Will you give me permission to put my Ddog to sleep

[Inaverydarkplace]

I am completely heartbroken and in turmoil. We’ve had our Ddog since he was a puppy, socialised him, trained him, loved him. He was perfect until the teenager stage. When the aggression started. We’ve found lots of ways around it and given him space but this summer he has really escalated. He’s bitten several people, leaving puncture marks that break the skin. He can be so loving and cuddly but he just has this switch that flips into aggression. He’s 3 now and he adores us and we adore him but he bit my 6 year old last night. Dchild just wanted to stroke their dog. Today he’s still growling at our child so they can’t be near each other. I can’t re home him, he would be so upset, he’s completely obsessed with me and adores DH too. If you tell him off he challenges you so we normally move away and give him space. He’s aggressive with his crate (he sleeps in there in our bedroom), he’s aggressive when he gets in the car (he has to go in the car every day for his walk), I can’t give him high value food/treats because he’s aggressive then, he’s frightened of other children. He has to be sedated and muzzled at the vets and still puts up a fight and be pinned down like a wild beast. He growls when you wipe him with a towel, when you hose him off (I used to take him to the bathroom but he became too aggressive to do that), he barely tolerates us getting seeds off his fur. He doesn’t let you brush him, if he hurts himself he won’t let you near him to help him (eg if he has a thorn in his foot). He has been raised in a loving house, he’s not been abused or neglected. He has the most wonderful life. A different off lead walk every day, I’m at home with him all of the time. I socialised him from day 1, followed all of the advice. I don’t know what has gone so wrong. He can be so gorgeous and loving so I feel so much guilt and shame. Everything has just escalated and he’s bitten several times this summer. Getting near him with a muzzle is an ordeal. Yet so many of our friends haven’t seen him like this and would be completely shocked that such a loving dog will be PTS. But others have seen the other side of him and would understand. We know his mum and she’s the most loving dog, which is why we had him but his dad is a working dog so I think his intense personality is from him. He’s a springer spaniel. I am so so sad, we all are 😭 please tell me I’m doing the right thing.

Agreed , also the OP has stated that this dog has shown aggression on multiple occasions but still she allowed her child to go and stroke it , the child and dog should have been completely separated for the sake of both of them .

Yes, I 10000% give you permission to put your CHILD above a dog, much as you love him.

@Newpeep if this dog hadn't bitten multiple people (including a child) and wasn't showing severe aggression at the vets I would absolutely agree with you. If OP was posting this the minute she started having issue I would agree with you.

But as it is, this dog has a serious bite history, and is aggressive to the point of needing sedation just to see a vet for a basic check up. We're not talking a bit of grumbling and needing a muzzle - this is some pretty serious stuff.

Unfortunately this dog has been completely let down by everyone - his breeder, his owner and medical professionals who have been involved in his care - and he is now in a situation where he either goes to kennels (isolated) or into specialist foster with no guarantee of rehabilitation or a new home at the end of it.

At the end of the day, as much as we love them, dogs aren't people and they don't understand life spans or that what we're doing is in their best interests long-term, they live in the moment, and if every moment is filled with fear, stress, pain and arousal then sometimes the kindest thing to do is to put them to sleep and out of their misery.

I love the idea of every dog finding a new home with a wonderful forever family after medication and behavioural support, but the reality is that those kind of homes just aren't available in the numbers we need them to be - so the reality while this dog waits is that it will likely be isolated in a kennel for an indeterminate amount of time until its' behaviour either continues to deteriorate (and it's PTS anyway).

He sounds like a very stressed and unhappy dog. There's numerous red flags - the fact he feels the need to defend his crate from you and he bit your child because "dd only wanted to stroke her dog". The most important thing shouldn't be that dd wanted to stroke her dog, but was ddog happy and receptive to be stroked?

It doesn't sound like you have much idea about dog body language and giving them autonomy to decide when they do and don't want to be petted.

Pts, it's too far gone because it's been pushed over the threshold too many times. Don't get another one.

@Lougle I've made plenty of other posts in the thread - that particular comment wasn't really about being helpful - it was more responding to someone who kept trying to trip me up.

Its time, you've done what you can.
I also have a fear biter, if I had a young child he would be pts, unless I could get a family member to take him, I wouldn't rehome to a random person and he gets stressed with kennels so a rescue is not an option. No one would take him if he was in a rescue as he turns into a very scary dog when he is scared.

There are lots of non-bitey dogs already needing rehoming.

Someone said up thread, he has no idea when you pts, he just thinks its a normal vet visit.

This sounds very like how my cocker spaniel used to be. I still have him at age 9 and he is much better behaved in general, but I have still had 2 biting incidents in the last 5 years (me, he is managed in a way that he has not much opportunity to bite others since when he was an adolescent.)

Like you I have friends who would be absolutely bewildered if I had him PTS, as he is also the most affectionate dog I have ever known, just wants to be near me, cuddling into me. I live alone and it has been my decision to manage him, but I can ensure he is never around children and you can't do that.

If I was you I would have him put to sleep but I would also be absolutely devastated at having to do so.

The approach I took to improve his behaviour was one of establishing authority over him through continuous reward based training. We had got to a position where he felt he was in control and entitled to use his teeth to enforce his sense of control...control over his body(grooming, injury handling) , his spaces (crate, car, bed) and his things (at one point this was all the usual stuff such as treats and toys but could also be anything he might wake up near...plants, bags, remote controls, phones)

I had to work on changing his mindset on this respect...I couldn't do that safely when he was highly aroused, but I could do it by using lots of training and commands at more relaxed times. The success of the commands also meant I didn't have to handle him so much as he was controlled by my voice .This helped change his attitude to me and so he became less likely to resort to aggression in other circumstances as he felt a sense that I was in control, rather than him.

Previously he was very sensitive to my fear of him as well (who wouldn't be afraid of a dog that bites) and this was also an escalating factor in his aggression, and probably is in your case as well.

But it's not been perfect and I constantly have to anticipate and manage potential risk. I don't have kids, I think I would have to make a different decision otherwise as you can't pay around with the safety of others.

You’ve done all you can whatever the reason for the aggressivity, he is dangerous.
He has bitten your child.
He has to be sedated at the vet.

The best you can do fur your child, fur the dog, for yourself is to PTDS.

Dont take any chance that you’ll find somehow ‘THE’ key and take the risk of someone being severely injured. Incl your dd.

An aquantiance had a dog like this. A small ball of fluff, but very aggressive. She had a dog behaviourist and took dog to vet for advice. Dog bit them both. Carried on biting until they decided no more.
OP, some dogs are just like it, you've done your best but really can't allow this to continue. None of you are happy, including the dog. I think the time has come.

This is exactly what he’s like. He adores me and wants to be with me all the time, always cuddling and watches my every move. But when he switches he’s very frightening, his eyes change and I know to back away. The control thing definitely resonates. It describes him perfectly. If we were an adult only family I would happily take this on. It’s built so gradually over time we hadn’t even noticed how much we had to adapt to his behaviour. His nice side is so so sweet it was easy to overlook the hard parts and think we’d handled them.

So are you going ahead OP?

And the difficult thing is even with the best management in the world there is still the ongoing risk.

After 3 years since a last incident I had relaxed a bit with him and he was lying next to me on the sofa when I went to push him away as he was making me uncomfortable, and he bit me hard suddenly out of the blue, no warning whatsoever. 3.5 years of great behaviour, but a switch in an instant. (And then immediately acting like nothing is wrong, seconds later) I'd broken my own rule of verbally instructing him to move away at times like that rather than handling him.

And it's one thing for adults managing and training and facing consequences for lapses but it's impossible to expect children to follow all the rules and the consequences for them are not conscionable.

And then you have to think every time you want to go away, what do you do? I have a good friend who dog sits and a kennels I sometimes use, and they are both aware of the issues and know how to work with him, but I can't lie and say I'm not on edge the whole time I'm away in case something happens (nothing has, but I worry that potential is there).

I can muzzle him whenever I need to but I do continual positive reinforcement with him to maintain this.

I don't know if there's some genetic component for some spaniels perhaps (I believe my dogs litter mate was PTS for aggression issues) . And did you ever see that episode with a black cocker spaniel on the Victoria Stillwell show where she advised the family to PTS? Benji, I think it was, he was the spitting image of my dog, and similar issues.

At one point I contacted the police dog service as I wondered if they might take him on for sniffer dog training (he has exceptional drive and is incredible at scent work) I was told that they would have been interested if he was younger but at age 4 he was a bit too old for them to consider. I don't know if that could be an option with full transparency about his behaviours?

Sorry, meant to quote this

@sunsetsandboardwalks

i wasn't trying to 'trip you up'. I was trying to point out that you keeping on berating the OP for not doing something 'years ago' wasn't helping, nor factual. Yes, other things could have & should have been done 18 months -2 years ago but you were making out it should have been done years and years ago.

I'm finding your posts, especially in this section are getting more & more harsh & that kind of thing puts people off asking for help.

This is so sad. You have to put your children first of course before this ends very badly. Please so stop walking him off lead if he can't be controlled, this is recipe for disaster

Re black cocker spaniels being aggressive. I was told many years ago, by an RSPCA inspector, that he found these particular dogs to often be aggressive. In his opinion it was the result of inbreeding to get the perfect black coat without a single piece of white in it. I don't know if that can be proven, but I made up my mind to not get a solid black cocker.

This! Sometimes even the most loved, most trained dogs are still aggressive.
It is very unhelpful to the OP suggesting this is her fault and the dog is completely innocent. Who knows how things might have gone if a behaviourist was available. I do feel maybe the vet might be more forthcoming in suggesting sedation to given the dog a full MOT and if it was an option to you @Inaverydarkplace maybe seek a second opinion incase the wee man is in pain/ has a tumour.
Regarding being PTS. I am a massive dog fan, I love my dog more than anything but If your dog bit me , my child, or attacked my dog on a walk, I’d absolutely expect it to be PTS, and would be pretty uneasy thinking he was potentially about off a lead time to time.
Similarly to a PP I also work in ED and if your child presented having been bit by a dog or you were and resented describing your dog the way you have and I knew there was a child in your house, I would be putting in a safe guarding referral.
You don’t need my permission, or anyone else’s. Your dog is clearly very loved but Unless a vet can rule out ASAP that there’s not something easily treated or reversible going on with your pup, then it’s time. You have my sympathies, this must be so hard.

OP just bear in mind that your vet will have to sedate to euthanise your dog. So if yours is unable/unwilling then you will need to find another.

He sounds psychotic. No way would I have such a dangerous dog in the house with my DC. You have my permission to put him down! Not that you need it. Do what is right for everyone concerned. People are more important than pets.

Did you put the dog to sleep? He is a danger xx