Which small dog for a big family?

[HBGKC]

Hello MN, I'm after your expertise on which small-medium dog breed would be the best shout for our large family.

My eldest daughters (22&20, will be at home for a few years yet) really want to get a dog. I've made it clear that they will be responsible for it/its mess/its costs/exercise/meals etc

Our youngest child is 2, loves animals, & is used to our neighbour's cat who spends a lot of time in our house. We also have 5,8 & 10 year old girls (and a couple more older ones but don't want to out myself!)

There is always someone at home, so a breed that wants company pretty much round the clock would suit us well.

Exercise - an hour a day we could easily manage

Low-shedding pls!

Don't mind even daily grooming, as there's enough of us to take turns, as long as it's fairly simple to learn how to do.

In a terraced house, and I'm noise-sensitive, so not a yappy breed or one prone to incessant barking.

My research has thrown up: bichon frise, poodles (miniature?), Maltese (my DDs don't like the look of those tho)... they live all the cute Daschund & Cavalier crossbreeds, which I'm trying to warn them against...

Any advice welcome

Oh, and they also wake up during the night, often multiple times, and will howl or bark or cry until you go to them.

I got a puppy with a not-quite 2 yr old and other DC in the house. The downside was a shortage of time for training, but the dog grew up to have decent manners, was fabulous with the DC and had a long and happy life.

It absolutely can be done if you have the dedication to fit in the walks, even if that means turning out at 8pm on a snowy night.

Another vote for a cairn! They're quite had to find now though. Brilliant little dogs.

I totally agree. We have a Cairn who is nearly twelve from Lindcoly. A lovely personality. Another good choice of dog that would meet your criteria is a Miniature Schnauzer.

Scottish Terrier. Fabulous dogs. Low shed, real characters, clever.

Spell it out for me - why is a puppy incompatible with a 2 year old? (Genuine question.)

Puppies are very mouthy as they are learning, they will play by using their mouths and their teeth are like rows of tiny sharp needles (literally!). My lab puppy regularly left me with bleeding scratches in the early days whilst we taught him not to play bite. Whilst they are learning they will also jump up.

As others have said you'd also need to be careful about the puppy chewing/eating toddlers toys. And also be mindful of toxic dog foods e.g. if toddler throws a grape on the floor and puppy eats it, grapes are extremely toxic to dogs.

French bulldog but costly insurance

We have a schnoodle, gorgeous family dog. She's incredibly loyal and great recall.
Her downside - she can get a bit jealous. Has never bitten, she's generally very gentle, but she is quite protective of me and will bark/jump up at anyone who gives me a hug. Annoying but manageable.

We'd love a schnauzer if we ever got another dog.

We have a poodle/schnauzer.

utterly shit recall. Had training sessions for years and still if she’s on a walk and sees something she’s off.

skin/coat is a nightmare and needs very regular attention. Also a bit stinky.

needs a lot of input or gets bored and starts destroying things.

loves water, but is a shit swimmer and often has to be fished out of ponds she jumps into.

this is the issue with crosses. You have no idea which breed traits it will inherit.

@toomanytonotice

Oh it's definitely an issue. Ours isn't anything like that, she doesn't shed or having any issues, hates water etc. However, a family member has her brother and he's the opposite of her, can't really be trusted around strangers, recall isn't amazing (although I think that's partly due to lack of training), sheds like anything. A lot of people can't believe they are siblings!

Nobody should be recommending a French Bulldog 😬

@HBGKC Ok firstly the negatives from your posts - nobody wants to travel far, or spend higher amounts of money, but you need to find a breeder you are happy with, the good ones may charge a higher price. Be prepared to travel as far as needed, and pay (a not stupid price) but higher than you think. Good breeders however would prefer to see a pup in a good home than charge a higher price.

Secondly, do not get a spaniel or a beagle as have suggested, or a French Bulldog or Dachshund. Or any other gundog or hound, they will not fit your life.

Coat - steer away from breeds such as the coton or maltese - you may say you have time for grooming but you won't. If it is a coated breed, choose one which can be done at a groomers, and factor in the cost of sending to be groomed on a periodic basis, and find a groomere BEFORE you get a pup, you are happy with and they are used to whichever breed you choose.

Do not rush into buying, especially with a 2 year old at home, even another year, maybe 2 would make all the difference. Pups are like having another 2 year old at the same time, not always a good combination.

The positives - yes to going to Discover Dogs, the November one in London is not happening this year, but the one at Crufts 2025 in March will be. You will see breeds you have never even thought of, and you will get to meet them, speak to breeders and get the good and bad for each your are drawn too.

Once you decide your breed, take your time to find a good breeder, they will be one who are unlikely to have puppies, but will be prepared to add you to a waiting list for a planned mating at sometime in the future. The breeder will check you out as much as you do them. Be prepared to wait for a puppy, it will be worth it.

As to breeds, I still maintain going to Discover Dogs - I do tend to agree about Cairn Terriers, I would also add Bedlington Terriers - a bit bigger than a Cairn, but known to be one of the less terrier like terriers in disposition.

@fieldsofbutterflies why not? We had ours for 12 years now and he's a beautiful family dog... or is it because of breeding gone too far?

Yeah, bad breeding basically, and it's such a shame because in terms of personality, they're amazing little things. All the Frenchies (and pugs) I've met have impeccable temperaments, but their health is a disaster.

The average life span of a French Bulldog is now 4 years old 😔

Bad breeders yes, but also the people who want to have a FB which encouraged the puppy farmers especially during covid and is still ongoing. If there were not the people prepared to pay stupid amounts of money for them, there would be less breeding from the puppy farms.

Exactly.

I've even seen "Merle" Frenchies, wire-haired Frenchies and long-haired Frenchies being advertised - wtf is that all about?!

@fieldsofbutterflies agree that's really bad.. we were lucky with no health issues touch wood but we got ours whilst living outside of the UK

Cairns are lovely, or a Westie? But, really? I’d go with a long haired Chihuahua. Will enjoy an hour long walk but be perfectly happy to forgo it if it’s pissing down, super loyal and loving, bags of personality packed into a small body, less barky than the terriers or short haired chi, easily portable, easy to train, shed a bit but are so small it’s not an issue. They are more robust than you’d think and not easily breakable but will need supervision with your 2 yr old, like any dog would.

Thoughts on miniature poodles? Or a poodle/cross?

My issue with poodle crosses is they are virtually impossible to fine reputable breeders of.
Poodles are great but can be anxious and clingy.

If you want to avoid noise and yapping, don't get a miniature schnauzer. They are wonderful (mostly) in other ways - don't shed, lots of fun, intelligent and affectionate. But they are incredibly vocal. And a bit clingy.

Obviously you can train dogs and I'm sure you could train an MS to be less...alert. but it's a lot of work and they are genetically disposed to be noisy and alert.

Lurcher are ace. As are border terriers.

Can I ask, OP, how you’ll walk the dog (and do everything else) when you have four kids under ten (including one who is ten). You can’t rely on adult children forever. Lots of people struggle with one child and a puppy. Yet alone four.

I’m not trying to be difficult, I am genuinely a bit nervous of you getting any of the dogs you’re considering given the serious time commitment/ general commitment involved. Poodles/mongrel mixes require a lot of exercise, grooming and socialisation. Cockerpooos, in particular often have the worst traits of both breeds - nervous, neurotic, mouthy, yappy, hyperactive + difficult coats. Plus they’re rarely bred well (poodle mongrels) and have soo many awful health issues

We have a beautiful blue roan cocker spaniel.
I have 7&3 year olds. She is amazing with them.
She has a wonderful temperament. Listens well, toilet trained easily and is generally very easy going.
She is 5 now and honestly couldn't imagine our home without her

One thing I hadn’t factored in (and it sounds a little bit stupid), is that a dog is another ‘person’ in your house, with its own wants, needs and demands. It’s not a cuddly toy that’s alive, but another being. You have several children already, and getting a puppy is adding to that brood.(and I’m definantly not in the fur baby/dog mom camp).

breed wise a miniature poodle would be a fantastic choice IMO

I have one and he was the best call I ever made, having never seriously considered poodles previously (don't personally like the traditional 'look')

He is VERY family oriented - anyone he decides is in his gang he will love forever - that includes all our extended family and friends. He has never been a 'one person' dog - and I think that is a poodle thing, they don't tend to attach to just one person.

VERY intelligent - so brain work has to happen daily, but with the keen to please personality it also makes him very trainable.

but he is just as happy with a 20 min walk around the park as a 3hr romp through the countryside (always been strict to not have a routine to ensure this - average an hour a day in the week, longer at weekends / days off)

obviously grooming needs are high with a poodle, but we clip him short to keep it easy

not too barky, fine to be left alone - not overjoyed but not anxious / stressed about it either. I tend to leave him a puzzle toy and he doesn't even notice me leave.

doesn't take up much room, and is happiest with his gang

however - you've got a lot of commitments already so do seriously consider how much time you can give, for the first year or so its a lot of work