat on it was likely too rough play.
DDog used to nip while playing before he was trained out of it and he did occasionally draw blood BUT he actually went for me properly once and it was very different
Having said that our dog was never allowed to play roughly with children like that, especially visitors, and we would not have allowed unsupervised access to a child if he was showing signs of discomfort