Dog bite - should I worry?

[SheShoots]

My dog bit me quite hard on the hand today, she didn’t break the skin but it was enough to bruise. She broke a claw a few days ago and had it removed under sedation today - she is very wobbly and groggy. She was trying to lie down but had the bandaged foot stuck, I tried to gently lift it to help her lie down and she immediately bit down very hard on my hand - no warning but she is very spacey. I’ll keep her separate from my other dog and I’ve warned the DCs to leave her well alone.

She has bitten me once before a few months ago - I was getting her into pyjamas (she has a short coat and gets cold at night), usually she shows no signs of being concerned when I’m putting them on her. On this occasion she was on the sofa and maybe felt trapped - again she bit hard but didn’t break the skin. No growling etc. Is this a concern?

It sounds like both times she felt vulnerable, and possibly in pain today. Any dog who is in pain or cornered is at risk of lashing out.

You've done the right thing by separating the animals and telling the children to stay away. Just make sure they do, and keep an eye on the dog moving forward.

Sounds like she bit you this time because she was in pain and you touched the particularly painful part.

The earlier, she could have been in pain generally, being old and cold and then trapped and feeling pulled around to get the clothing on.

I think she needs to be monitored by the vet at the very least.

ETA: I didn't ask the big question. How large is she? A smaller sized dog biting when being hurt is a different ballgame to a large or giant breed.

Ouch! If the bite didn’t break the skin you should be fine, I’d speak to her vet to ask for pain relief for her though as it sounds like she’s lashing out as she’s sore

Not an expert but fellow bitey-dog owner
I think if she's biting but not breaking the skin then she is holding back, which is a good sign.
Are your children old enough to listen when you say to give her space? I'd only worry if they were young, DS was a teenager before we got our one so wasn't a worry and we manage it.
Yes to asking vet if she might need painkillers, as pain probably caused it.

Maybe the claw was causing the problem then, too.

See how she is, and recognise she's not as handleable as she used to be- age, pain, short temper.

My boy just doesn't enjoy rough housing the way he used to. He's tolerating us, humouring us, rather than actually being fully into it. Ditto walking. "What, again? Really? Well I'm not rushing, I'm telling you now. I'll come for a sniff but don't be rushing me along!"

Thanks everyone, I feel better for a handhold. It bruises your ego a bit, as well as the physical bruises. She's actually not old, she'll be 4 in a few months. She's wobbly from the sedation today, and short coated so feels the cold despite her youth.

@NeverDropYourMooncup she's 20kg so a medium size dog, big enough that a proper bite would be serious.

@JackieGoodman my youngest DC is 11 so they'll definitely avoid her now they've been warned. I won't be taking my eyes off them though.

I just called the vet to clarify when I'm starting the meloxicam (tomorrow) I asked if I could give her paracetamol and they said it's fine, so she's just had some in a babybel. She's sleeping in sun now, she doesn't want to walk because it hurts presumably. I don't want to lift her after the bite so I'll coax her in with food in a bit.

I agree with PPs. Depending on how old your dog is, this could well be an issue you find yourself facing for several more years. Older dogs rarely take well to being touched (even the most placid) as they are often in pain, or feel fragile.

As other PPs said, if she really wanted to hurt you (assuming she still has teeth!) she could.

I wouldn't worry about her behaviour, but more that she is in pain/getting old.

Personally, I would worry about a relatively young, large dog biting that hard on two separate occasions, especially as you say there was no obvious warning in either scenario.

I wouldn't be having her around my children unsupervised going forward if she's a bite risk.

Thanks @fieldsofbutterflies I plan to keep monitoring her behaviour, I’m going to discuss it with the vet tomorrow when they change the dressing because they plan to sedate her again which I’d rather avoid. She is a different dog today although she’s obviously still in pain, yesterday she was completely dysphoric after the sedation, she even peed in the house which she hasn’t done since she was a puppy. Lesson learned that she has the potential to bite in that state. I won’t be leaving the DCs unattended with her while she’s in pain, but I’ve never left them unsupervised with any dog as children, that’s always been a hard rule. Two of the DCs are strapping adults now so in normal circumstances they do occasionally do dog duties. They all know she bit me when I touched her bandaged foot, and they’re very dog savvy.

I wouldn’t be overly worried HOWEVER it would be pertinent to do sone husbandry training with her as it helps when you do need to handle her. It’s easy and makes a big difference.

I'm definately no expert, I'm a 1st time dog guardian of a 9 month pup. So all I can say is how I'd feel if my dog did this and to share my limited experience which is unlikely to be relevant to you. My puppy did bite me so it broke my skin 2 or 3 times when he was less than 4 months old. Even though he was tiny, I was concerned then because each time it appeared strategic, designed to make me give him the food I was holding or to stop me touching him (when I was attempting to untangle his lead from his paw).
I was assured then by more experienced dog people (including my puppy's trainer) that this was completely normal puppy behaviour which he would grow out of. That was partly true. But looking back, I can also see now that my inexperience was a factor. I understood the importance of having a well socialised puppy and knew I had a short window to do it all in. So I took him to lots of places. Looking back, I saw him as a relatively blank canvas who, if I followed the books, would become my perfect puppy. I didn't listen to him as an individual enough. I wasn't skilled enough at reading his body language to know how to. I knew from books 'whale eyes' and a furrowed brow were signs of stress. My pup had those alot but I nievely thought that was just how he looked, the furrowing was his cute puppy wrinkles or curiosity, the whale eyes were just his beautiful puppy eyes taking in the world. I didn't want to believe he was stressed alot of the time. He was my long awaited perfect puppy. I made so many mistakes borne from inexperience that I would love to go back and do differently. Looking at dog ladder of communication really helped me to understand dogs' stress signals (e.g. licking lips, yawning) and to try to respond to them. I still make unintentional mistakes. I've just re-read the dig ladder of communication and have realised there are stull countless stress signals I miss and inadvertently ignore.
If he bit me as an adult dog I'd feel like you do too.
If it was a one time thing when you helped her move her stuck paw I'd probably be able to reassure myself to some extent that she was not herself. She was groggy and almost certainly in pain.
However as there was also the time when you were putting on her pyjamas, I'd also be asking more questions of myself; of more experienced dog people than myself; of a good trainer and vet; of books. I'd want to put it down to pain but deep down I'd know I needed answers to why it had happened twice, seemingly without warning, and to formulate a solution based on that. I'm not expert enough to help with that. The answers you find will likely be different from mine. All I could give you would be a list of questions that probably wouldn't help you. You already have more questions than answers. So all I can say is to say I think you're right to be concerned and to be asking questions. The only suggestions I can make are to really trust your instincts and make sure the answers you find satisfy your instincts. Also consider googling the canine ladder of aggression / communication. Writing this has likely helped me more than its helped you. It's been a reminder to myself to review that canine ladder of communication again and to really try to listen to what my dog is telling me more than what I want to hear.

No, i wouldn’t worry. One of mine bit me when she got her head stuck in a gate (to this day I don’t know HOW she did that) and I was trying to get her out and another bit me when I was trying to remove a sticky bob that had got terribly tangled in her long coat. Neither dog would bite under normal circumstances ever, but they were in pain and frightened. All dogs have the capacity to react with aggression in that situation.

"Personally, I would worry about a relatively young, large dog biting that hard on two separate occasions, especially as you say there was no obvious warning in either scenario."

+1. I have done my fair share of behavioural euthanasias and most cases have bite or lunging as if to bite histories on several occasions, explained away each time by "well that time I think I kind of took him by surprise moving him off the sofa and that other time he had a sore leg, and that other time there was another dog near his favourite toy stressing him".

I suppose I don't hear so much about the happy ever after ones but I'm sad where there's a quietly escalating history over a couple of years, then it racks up a few notches and it's too late. Not saying two instances equals future disaster but I would try to future proof now, with an APBC (or similarly qualified) behaviourist.

"think if she's biting but not breaking the skin then she is holding back, which is a good sign."
I would expect better bite inhibition in an adult dog. Ok she might have still been affected by the sedation but..
...why will they need to sedate her for dressing change? Dealing with the initial injury, for sure, or changing a complicated dressing on a big wound but most dogs should tolerate changing a light dressing a few days after a broken nail. If she is the sort who is too feardy or fighty to do that without sedation, you need that behaviourist.

Spaniel?

It was a complicated dressing - several layers of dressing over a large portion of her lower leg. As it is I was keen to not to sedate her again so I removed it myself and put a cone on. She wasn’t happy about it, she was licking my hands as I was removing it, so I kept stopping to give her breaks, but she didn’t air snap or bite. So on this occasion she gave me clear signals that she wasn’t comfortable. I do think she would not have bitten me if she wasn’t recovering from sedation. I definitely don’t want to minimise a behavioural problem though, I’ve been thinking about it and it is handling related so that gives me something to work on. She’s a pointer, they’re known to be quite anxious when it comes to anything husbandry related

I will also muzzle train her when she’s feeling better. Given she bit me post procedure, I would not be comfortable letting vets/nurses handle her without one from now on.

If she's wanted to hurt you she would have. You need to respect her boundaries more. She was in pain and you could have been more careful. Dogs don't need nightclothes. I take it she doesn't sleep outside ? She's not a baby she's a dog.

@whyhavetheygotsomany I was being careful, she had her paw stuck. She is lean and has a single coat (short-coated breed). If she doesn’t wear something at night in the winter she starts to whine at about 4am. If she has something on, she sleeps through the night 🤷‍♀️

Pointers are working dogs, they honestly don't need to wear clothes. Use blankets or cave beds etc. for her if she feels the cold.

@fieldsofbutterflies I know they’re working dogs. She happily works for hours in temperatures well below freezing with no coat, but she’s working and not lying down sleeping. Over night is a different story. After the bite I got her an equafleece that goes over her head and clips under her chest so much easier to get on. I tried blankets but she’d get out and expect me to help her back in in the middle of the night. If I put pyjamas on her we both get uninterrupted sleep

Well, it's obviously your decision, but if my dog had bitten me while trying to get them into pajamas, I would take that as a very firm signal that they weren't happy with it and would stop and figure out another solution.

Thanks @fieldsofbutterflies she seems fine with the fleece as it’s essentially the same as putting on a collar. I’ve ditched the ones where I have to put her legs into it. Sorry if the tone of my last reply wasn’t great, that wasn’t my intention

If she's okay with the new style then that works - that's what I meant about finding a different solution. Most dogs don't like having their legs restricted as it's really unnatural for them.

DH once bought our beagle a coat with legs and he just stood there and refused to move

Ha! My mum’s little terrier was like that when she bought her a coat. Her feet were suddenly welded to the floor and that was that