Will you give me permission to put my Ddog to sleep

[Inaverydarkplace]

I am completely heartbroken and in turmoil. We’ve had our Ddog since he was a puppy, socialised him, trained him, loved him. He was perfect until the teenager stage. When the aggression started. We’ve found lots of ways around it and given him space but this summer he has really escalated. He’s bitten several people, leaving puncture marks that break the skin. He can be so loving and cuddly but he just has this switch that flips into aggression. He’s 3 now and he adores us and we adore him but he bit my 6 year old last night. Dchild just wanted to stroke their dog. Today he’s still growling at our child so they can’t be near each other. I can’t re home him, he would be so upset, he’s completely obsessed with me and adores DH too. If you tell him off he challenges you so we normally move away and give him space. He’s aggressive with his crate (he sleeps in there in our bedroom), he’s aggressive when he gets in the car (he has to go in the car every day for his walk), I can’t give him high value food/treats because he’s aggressive then, he’s frightened of other children. He has to be sedated and muzzled at the vets and still puts up a fight and be pinned down like a wild beast. He growls when you wipe him with a towel, when you hose him off (I used to take him to the bathroom but he became too aggressive to do that), he barely tolerates us getting seeds off his fur. He doesn’t let you brush him, if he hurts himself he won’t let you near him to help him (eg if he has a thorn in his foot). He has been raised in a loving house, he’s not been abused or neglected. He has the most wonderful life. A different off lead walk every day, I’m at home with him all of the time. I socialised him from day 1, followed all of the advice. I don’t know what has gone so wrong. He can be so gorgeous and loving so I feel so much guilt and shame. Everything has just escalated and he’s bitten several times this summer. Getting near him with a muzzle is an ordeal. Yet so many of our friends haven’t seen him like this and would be completely shocked that such a loving dog will be PTS. But others have seen the other side of him and would understand. We know his mum and she’s the most loving dog, which is why we had him but his dad is a working dog so I think his intense personality is from him. He’s a springer spaniel. I am so so sad, we all are 😭 please tell me I’m doing the right thing.

OP have you asked the vet for a pain trial? Very easy. Meds for a month at least and see if behaviour improves. Often used in dogs that have had investigations and nothing found but sometimes as a first call.

You don’t need a behaviourist for this. My last dog went on one when she was elderly and going up and down in mood and enthusiasm and it worked very well. Simple paracetamol in her case and our vet advised us on min and max doses as needed as a long term option. She was like a new dog. Cost pennies.

Can the dog not be completely/almost knocked out and fully physically examined, including X rays for any signs of infection or pain? This was my first thought, particularly with reference to the ears, but also the issue with wiping and general touching.

I have had dogs for 24 years and also board dogs in my home. The only time I have been bitten was by a dog that had epilepsy and had bitten his owners a lot in the past, but I was assured that he was on a new epilepsy drug and hadn't bitten in months. The dog had been golden all evening, played with me, cuddled, allowed me to put him on and off the settee. I took him for a bedtime walk and when we got home, it was like a switch had been flicked, his eyes changed, his face, his whole demeanour was different and intensely threatening. I left him in the kitchen to sleep, but when I went down in the morning, he attacked me and cornered me in the kitchen just for picking up his blanket. The vet thought that he may have had a small fit, even though he'd not had one for months and this can obviously change their personalities.

Is there any way that your dog can be having small fits or petit mals that you might have missed?
If you've exhausted all physical possibilities, I would say that there are worse things than putting a dog to sleep, particularly for his own peace, and also yours and that of your family. It sounds as if his life is one long stress, as is yours. To echo others, you would never forgive yourself if something terrible happened. I can't imagine the horror that this is putting you through, I'm so sorry.

I’m so sorry OP, but he’s a biter and has bitten a child, You have to do it.

Spaniels can be like this.

While it is probably one of the hardest decisions you will ever make, PTS is never a welfare issue - the dog doesn't know the outcome is that they won't wake up again. I'd advise that you talk to your vet in advance of the appointment just to make sure that they are onboard with your decision (you do not want to be having an argument with them in the consultation) and that you get a large dose of sedation in advance to give at home. See if they will come to the car to give the IM injection before you go into the vets to try and make everything as peaceful as possible. Alternatively, some areas have mobile euthanasia services so that he can be PTS at home https://cloud9vets.co.uk/areas-we-cover/

I volunteer for a rescue and sadly, we no longer accept dogs with a bite history as there are just no longer the homes available for them as well as the liability to the rescue, the kennel staff, the new owners and the volunteers. We often get contacted by vets asking if we will take a dog which is why I said talk to your vet in advance. I understand that vets struggle with euthanising a physically healthy/young dog - I do too - but the reality is that a dog with severe behavioural issues, that has learnt that they can back people off with their teeth, that has biting as their go to behaviour will spend a long time in kennels at best or will have to be PTS anyway after all the trauma of being surrendered to rescue.

It's not 'very easy' if you live in an open plan house with a 3yo whose safety must obviously be the absolute priority.

I'm so sorry, I've had similar with a loved family dog before. It's possible he is unwell which is causing the behaviour but he isn't safe to treat. I think you have run out of other options for him

The pain trial is easy. I have said above the dog needs to be separated from the children as a matter of priority. I have an open plan house. I invested in a room divider to keep my puppy separate from the cat and dangerous things whilst she was young. There are solutions.

Our vets won’t neuter him because he’s crazy at the vets. I asked for a behaviourist recommendation but they said they didn’t have one
That's ridiculous. There must have been some way of tranquilizing him. You say he's received other treatment but has to be sedated. Not impressed with that vet.

It sounds like it's gone too far now. Once a dog has bitten a child they can never be trusted near a child again. You say the aggression is increasing so it probably is time to say goodbye sadly.
Or you talk to another vet (not the one above that wouldn't neuter him) and ask for another opinion on whether it could be pain causing the issue.

So your proposing that the OP keeps a dog in her house thats bitten her 6 yr old for another month? Are you aware that this is a safe guarding issue? If the OP presented at her GP or A and E they would have to inform SS. How will the OP justify her decision to keep the dog “I knew the dog bites and has bitten my 6 year old but I decided to prioritise the dogs welfare over my child”. As parents we have a legal and moral duty to protect our children end of story.
I know plenty will come on here and say the OP can keep them apart but in the real world this doesn’t happen I see daily injuries and sadly even fatalities where parents think they are supervising their children or keeping them away from farm equipment ponds stairs fires and dogs but the reality is that everyone takes their eyes off their child for a few seconds and that is all it takes.
OP your dog isn’t happy and neither are you, I’m sure like the majority of us you put your child’s welfare above anything else, do the right thing for all of you and quietly have him PTS with you reassuring him.
On the sedation thing I only know about sedating horse it’s surprisingly difficult to administer the correct dose to have the desired effect, some horses have an extraordinary ability to resist sedation others seem to become more reactive it may be the same with dogs.

@sunsetsandboardwalks

you keep harping on about 'years ago' the dog is only 3!

@Inaverydarkplace I'd call the Springer or spaniel aid places & talk to them. No regular rescues, the specific spaniel ones.

your dog could be rehomed into a working situation where he is much happier. Through the right people.

They might not currently be able to rehome him, but at least you would have tried.

if you ever get another dog, you need to choose one much more carefully.

Commenting as someone who likes dogs, but haven't owned them. I would put the safety of a child ahead of owning a dog every single time. The second the dog bit him, I would say that's enough. You can't guarantee to keep them apart the whole time and your child shouldn't have to live in fear.

It is sad and you should allow yourself to be sad. You had no way of knowing this is how it would turn out amd have provided a loving home for as long as you can. But I genuinely can't understand anyone saying to try other things now. The risk is too high.

Well unless the euthanasia happens this second they will need to be separated. This needs to happen now. So it’s already a safeguarding issue and has been for some time.

it’s a SG issue it has gone this far tbh and there has been bites despite a lot of warning on the dogs part.

It’s an awful situation all round but the OP is asking for permission because they have tried everything. They haven’t.

Lets say the OP has an appointment to have the dog PTS this afternoon she could find somewhere for her DC to go school, friends family etc this is completely different from keeping the dog at her home for a month giving him a trial of pain killers.
Your right it was a safeguarding before the dog bit the OPs DC if she thought he was at risk of being bitten by this dog but but he now he had bitten him it’s escalated and the OP needs to do the right thing for her DC.

I've got three dogs, I love dogs and I'm here to say of course you can put him to sleep, he won't feel a thing, he'll just go to sleep and never wake up, the only people that will have to live with it is you and your family, but you don't really have a choice at this point, it would be irresponsible to move him on and the risks of keeping in him in your home are too great and have been for a while by the sounds of it.

There was a thread on here recently about a dog with similar aggressive behaviour, it had escalated quickly, and it turned out they were in real pain from an illness the owners didn't know they had, they had no choice at that point to them to sleep at that point anyway.

It may be that he is in pain through something, so personally I would want to make sure I had done everything to investigate that before I could PTS, but no one should judge you for doing the kindest thing for the dog in these circumstances.

You NEED to see a behaviourist or a trainer. From all your posts, it sounds like you've been a soft touch and not put any boundaries in place. I can't believe your dog bit your child and then you did absolutely nothing. No consequences. If this is a pattern in your household where the dog behaves badly, then you do nothing, no wonder he's out of control. The dog needs to learn he's at the bottom of the hierarchy, and every family member is above him.

I'm also very worried that your dog is going for off-leash walks every day if he's been known to bite. I hope you take him to a private field or something?!

I was in a similar situation a few years ago OP a.d had my dog PTS I wouldn't risk rehomeing Incase he ended up biteing another child. Hugs x

My in-laws are completely obsessed with Springers, they work them and used to foster rescues, so are really experienced with difficult dogs. A few years ago they had a gorgeous male who became like this at a similar age, he was a lovely puppy then became completely unpredictable. Eventually he was PTS after biting MIL on the face while she was asleep. The vet said it was almost certainly some sort of neurological issue. Sometimes no amount of training will help.

You have absolutely failed this dog by not engaging help sooner, but you can't pass him on like this. He needs you to finally step up and do what's right for everyone.

Hi OP. I really feel for you and understand your concerns regarding the dog around your children. Odd behaviour for a springer spaniel, I feel.

I don't have much advice and ultimately this is a choice only you can make. If it was me, I'd look at rehoming (with full transparency) rather than PTS as it could be that he'd have a happy life elsewhere. My dog is nearly 7 now and very much calmed down but he was a real prick when he was younger and a real shock to both of us as we'd never come across anything like him before. He essentially wasn't allowed near DD as the risk was too great but he was a nervous yet aggressive dog around us when we asked him to do something he didn't like and anyone who entered the house that he didn't "know" and with Covid, he didn't know many people.

We stuck with it because he wasn't as bad as your dog, it's part and parcel of his breed in some ways and we believe a dog is for life and worked with it. I also dread what will happen when we need to take him to the vets for something. So far he's been once for an issue and they touched his leg, he growled, vet said nope!

Find what motivates him, get a behaviourist or find someone who wants a dog like that.

The fact you've created this post shows how you want to do the right thing so don't feel guilty if you genuinely believe you've done everything you can.

@AutumnTimeForCosy24 yep, and the time to get help was when he started having difficulties in adolescence, not only now he's bitten multiple times and can't even be safely sedated by a vet.

As hard as it is to hear, this dog has been failed by its' owners, and probably the breeder too by allowing it to go to a home with a toddler.

I think you are very brave doing the right thing for your family and dog. You would never forgive yourself if you kept him or rehomed and someone got seriously hurt. I say this as an animal lover. You have done everything you could, it's not like you're giving up at the first hurdle

I'm not blaming you, OP, as people only know what they know, but there is a pattern on MN of working-line spaniels in pet homes who are too much dog for the (loving, caring) owners. They won't walk well on lead, or they resource guard or are reactive to everything under the sun or whine for constant attention. Some working line dogs are nightmares in unprepared pet homes. I'm not saying that this is the case with your dog, but the regularity with which it happens suggests that there is a general issue out there

This 100%. Many working dogs don't get the stimulation and training that they are bread for. They literally don't know what to do with themselves.

I had a dog from working lines (plus one parent came from bloodlines known to be unpredictable)
I re- homed mine well before the situation reached OP's problems.
In return, I was able to give a working dog a good, happy working home many years later.

I would never blame people getting working dogs, they are often recommended, advertised and sold as perfect family pets. And many will be happy living their lives as such...

But whatever the dogs underlying issues, I think it has gone on on for far to long.

Hence my earlier comment of

@sunsetsandboardwalks

the dog is 3, he wasn't alive Years & years ago

@AutumnTimeForCosy24 okay - clearly you enjoy picking for the sake of it, but my point still stands.

The time to get help was when this dog started showing issues 18m - two years ago. He has been spectacularly let down by everyone and now is paying the price.

Is that helpful, though?? @Inaverydarkplace has posted asking for advice about the situation she's in now. She needs a professional to assess the situation so that she knows what to do about the situation she's in now. Then has gone and now is here.

@Inaverydarkplace please don't take on the blame other people want you to shoulder. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. I hope you get the support to make an informed decision going forward.