Puppy Survival Thread for New and Old Pups - here comes winter 2024

[Bupster]

I thought I might as well be the one to start the new thread! Nothing to report but a sleepy puppy over here.

My pup (now 10 weeks) is not crated. He has a pen but screams blue murder if he is put in there. (It is apparently ok for him to go in by himself to hide from the vacuum cleaner or play with his toys but heaven help us if we put him in with a Kong / lick mat and shut the door!). Night times he is still on our bed but when he is able to jump off I am not sure what we’ll do. Probably put a gate on the door and puppy proof the room. Day time he has free range of our sitting room, and we try to keep an eye to stop him heading for our or ds’s bedrooms as these are favourite pee spots. Currently he wakes, pee / poo outside, awake playing (and biting. - oh the biting!) for about 1/2 hour or so, then nap for an hour (on floor behind where I sit - his choice. He has a comfy bed). Then repeat. It’s complicated by the fact our sitting room is upstairs so he has to be carried down and out, which holds up the toilet training process. I suppose I’m reasonably relaxed as I know this time will pass. We’ve been through it before with previous dogs so although the constant vigilance and mopping up is a complete pain it won’t last for ever. Likewise I know he won’t impersonate a piranha for long, tedious and painful though it is currently.

That's it really, isn't it? @haggisaggis It sounds as if you're establishing a good routine already and it can't be underestimated how much experience counts with regard to puppies. When you've been through it before you know you'll have to deal with weeks of toilet training then teething, but you also know it will pass. You're already prepared for the mopping up, the chewing and general disruption so it doesn't create panic or reduce you to tears. You're able to just get on with it and still function in other ways.

This is not a lack of empathy for first time puppy owners; we've been there, but it absolutely does get easier with experience, as many things in life do.

I'm not minimising the effects of a puppy in the house - the overtired biting frenzy is horrible, disturbed nights can be a struggle, as can carrying pup up and down to toilet. I sympathise with you on that; our sitting room is downstairs, but the house is raised up off the street so we have steps at the front and back. We were carrying hefty Brie down to the back garden for weeks before she was able to manage the few steps. It isn't easy when you're trying to toilet train but have to cart the pup around to get outside. But still, experience definitely makes an enormous difference and I'm pretty relaxed about it all, like you are.

Yes i think there's probably a lot to be said for doing it the second (or third, fourth, fifth...) time around. I guess you know what to expect and what to do, and what mistakes to not make! I have done ok with Vinny so far but I think if I did it again, there's definitely a few things I would change and approach differently.

I really struggled with the thought of making those mistakes as a first time puppy owner and accidentally turning him into an unruly monster or causing some major issues without meaning to. I had major anxiety about the whole thing, and made it worse by researching and researching and watching every single YouTube video, TikTok, Instagram reel, reading every Facebook group. There's so much conflicting information and so many people putting content out there saying their way is best, and you must not do XYZ, then others saying the complete opposite. The internet is a great thing and has been invaluable in many ways for helping me raise a puppy, but it's also a minefield and awful for people like me who get stuck not knowing what to do for the best.

Also to add to these past few posts, if you are in puppy hell at the moment it really does pass quickly. Before you know it, you'll be further down the line and it will all be a distant memory! The small puppy stage for me was so weird, it's like the weeks dragged but also passed in no time at all.

I remember that first time I had Vinny laid on the sofa having a cuddle and not biting the hell out of me, and I couldn't believe it. I said to DH 'a week ago we would have never been able to do this.' It will come, I promise!!

Honestly @YorkshireFelix , no matter how many dogs you have there is always more to learn, still things you get wrong, things you can do better. There's loads of things I wish I'd done differently with Brie. Every dog is totally different and presents new challenges.

I think you're right that there is information overload and conflicting viewpoints now. I was lucky that I did my first solo pup in 95, I wasn't being bombarded by stuff on YouTube and social media so I just had to get on with it. It is far harder now because no matter what you think you're getting right, someone will tell you that you're doing it all wrong.

I think really the one thing experience counts most for is exactly what haggisaggis says above:
I suppose I’m reasonably relaxed as I know this time will pass.

That is key. That is what experience gives you. Forget the practicalities, they are still a struggle, you still have to deal with the weeing and the biting but it's just down to this in the end: knowing what to expect takes away the fear. so you can go with the flow.

@YorkshireFelix it was the anxiety I struggled with too. I remember the exact moment I decided to close about half the 4335 tabs I had open - the ones with all the puppy training information - and what a difference it made in the next few weeks just to let up on myself on that at least. I mean, yes, he's a horror to walk on a lead, and he never learned middle, or to spin, or any number of other things I could and probably should have taught him - but he's 95% on recall to a whistle and will swap almost anything for a clothes peg, and he might still drive me nuts but when he came home from daycare today he wiggled his whole soft little body in delight at me for a good 5-10 minutes. Then stole my boot.

What I'm trying to say @peachgreen is that you don't have to get it all right, just survive it till 4/5 months when the puppy teeth have mostly fallen out and the toilet training is mostly done. Decide what really matters to you. I have a working lines gundog and I don't know what I'm doing, so I thought: I need him to come back, and he's going to nick things for the joy of it, so I need to be able to get him to give them back at least sometimes. We'll get there with the rest.

I cursed myself. Guess who’s been wide awake since he got back from daycare and has just savaged his own water bowl to death.

That is a hilarious photo @Bupster - he does look slightly bonkers ❤

You’re right, you can’t do enforced naps in a bed. All you can do is say as I do “in your bed” which Roman generally ignores. I ignore him in return and he then does eventually lie down when he’s getting zero attention - not necessarily in his bed but wherever he chooses which could be the carpet or the wooden hallway or on the kitchen tiles or anywhere.

This works well now he is house trained. It’s is harder when they aren’t because you fear them wandering off somewhere to settle, waking up and immediately doing a wee! But little puppies like to stay very close so they will usually settle where they can still see you & you can see them.

Also @peachgreen you’re not doing it wrong at all. Those of us who sound like we know vaguely what we’re talking about are only like that because our puppies are older than yours so we’ve found a routine that works for them and us whether using a crate or not. We were just as confused and upset by the havoc in our lives when our puppies were tiny and weeing & pooing everywhere in Roman’s case & biting us all the time! I used to sing Baby Shark to Roman to try to make light of the situation but my hands & arms were covered in tiny bite marks. It’s such a hard time, in some ways it’s as hard as having a newborn again but the great thing about puppies is they do develop quickly.

I have an 11 week old puppy so am right there with you @peachgreen

thank you to all on thread the last few days who have really helped me when all I have the energy to do between rubbing my eyes in the back of the head, yawning, going out in the rain and wind for the millionth time etc etc is read mumsnet 😂

I have had a puppy before (passed away aged 13 last spring) and I agree with whoever said you know will pass and are more relaxed however I still get big rushes of panic and what have I done moments! I do feel overwhelmed sometimes even though my logical part knows it won't last.

its not dissimilar to when you have your first baby imo - a total and huge shock to your system and then one day you have managed to eat breakfast and have a shower and think wow I've cracked it 😂

Without a crate we had to do enforced naps in a bed and it just meant going back to the bed again and again saying ‘in your bed’ or ‘lie down please’. She soon got the message that bed was for sleeping in and that if she was ignored (which she was if her other needs were met) sleep was the best option. I moved to working in the kitchen when she was tiny so we were near the back door for toilet trips and realised that she wouldn’t settle if I was on the far side of the table from her bed as she couldn’t see me properly. I moved to the other and it made a world of difference, though now there’s a bed on both sides of the table because she’s spoilt.

I definitely failed to appreciate at the start how much she needed comfort from me – I was so caught up in being miserable that I forgot this tiny baby was in desperate need of me.

With no crate and no bed, enforced naps for us from the start, was me sitting at the dining table with laptop or books or my watercolours, and saying to Brie "sleepytime". If I just sat and ignored her she would always settle under the table, so that became her "bed" from 8 weeks. After her nighttime zoomies, same routine and one of us would sit with her until she settled.
It didn't take long for her to associate us sitting at the table with quiet time/nap time. Now she's too big to sleep under there but she has various sleeping places, she's still good at settling.

@YourMumsATerf
Hello and welcome to you and your pup🙂Is it nosy to ask boy or girl? What breed/size? Probably, but I'll ask anyway!

As you've already learned, some here are first timers, others have had multiple dogs, but hopefully you'll find support here whenever you need it. Puppyhood is always overwhelming even if it's not your first dog.

Gang, thank you all so much for your advice as always. Sorry for the slightly short messages yesterday – I was feeling a bit overwhelmed and useless and didn't want to end up in a big old moan! I am so grateful to you all, and am so feeling the benefit of your experience and wisdom. Not least just in the reassurance that it will get better, and that you all went through it too!

Betty is now allowed to go for walks so today she walked up to the school with us, and then down into the village to pick up a coffee. Then when we got home she bounced around the garden for a bit. What a difference it's made! As soon as we came in, she trotted into her pen happily, plonked herself down into her bed and started snoring. Honestly I am so delighted to have been able to get her out and about, and while we mostly just let her sniff and get used to the world, we did a tiny bit of training with her (mostly trying to get her attention when other dogs walked by) and it went pretty well, so that was reassuring.

Had a big chat with DP too and we have decided to focus specifically on three things between now and January: toilet training, demand barking and being left alone for short periods. The idea that we should have those more under control by 2025 has definitely made me feel calmer. We also agreed that, as per your wise advice, I should STOP GOOGLING, as I was feeling very overwhelmed by all the conflicting information. It helped that I saw a friend and her beautifully behaved, gorgeously friendly dog yesterday, and when I asked how she'd done it she listed basically all the things I would never do (dominance training, punishing for toileting in the house, "cry it out"), which kind of made me think that it's harder to actually fuck it up than it might seem and hopefully even if I get things wrong she'll still turn out okay!

Anyway, today I am printing out a schedule and a list of command words, which we're going to pin up in the office and stick to.Taking back control and all that!

Brilliant news @peachgreen , just wonderful progress. Now you can use a 10 minute walk as a distraction, so the naps come more naturally. The days wont drag nearly so much now.

Trust your instincts with training! You're on the right track, you won't fuck it up, your three immediate goals are very achievable.

I'm so pleased for you today - these little wins can make all the difference psychologically and a contented puppy is so much easier to bond with. You're all going to be fine xxx

Ahh this is brilliant! I am genuinely so happy to read this. So glad your first walk went well, what a little poppet. I bet she got lots of attention from passers-by.

Being able to get them out and about properly really is a game changer. Vinny's vaccine schedule meant we had to wait AGES to walk him and it drove me demented. I love taking him out now and especially as I know he will have a very big snooze for the afternoon afterwards and I can get a solid chunk of work done without worrying. I used to do a big walk every morning before starting work and I found it really hard not being able to do that for so long when he was small. So now our long lunchtime amble through the woods is my favourite time of day.

Yes definitely like having a baby! I told so many people at the start that I would much rather have a newborn as you can stick a nappy on them and they don't bite the hell out of you 😂

@peachgreen What lovely news! Walking will change your life and it will give you purpose – she’s got so much to learn and most of it is exciting and fun, rather than the drudge and stress of home-related troubles. Plus, you have to get up and go outside which is vital and helps a whole number of things.

Your plan sounds very sensible! Love the idea of having some targets – that will help you and her immensely. By the New Year she will have learned so much more just by existing and being with you. How cheering! So glad for you.

Has anyone got any advice on how to stop pulling on the lead?! Our 17-week-old Golden Retriever seems to be getting worse with every walk, not better. She's on the lead at the advice of our breeder and obedience class leader, because as a big breed dog a harness will likely encourage her to pull even more. But it's so tiring and discouraging trying to get her to walk to heel. We're following the general advice to stop every time she pulls but that means it's taking us ages just to get to the end of the road! So if anyone has a genius way of training to loose lead walk, please share!

Unfortunately stopping every time he pulled was the thing that really worked for us. I've done a LOT of training heel walking with our pup and it's starting to pay off now he's a bit older (he's 6 months tomorrow) but I didn't really think it was sinking in at the time. So keep on with it as I am sure it will help improve things a bit further down the line.

The stopping and starting was excruciating at first because I'd literally be taking a couple of steps and stopping, then again and again. He did start to understand to circle back to us every time we stopped and for us is made a difference quite quickly, but I know it doesn't work for everyone. It's been a few weeks since we started doing it and we still spend a lot of the time stopping, especially at the start of a walk when he's most excited but I'm hoping consistency will pay off.

Hopefully someone else has some more experience and can give you some advice which worked for them.

Also I think lead walking is the one thing most of us struggle/have struggled with so you're not alone!

Oh thank you. This is exactly what I needed to hear! We know deep-down that what we're doing is the right way to train her, but it's just dispiriting. It's really great to know it's starting to click for you. Gives me hope! We just have to grit our teeth and keep at it and hopefully it will get better.

@DowntonNabby honestly the best thing I have learnt throughout this whole puppy journey so far is that consistency is key. It's been a slog putting all the work in, and doing stuff over and over again thinking he's just not getting it and then things are starting to click now. It's been the same with toilet training, recall, training him to be neutral around other dogs/humans. I am fully expecting him to forget it all again once adolescence hits but I'm sticking my head in the sand about that for now!

If you go to the adolescence survival thread, I posted a link to a short video of my boy doing some good heel walking off lead earlier today. I do have another one of him doing it on lead too. Only a few weeks ago he was pulling like a trooper and every lead walk was miserable (and my shoulders were killing) and I'd never have imagined we'd make such good progress. I am really glad I stuck with it even though I looked such a twat stopping and starting every 2 seconds 🤣

I know others here have also put a lot of effort into lead walking and found it really difficult, but have ended up going down the route of a trainer for some more expert advice. It might be something to consider if you're not getting anywhere after a few weeks.

@DowntonNabby
Sorry you are struggling with your girl pulling on the lead. Our Pyrenean girl has been terrible for pulling. Really bad. I'm sorry to say that I still haven't been able to totally get on top of it.

Sometimes she will walk nicely with the lead loose, but other days (like today) she is a nightmare. There is no consistency and it's very hard because she's huge and strong and pulls me off my feet. She also bites the lead and jumps up. Stopping when she pulls hasn't worked for me; she then just turns around and starts jumping up at me.

I've called a trainer out to help. We've had one training session so far, just so he could assess what she's doing. As far as the jumping and lead biting goes, he said just try to ignore it and carry on walking which, of course, she did perfectly for him but not for me. For the pulling towards other dogs he used treats as a distraction but again, it didn't work for me because I need both hands on the lead due to her size and weight. I've got two more sessions booked so I'll let you know how it goes and if there is any progress.

We've tried every possible collar and lead combination including a chain half check and two different headcollars. I know that harnesses are not recommended for large strong dogs and most breeders seem to advise against them, but, after months of struggling with various combinations, I have settled on a harness and collar together. I'm using an Ezydog Express Harness and Ezydog Double-Up collar with a double ended training lead. I feel that the harness gives me more stability for road/pavement walking. When we go up on the moor she is just on a normal collar and a 5 foot webbing lead.

I hope you can get on top of the pulling a lot earlier with your girl than I've been able to with mine. Please don't be disheartened by what I've said here. Brie does have days when she walks beautifully so I'm hopeful that things will improve. As YorkshireFelix has said, lead walking is the thing that most of us struggle most with.

Please let us know how things go for you.