Adolescent Dog Survival...Sharing Tips & Tails

[BrodiePup]

Moving on from the puppy survival thread, this is for anyone with a hormonal teenager 🤪

Brodie is just over 7 months now, and is a fun loving pup who is (mostly) a pleasure to be around. My main issue is still walking him which can either be almost a pleasure, or like having a Tasmanian Devil doing breast stroke and bunny hopping down the road 😡. There seems to be no reason for which dog gets attached to the end of the lead, but at least it shows he can do it if he's in the mood!

We've also had our first proper tummy upset this week 🤢 no doubt due to some rubbish he picked up and swallowed before I spotted it. Thankfully it seems to have passed now.

Thanks everyone, for your lovely kind comments.
@pyreneanaubrieI echo everyone who's said they're really interested to hear how it goes for you and Brie with trainer on lead walking. Hope your migraine has finally lifted.
@brushingboots I agree that's heartbreaking ad. Poor little dog, through no fault of her own.
It's clear from your posts what great care you take of pupsy, the walks, training, socialising, comfort, taking her to work, loving her and her traits, her opportunities for happy spanieling. It's clear what a good match she is for you and that pupsy is one of the lucky ones. Its obvious how bonded she feels to you too, following you around and sleeping on you. It must be especially hard to see tgese ads when you know you could give a spaniel a fantastic life. But there will always be so many more dogs needing great homes than you as one person can offer. I think you'd make a fantastic foster home for spaniel rescue organisation though, if thats something that interests you, I really do.

Lemondog will always have a loving home with me. I can empathise with people who find themselves out of their depths with their dogs though. I researched for decades before I got Lemondog and I'd known 2 dogs of his breed well, but even so I didn't think of every eventuality.

I didn't imagine this morning for example.
We had our first snow of the year, about 10cm deep (like Bupster's post recently, it was only supposed to be sleet!).
Lemondog loves snow and hasn't seen it for 9 months, since he was a 5mo pup. At his first sight of snow this morning he got irrepressible zoomies. Only problem was, he was on a short lead. So he was belting about in every direction like an over excited 35kg kite on a string. This was risking pulling me over in snow. At one point he pulled with such force that his lead came out of my hand. He zoomied about off lead (staying within about 7 metres of me). I called him back but he had gone gleefully deaf. I calmly held a piece of sausage out for him. I knew if he was too hyped to be interested in sausage he definately wouldn't come back so I had to wait for him to get some of his zoomies out of his system. He took the sausage after a minute and I clipped him back on lead. He still had some zoomies to burn though. So I then found I had to anchor myself to a lamppost (linking arm round it and holding on tight) while he bounced about like a wild stallion. I calmly ignored him, waiting until it passed. Unfortunately I have to take him to toilet on a short lead (before his off lead walks) so this situation was unavoidable for us this morning.

I also hadn't anticipated just how hard it would be to stop him from jumping up at strangers. I think I may have made mistake of over socialising him with strangers when he was a young puppy. I took him regularly to dog friendly shops, busy train stations, town centres, supermarket car parks, playgrounds, football matches in park, cafes etc all in the name of good socialisation. I did this daily throughout his critical socialisation period. Most people love a puppy so he was loved on by literally hundreds of strangers. I'd wanted him to become familiar with people of all shapes, sizes, types, ages, mannerisms, circumstances, disabilities, mobility aids etc and he very much is. But this makes him think all the world is his friend and that everyone is just waiting to gleefully adore him. He gets so excited when he sees a stranger and often wants to jump up if they ignore him in order to be greeted. I am working on this but in meantime I still can't trust him off lead around people lest he jumps up to 'greet them'. Living in a town, there are few safe places with no people. We have huge parks including countryside parks, but all are well utilised. The guaranteed quiet spaces often don't feel safe. I still ensure he gets daily off lead runs. But this does make it more complex to give him as much off lead exercise as I'd initially imagined. It also means I have a very sociable dog who doesn't get to socialise as much as he wants to so is even more OTT when he gets to. Naively, I hadn't anticipated this scenario. I assumed that a well socialised, trained, friendly dog, of a breed renowned for it's friendliness would be trustworthy with all. I didn't anticipate over zealous 'friendliness' being a thing I'd need to keep him on lead for. Am I out of my depth with Lemondog? Sometimes. However, I have a lot of time for him and I always find ways to make it work. I regularly train him. hire dog fields for him, ensure he gets his off lead runs somehow without him annoying others. My plan is for him to eventually be trained to canine good citizen gold and beyond I hope. (Still a long way to go). But I do still regularly have moments I never imagined my long awaited, much researched, dog would have. It was all so easy in books. Dog jumps up at or pulls on lead, do xyz consistently and voila, problem solved. But every dog is different. As @brushingboots says 'you can only train the dig that's infront of you' (hope I got that right).
I will find a way to solve these things with Lemondog and he will turn into a well trained dog! In the meantime, I still gleefully adore him even if the strangers he's so desperate to interact with don't. One day I hope he'll learn to 'keep four on the floor' and become more popular with strangers again.

Sorry that should have said "you can only train the dog that's in front of you" (not dig!)

Just noticed another mistake in my last post. I didn't clip him back on the lead during his illicit 'off lead' zoomies, he was never off lead, he'd pulled lead from my hand so was zooming around with his lead in his mouth, lolloping over the loop that was trailing on ground. It was in an area with roads relatively close by hence need for lead. Although thankfully he did stay close. But yeah, it was not a scenario I'd anticipated or had read about in the countless puppy books I'd read.

@LemonPalms - we are fortunate that we have lots of off lead spaces, but there was a time with our older one where she had to be put on a lead every time we saw people approaching, as she would jump at people. So our walks were all about places that weren't too busy with good sightlines. She's pretty good at ignoring people these days. But it was just a case of putting her on a lead every time we saw people approaching and not letting her rehearse the behaviour.

@LemonpaIms Oh gosh you are kind – I just do my best for her, which is all I can do. This morning that meant 90 minutes in the driving rain in a forest that I thought would be safe, being only muddy and wet but it turned out also to be extremely icy so we skated around! It was very stressful for the humans but she had a whale of a time, and a hot bath when we got home! So that meant it was worth it. I always think about walks as being for her not for me, and any exercise I get out of it is a bonus. I definitely don’t always feel super up for it and quite a few of this week’s walks have been a chore, but you suck it up, don’t you, because that’s what you pledged to that tiny puppy you had in your arms.

I'd really love to foster but I don't know if I have time – nor, to be honest, experience with some of the issues that rescue spaniels sometimes have, guarding and separation anxiety. And I might end up with loads of dogs haha. We used to do foxhound puppy walking (raising) for the hunt when I was a child and I'd love to do that again but it is a lot to take on.

I’m sorry you had a rough time in the weather! On Tuesday morning I thought both of us were going to have a terrible accident, walking on lead from home to a safe bit of snowy field, in the slush/ice. It was pretty hairy and I was glad she was only 12.5kg as that’s considerably less pulling weight than Lemondog! I really sympathise and think most of us had a day like that this week. But it sounds like you did absolutely everything right in waiting for him to be calm enough to have some sausage and letting him run it off. A trainer once said to me that if they won’t accept a treat that’s a sign that they’re over threshold and I think about that all the time.

You are doing so well with him – you are much calmer sounding talking about him here than you were, and it’s so nice to hear! I think a lot of dogs are super social because their owners have well-meaningly over-socialised them but as @tizwozliz says, all is not lost and I think a lot of comes with age.

@YorkshireFelix We got back from the hell walk this morning to discover that all the snow had vanished, so we’ve swapped with you! It’s now just wet and muddy again but I’ll take that if it means I don’t need to wear six layers anymore.

@PyreneanAubrie Hope you’re feeling better! Let us know how your training session goes today x

@LemonpaIms
I can empathise with you on two counts;

The pulling on slippery pavements is terrifying when you have a large a strong dog. Your walk this morning sounds...challenging, shall we say 😨and I'm very glad you managed to avoid being pulled over!

We also have very much the same issue with Brie jumping up to greet people, and that is another part of me wanting some training sessions. If it's a person she recognises, it's even worse so it's something we really need to work at.

As brushingboots says, you're doing very well with Lemondog. I love how we all connect here with updates and can see each others progress.

Well folks, today's training session has been rearranged for 3pm Monday because of adverse weather.

We had a lot more snow this morning, immediately followed by torrential rain, so there is flooding all around us and a lot of standing water on the local roads. Some of the cottages down the hill were being pumped out by the Fire Brigade earlier on today. Our back garden is waterlogged but fortunately we have steps up to the house so we're okay.

Hope you're all surviving the deluge 🙂

"quite a few of this week’s walks have been a chore, but you suck it up, don’t you, because that’s what you pledged to that tiny puppy you had in your arms."

Oh, @brushingboots , this brought tears to my eyes. That's exactly how I feel. I remember bringing him home - we had such an awful journey, and I felt such an enormous responsibility to this tiny, loving, forgiving little pup. I've been off sick this week and his walks have been shorter but we haven't missed an outing, not one.

Our dog park looks like something out of Ypres just after the armistice right now, I'm half-expecting to come home with trench foot. Which is going to make things so much more fun as all of them up there are jumpy uppy at the moment. I think it's partly their age - lots of daft puppies - so we're all scattering treats on the ground to try to calm them down. I'm thinking of just getting some pawprints appliqued onto all my coats in mud colours to save time 🙄(let's pretend it's mud...)

Snow turned to sleet turned to rain in the early hours and then ended up being 13 degrees. We both wore far too many clothes on our woodland walk but it wasn't anywhere near as wet or muddy as I anticipated.

Pups will definitely be hoping for more of the white stuff this winter

What an absolutely glorious picture @tizwozliz !

That's reassuring to hear @tizwozliz thanks. I agree with Bupster, what an absolutely glorious photo. It's just fabulous. Your dog certainly looks like she enjoyed the snow.

Thanks @brushingboots That made me feel better. I suppose i do feel calmer about Lemondog these days. I previously may have misinterpreted his short lead crazy zoomies as bad behavioir. Now I recognise it's excess energy and excitement that he doesn't know how to contain or control which makes it easier for me to remain calm and not feed into it. I do still make mistakes every day but I'm learning.

Sounds like pupsy had a fabulous walk. 90 min in driving rain and ice sounds very dedicated of you. I hope you were able to enjoy a contented and lovely clean snuggly pup this evening in the warmth.

@pyreneanaubrie thanks for that which also made me feel better. I hope your training session helps but in the meantime I feel less alone knowing that others experience similar things. Glad to hear your home has avoided flooding. Sounds like being up hill has its benefits. Seems sensible for training to have moved to tomorrow, hopefully better weather will help you all get most out of it. Good luck, let us know how it goes.

I sometimes wonder why I didn't get a small dog! How lovely it would be to not be pulled about, to be able to lift him and pop him in the bath, for him to still be able to sleep snuggled into me in bed at night. I've never slept better in my life than those first few exhausting puppy months with small dog snuggled in close in my bed. For now, he sleeps outside my bedroom door. When his behaviour improves (and he stops chewing objects) I'm going to get him a gorgeous big super cozy permanent bed and let him back into my room to sleep on the floor by my bed on it. I hope that happens this winter.

That said, I wouldn't swap Lemondog for a smaller dog. I wouldn't even shrink the rascal if I could ♡. What I do want is for him to be better trained and better behaved though. Which is completely achieveable with work and time ♡

Your words resonate with me this morning @LemonpaIms
Almost every day lately I wonder if I should have got a smaller dog, a more manageable breed. This girl is pushing me so hard.
When she was small it was all easy; she wasn't crated so we had her fully toilet trained by 4 months, no issues with resource guarding or chewing etc. At home she's good, very calm and quiet, doesn't even bark, but out in the world she fights me. Experience seems to count for nothing; despite 47 years of this breed, including having 3 very large males, she is my biggest challenge by far.

You nailed it when you said this about Lemondog:

"What I do want is for him to be better trained and better behaved though. Which is completely achievable with work and time".

I've never had to put in much work with my other dogs, but with this one I am going to have to work at it.

Please keep sharing your experiences with us. Everything that any of us says here will probably be helpful to another puppy/adolescent owner who is quietly lurking here and having their own struggles. It is all valuable info.

I think it's important to recognise that there are easy and more challenging dogs.

I remember reading one of our puppy books about teaching drop, and talking if you do x 95% of dogs will do y. No further instruction about if you had one of the 5%.

And I'm not sure pleased is quite the right word, but when my older pup was held up as an example of a difficult dog in one of our gun dog classes it was quite nice that it was recognised!

And to her credit, older pup never showed me up. She always demonstrated to the trainer that their methods didn't work. At one point, I could have happily throttled anyone that said the way to get her to give a ball up is with another identical ball.

It wasn't until we got the second pup that I realised quite how challenging the first one was. If we'd had the second one first, we'd have sat and congratulated ourselves on what excellent puppy trainers we were, when I'd say at least 80% of it was pups personality.

How long is Puppy Blues supposed to last? I'm really struggling 😩

I'm having moments where I feel like I got the wrong dog. Seriously. I mean she's good, she's beautiful but very independent minded and aloof; she's not the least bit cuddly, and I miss my previous boy more every day. He was so bonded to me, so loving and affectionate. She just doesn't seem to need me at all, we don't seem to connect.

Is this puppy blues or did I just choose the wrong dog?

Thanks @tizwozliz This is more helpful than you could know x

I agree that we should all keep posting and that's why I always try and give support to people with puppy blues in particular as when I was going through it I was too proud to say anything, but I found reading and lurking so comforting.

I'm so sorry @PyreneanAubrie that you're feeling down about Brie. I think we have to accept that they're all different people, just as we are. My parents' current spaniel would sooner get up and lie on the cold floor than be nestled on the sofa with you, while pupsy has to be in your skin, all the time, down your jumper. They've been raised the same way but they're just different personalities and that's OK.

@pyreneanaubrie you're not alone in how you feel. There have been many moments when I could have written your last post (apart from the part about missing your boy as Lemondog's my first, although I do miss my male cat). Lemondog is also independently minded and not cuddly. When he was Brie's age he didn't seem to need me much. He barely noticed if I left room when we were in a strange place to him like someone else's house or training classes. All the other pups in training looked adoringly at their person. Not Lemondog. He just looked adoringly at the other dogs and strangers and food. Now he most certainly would notice if I left and would want to follow me. He now looks semi adoringly at me (in his strong silent way). His bond to me has definately grown from 7 mo to 14 mo and I'm sure Brie's will to you too. Trainers have told me they've noticed this change in our bond too. You've mentioned that your previous dogs were all fairly mature even as puppies. I wonder whether Brie may be more like a typical puppy who will change a lot from pup to adult and get better as she matures.
I often read other people's posts describing their pups as loving and cuddly and feel I'm missing something. But there are advantages to an independently minded dog.
It probably makes Brie naturally good at protecting her family. There's no seperation anxiety. They might be more skilled at types of training that requires making their own decisions (e.g. scent detection or when to refuse to cross a road when instructed to as a guide dog and many more things requiring independent thought). It gives them a lovely type of working intelligence. They're not needy or clingy. It's easier to do your own thing in their presence like work from home or read. They can have excellent focus and persistence in achieving their own goals which can be harnessed in training. For example if Lemondog wants food he's prepared to work and work at it. This makes him excellent at commands requiring patience like stay at a distance. These are the dogs who if lost 3000 miles from home will persist through hell and high water until they find their own way home. There's also the argument that dogs who're more sparing with their affections can be very rewarding in their own way as their bond with you develops through time. For example Lemondog didn't want to get into car the a few weeks ago at the end of (an admitedly very short lunch hour) walk. He wanted to stay out and run. For the first (and only) time he refused to get back in the car. Rather than make a big deal of it and create a learned behaviour, I simply left his door open and got into my drivers side. Seeing this he immediately darted in. Ever since then he's been super quick to jump into the car the moment I open the door for him. I didn't mean to scare him but it does remind me he cares very much about coming home with me and he does of course feel he needs me (as all dogs need their families).
You said the other day that your chap said your Dad would have loved Brie and you agreed that he really would have. I"m wondering what you both recognised that he would have loved about her. No need to answer if you don't want to of course x

@tizwozliz your post on 80% personality is extremely helpful to me too as I often wonder what I'm doing wrong.

@brushingboots your posts are so supportive and helpful and have helped me a lot. I can see from others' responses you've helped many others too. I hope you know how appreciated you are here. I too didn't ask for help when I was struggling in the early months with Lemondog. I found a great deal of support from lurking on the puppy survival threads.

You are right @tizwozliz and @brushingboots , that our dogs are, of course, very much individuals. But there are also enormous differences between the sexes and I suspect that is part of my issue. I think I just prefer male dogs and find them easier to be around😞

These are all such lovely supportive posts. It's what I really appreciate about this thread. It's the one place I've felt safe to come to and be honest when I'm really, really struggling - and we all struggle at times.

@PyreneanAubrie it must be very hard when you've had dogs with whom the bond was simple and complete. That doesn't mean you don't love Brie or vice versa. Just that your relationship is more complex and nuanced. I think she's about the same age as Bill, isn't she? He's noticeably beginning to be more independent in some ways - less likely to respond to his name, more likely to behave in ways that I struggle with - he's horrible to walk on lead right now. That's going to be infinitely harder with a bigger breed, as the sheer physicality of her independence has consequences.

Bill has never really been a particularly cuddly dog. He is affectionate, but to everyone; and he follows me around the house, and plays up if he hasn't got my constant attention, but he doesn't particularly want to get on my lap or lean on me or any of those things that I know his litter mates do. Sometimes I wish he were more cuddly, and sometimes I'm impatient for him to be more independent. When I struggle, I think, well, you have to love the dog in front of you, and sometimes that's an active verb - it's a choice I have to make and a thing I have to do, not just a feeling I can wait for.

And @tizwozliz I agree, thinking about puppies and their learning in terms of 80% personality is so helpful. Things like breed and parentage take you so far - but Bill and his litter mates are entirely different in their personalities and that was visible when they were still all together. I'm reading a book called 'The Year of the Puppy' right now, and it's so good - the author is also in touch with her puppy's siblings' owners and again, they're all completely different.

@LemonpaIms

Thank you so much for this lovely post 😘and for giving it so much thought.

I'm sure you're right that the bond between me and Brie will grow, just as the bond between you and your boy has. That is good to hear. I did feel quite bonded to her initially, when she was little and needy but she has suddenly, over the last few weeks become a more independent, free-spirited individual. This could, in part, be the fact that I've had things to deal with since my Mum died and thus been less focused on my Baby Bear. Losing Mum has also had an impact on me health wise with a head-pain flare-up so my chap has been doing more of the walks. That could also be impacting my relationship with Brie so hopefully it will get back on track.

Another element for me is her sheer size; even after 7 previous PMD, that has been unexpected. We envisaged her being of similar size to our other three females but she is, at 8 months, larger than one of our males was 😱 She had outgrown the size XL harness by 6 months old. She is just enormous. Our reason for getting a girl was that it would be easier for me to walk; I wanted another male but my chap insisted female or nothing. But she has male size coupled with female bolshie attitude and now, throwing adolescence into the mix....that is not a great combination for tiny, 60 year old me with fibro, scoliosis and asthma. Yup, I should have got a Westie (running joke because MIL used to have two).

You have a very good understanding of an independent-minded dog. I agree that some people never quite see that; with a snuggle-bunny pup it's very different and you do make some valid and interesting points about this 🤔I need to ponder this for a goodly while.

So now, I don't know if I'm right or wrong about gender bias. You have an independent minded male which would indicate that it is an individual trait. But then, in mine as a matriarchal breed would that be reversed? Certainly, all four of our females have been very independent, outdoorsy and impervious to bad weather, demanding of a lot of exercise, whereas all four of our males have been happy to loaf around indoors and snuggle on the sofa (and really hated rain).

That, brings me nicely to your question about my Dad and it's easy to answer: my Dad would have adored Brie because he liked a dog with attitude. By that I don't mean a bad attitude, but he loved the girl dogs because they would bounce up and jump up at you, or walk right up to your face and do a nose-boop as if they are testing your courage to go eye-to-eye. My Dad loved that naughtiness, that cheeky sense of fun, he loved to play rough with them (yes, I know you shouldn't but he was just amazing with all dogs; even bad-tempered dogs loved him). Brie has bucketloads of that attitude! I could say too much for me at present. But it may be that I'm just feeling tired, emotional and fragile since my Mum's death, and that hopefully you are right and I will come to appreciate Brie's strong character a lot more as she gets older.

@Bupster
The book looks interesting, I'll check it out. I love the photo of sleeping Bill, he looks so squishy and I can just smell that baby dog aroma wafting up ❤I always want to bottle the smell of warm, dozing puppy.

Are you feeling any better today? I know you've had a horrible week but still had to battle the elements to get out with Bill. I hope you're on the mend now...

Yes, Brie is a bit older than Bill but not much; she'll be 8 months on Wednesday. I really should be appreciating her. I think because I'm on a bit of a downer since losing my Mum, I'm making unfair comparisons with our past dogs. In my head I know they all develop at different rates but in my heart I'm thinking about Algy, particularly because November was his birth month and he was my velcro dog. I'm mentally slapping myself about the head for making comparisons. I do love Brie I just feel overwhelmed at the moment.

Brie is pretty much as you describe Bill; she is affectionate on her own terms but not really a snuggler. She likes me to be close by but isn't needy. Maybe it's just adolescence then, the ignoring her name (since you mention that too in Bill), the "f**k you" attitude... She is full-on! My partner was laughing yesterday saying she's not a girly girl. I know it's bad to anthropomorphise them, but Brie is not, in showring terms, a "feminine bitch". In fact, the gigantic Algy was far, far gentler than Brie is. He would lie with his head in my lap, she might do that but then she'd either headbutt me or kick me in the face 😆She's a brute!

All of you are right - dogs are all different, even siblings or pups brought up in the same household. I really shouldn't be comparing her to my past dogs. She is who she is. I need to stop whining and appreciate her being a free spirit.

@PyreneanAubrie it sounds like your one big gigantic loss is also sparking echoes of lots of other loss as well. That's a lot to handle and it's hardly surprising you're feeling a sense of loss for your previous dogs, and comparing Brie. Loss kicks us into a hole sometimes and we can't really talk ourselves out of it - especially when you have so many other things to carry.

I found this on my photo reel the other day. I don't know if it's useful but it helped me at the time.

That is helpful @Bupster
I'll copy it into my journal.
Thank you x