Keep, re home or PTS a dog that bit?

[Puppalicious]

Our dog bit my dh yesterday, punctured the skin and its now infected. It was entirely my DH’s fault - she was lying under a bush, he lifted her to pull her out (she’s increasingly hard to get out from her “den”), she almost went upside down so he had her by the back legs. She has hip dysplasia, it must have been excruciating for her. I don’t know what he was thinking. However, I worry now she’s crossed a rubicon.

The problem is we have 3 small children, the smallest of whom’s face is low enough to get a bite there. The dog is 3 years old but in pain - we thought it might be one bad hip and get a referral to a vet hospital. However, she’s actually got something wrong in all 4 legs (hip dysplasia in back ones, a touch of arthritis and carpal hyperextension in the front). They recommended weight loss, librela and conservative management in the first instance, all of which we’ve done, and then consider surgery. But in all 4 legs? Is it fair to any dog to do that? She’s not improving. She’s terribly slow on walks.

Last night she looked at me and growled for no reason. My littlest just told me that she petted her this morning and she almost bit her (made no contact - I always thought she had good bite inhibition but maybe not following yesterday). I worry that my DH’s idiocy yesterday has made her even more reactive. I worry a dog in pain is maybe not safe with children in any event. She thinks she’s one of them and will often try to lie beside them - especially the little one - but that means its very easy for one of them to knock her.

She has a lovely sweet gentle nature (she was at the groomers last week and they commented on how friendly and good-natured she is) but I just can’t take any chances with my children. They’ve all been warned sternly this morning to take a lot of care. But is it safe? Should we look at rehoming her to somewhere with no children - but who would want a disabled dog who has bit, beautiful and sweet natured though she is? She would also miss us so much. Should we look into surgery, see if that would help - but all 4 legs?! Is that fair on any dog? I can’t really contemplate the last option in my title - but would that be the fairest thing for her, if she’s in pain?

I know the doghouse can be very rough so I’m expecting some abuse here, but at the same time I’m wondering what good dog-lovers would do.

I know it's really hard, but from your update I do really think PTS is your only option.

The poor girl is in a lot of pain and must be so scared. She can be PTS surrounded by love and affection and you'll know you did the right thing

If we don’t walk her at all, she’ll get fat and worse physically. The vets recommended short walks. And we don’t know if she has pain in all her legs - particularly the front ones.

@Puppalicious

I’m not going to pile on with any advice , a lot has been said , possibly too much in some cases.

But your husband has an infected dog bite. Has he had treatment. He needs antibiotics and a tetanus if he isn’t up to date ..

Dog bites can go deep and cause huge infection risks

It’s already infected and looks bad, swollen and red. I told him to go to doctor today but he’s putting it off until tonight because of work.

Contact NHS 111 for advice he might need an Urgent Care appointment ( like A&E but minor rather than major ) if he needs intravenous antibiotics. His GP would likely send him but best to get advice on the up to date treatment

You don't need an appointment to go to urgent care and he needs to get there ASAP, sod work

This level of pain in a 3yo dog, I would be thinking PTS.

Word of warning - your vet will very likely give you all sorts of expensive "treatment" options, especially if you're insured. Just because these options exist, does not mean they're in the best interests of the dog. Surgery involves even more pain, without any guarantee of improvement. Anaesthetised for surgery or PTS - the dog won't know the difference between these two things (except one way they wake up scared and in pain, and the other they just don't wake up).

Poor dog. Collies are high energy dogs, if she’s in pain and not able to exercise it’s no wonder she’s unhappy. I would talk to the vet, if her lain levels can’t be improved then I would discus PTS.

A specialist breeder (not a puppy farmer) would be unlikely to PTS in my experience. They're usually people who love the breed and their dogs, and are more likely to try to keep her going if at all possible.

Poor pup is clearly in a lot of pain. The husband incident was understandable and I wouldn't make a decision based on that episode but the others are more worrying. I would be off to the vet if I were you to check just how badly she is hurting. Decisions to be made then.

Rough collies, well all collies, are really high energy dogs. They're not small either, so being manhandled, even though accidental was foolhardy. But lesson learned, you husband won't do that again in a hurry.
If she's 'going to ground' she doesn't sound like she's comfortable, and collies can be snappy too.
I think pts is probably the kindest action, she's clearly in pain, and as another poster has said surgery isn't always the best way forward.

It sounds like she's in a lot of pain. It's probably time for a full discussion with the vet about what realistic options exist for her. It might be that PTS is kindest and safest, but I'd always want a professional opinion on prognosis to inform that decision making. Sometimes the last act of love we can do for a pet is a humane ending to save them from unnecessary suffering.

For the husband, 111 and probably antibiotics. He might be hard to rehome though.

Edited to add: it's not legal to PTS him though, sorry.

You do in my area, you can’t go there without calling 111 first. Can go to minor injuries, but not urgent care.

PTS. Dog has bitten and is living with constant pain poor thing.

Step one is to contact the vets again as a matter of urgency. She is on a conservative management plan which is not enough for her to have a normal life - she avoids walks due to pain and has taken to hiding so she can try to get her point across when pushed.
She needs stronger pain relief immediately- there are of course long term downsides to taking these, but her quality of life has to take priority
You then need a full and frank discussion with her vets as to which, if any, operations are viable. In some cases it is worthwhile but not all - a friend of mine had her Labrador’s hips both replaced at 4yrs and he lived to a happy 14

'I worry a dog in pain is maybe not safe with children in any event.'

Then you should have thought about this before having dogs and children, together.

I'm assuming at least one of your children is older than the 3 year old dog, so it wasn't a surprise you had kids, when you got the dog.

You're entirely correct - dogs in pain can be unsafe with kids due to the risk of a bite. Any dog could be in pain at any point - and yet plenty of parents manage to mitigate the risk.

You weren't posting about putting the dog to sleep due to her pain, you've only posted following the bite, so don't tell yourself it's also because of her pain. She needs to be on pain relievers - what are you vets doing?

Suck it up and manage it - you don't just kill dogs because they're response to being pulled by the back legs is to nip (and unless your DH was at the hospital having stitches, then it was a nip).

Bad ownership, coupled with a disposable attitude to other living creatures (which should be members of the family), again. It's utterly soul destroying that people like you exist, and not only, but are allowed animals.

@Toenailz

so are you saying that nobody should get a dog unless they’re prepared for their children to get bitten should said dog develop a chronic pain condition??

really??

people come before dogs always.

Take advice on the surgery. If there's a good chance it will give her a good quality of life, then get it done. After, rehome if her needs mean she'll struggle around children.

It isn't cruel to re home an animal to a suitable and loving home. Do you really think PTS is better than missing you? She's only 3. If you or an organisation who rehomes her takes care with who she is rehomed to, she will forget you and form a bond with them. I say this as someone who had to rehome a pet as it was in his best interests, and know, because I visited him subsequently, that it worked out really well.

Your husband made a mistake, it wasn't deliberate. But the biting is unsurprising if she experienced sudden, terrible pain.

What a silly, daft summary.

What I'm saying is - if people want dogs and children, the fact a dog can react when in pain, with it's teeth, should be a consideration before taking on a dog with kids in the house, if you are concerned that a dog in pain can be a risk to children. You can NEVER guarantee any dog - least of all any dog in pain.

The dog was in its safe space being dragged out for a walk it didn't want to go on, whilst in a lot of pain with her legs. Of course it bit. How else is it supposed to be asked to be left the fuck alone? Sadly she can't quite use her words, can she.

Even children know better...

As usual though, dog will suffer the consequences of stupid behaviour of people.

This isn't an aggressive, problem dog, which I would agree PTS if you couldn't find a place and suitable help for it. This is a dog whom is very, very severely sore, in her den wanting to be left alone, not wanting to be dragged on a walk -and being dragged out of that den.

1st rule of dog ownership should be (and usually is understand by most people) - dogs need a space to get away. Don't bother dog in it's safe space, as that kinda defeats the point of said safe space, doesn't it? Come on now, we don't need to be rocket scientists. Just a shred of common sense would do.

You’re bad people. That’s all I have to say. Poor dog.

OP - Dog has been doing exactly what she is meant to. She is taking herself off to her den when she is bothered by activity in the household, when she is in pain or when she wants to be left alone. This is good behaviour from a dog, removing herself from situations that she doesn't enjoy.

From the sounds of it she has been in pain for quite a while now - most of us humans struggle with long term pain, a dog dealing with that could be far more grouchy than she is.

If the dog is in her den, she has no escape from your OH, she can't remove herself from the situation, she is effectively cornered, and she can't ask him to stop causing her pain. She literally has to use her teeth - she has no other possible way, and no other means of escape. I'd be unsurprised if she doesn't want to take herself off to her den any more, for fear of a similar situation happening. If she is growling in the house - she may well feeling insecure, and not taking herself off to her den as often as she usually/normally would - because it's got a recent, bad association and will no longer feel completely safe.

She's doing everything she was meant to - now its your turn. Whilst I am sure your OH meant no harm, it sounds as if he's actually made her feel very unsafe in the sense she can't just go off to her own den anymore, for fear of being dragged out and caused pain and an ensuing unpleasant situation. She'll likely be feeling as off as you all are.

Pull your socks up as this one was caused by yourselves, not the dog. Give your dog extra hidey spaces and actually make sure no one bothers her this time and, get a move on with her vet treatment, because the current treatment is obviously not working. This was caused by human error, and you have a responsibility to her to now get it right, not just PTS, - she's been doing her part.

Rehome but ensure that whoever is responsible for the process and the new owner is fully aware. She isn’t suited to a family but could still have a good life with a patient person willing to administer to her needs.
Keep a close eye on your husband. Yes, what he did was wrong but my husband acquired sepsis when our dog bit him. On a hot night, she got down from her armchair in our room and lay on the floor on his side of the bed. He had no idea she was there and trod on her when he got up for the loo. Asleep, she woke and, naturally, bit his foot.

She’s in her den right now. I just called her out for a pet, she came out and when I went back inside, she hobbled back in. She seems to be limping on the left back leg which is the one which looks on x ray to be the worst. I think we’ll look to get that operated on asap and then reassess. The den use has also escalated during the summer - it’s quite stuffy in our house and as you can imagine she doesn’t like heat so it may not all be pain related.

Exactly, thousands of families have pet dogs. A collie isn't exactly the sort of breed you'd think was unsafe around children.

And nobody thinks their pup is going to develop joint issues so young.

Arthritis can often be worse in the humidity. I think you are kidding yourself to believe it’s not a pain issue. If she is now limping, potentially due to her ‘scrap’ with your DH, he may have injured her further.

Stop shirking your responsibility for her wellbeing and TAKE HER TO THE VETS TOMORROW