Puppy passed away from Vaccination

[Holidayhavanas]

Hello

Please I know Cavapoos aren’t the favourite breed on here, but we decided that a cavapoo was a great fit for our family after looking after a friend’s last year. I’m devastated to find out tonight that the puppy that we were planning on bringing home in a few weeks has passed away after her first vaccination. The breeder has said that this has never happened to them before and has offered a refund or to wait for the next litter (whenever that may be). My head is a mess as I’m so upset for the poor pup, I’m also thinking about the DC that were getting so much excited. DH feels he has no trust in breeder ( we did our research now I’m worried about health issues related to breeding?). Would you ask for the refund in this circumstance or wait for next litter?

Is the offered next puppy from the same bitch though? I have a friend who is a registered breeder (of a ‘proper’ breed), it’s her retirement occupation/hobby😁. Her dogs live in luxury, her bitches have puppies every second year but she has multiple bitches so in this instance would possibly have another litter coming but not from the same mum. She doesn’t have bitches having litters at the same time, as she has a special ‘nursery’ room in the house so just likes one litter at a time to concentrate on.

She doesn’t overbreed her girls either but the hard part is then having them desexed and having them go to special ‘forever’ homes. She will only contemplate people for this by word of mouth/through people she knows that will provide the best home for her breeding girls and occasional boy. One of my relatives has one as does one of my other friends, and they feel so lucky to have these girls and they are truly treated like the queens they are.

Sorry, should have made clear intended point of the post is that not all breeders are evil money grabbers. Some really do it for love of a breed and when you take the costs of the set ups, top quality diet, vet care etc then often they make little to no money. My friend charges a lot for a puppy but averaged over a few years pretty much breaks even due to high expenses in caring for them. Fine by her as it’s a retirement ‘hobby’.

I agree with the above, OP. That would actually really put me off. It may be true, and puppies can have nasty vaccine reactions, but can you prove it?

I’d ask for a refund and carry on your search. As for Cavapoos themselves, we have a few round here and they all have varying temperaments. Some are absolute delights and some are furry little terrors.

I think you've had a very lucky escape.

I think there are a small number of "doodle" breeders who do the right thing but they are incredibly few and far between and will (rightly) have massive waiting lists. However, this person doesn't sound like one of them.

I agree with the PP who said to do your research and looking into toy or mini poodles instead. They're such lovely dogs and so often overlooked.

I thought it used to be 2 years but that’s what came up when I googled. What the Kennel Club has allowed (and encouraged) to happen with some flat faced breeds is awful. Dogs with breathing issues is the end result. I’m no fan of the KC.

The only positive thing that comes from the KC is the breeding restrictions. They mean that the mother can’t be used to produce litter after litter and they allow the breeder to put endorsements on the registrations of the puppies they sell. An endorsement means that you can’t KC register a litter bred from that puppy in the future. All the breeders I (and my family) have had dogs from had those endorsements put on as standard. You need to ask the breeder to lift it if you want to breed from your dog.

Just because a breeder follows all those rules doesn’t necessarily make them a ‘good’ breeder but it’s a lot easier to pick one out when everything is recorded. You can see how many litters they have registered and how frequently they have one for sale. You still need to go and see them, see the mother with the litter and ask the right questions but the restrictions have filtered out a lot of the shitty breeders for you.

I’ve received my deposit back. I wrote what I thought was a sensitive email to breeder stating how devastated we are and how hard it must be for her and her family. She transferred the money but no reply. Weird. Anyway not told children yet.

I think the lack of reply tells you all you needed to know - she's a puppy farmer and she's annoyed she's lost money from you. End of.

Find a better breeder for next time!

Maybe don't tell your children the truth either - tell them you realised that the breeder wasn't breeding healthy puppies and you're going to get a puppy that will be healthier(?)

Puppies do die. My girl lost two at birth. I was so upset. A friends puppy keeled over and died, heart issue.

I'd go to another breeder.

I think that tells you everything you need to know, tbh.

Count your lucky stars that you didn't end up with a sick, badly bred puppy.

I'm not defending the breeder, because healthy puppies don't die from vaccinations, BUT you don't know if the offer of a pup from another litter was from the same butch or not.

so sure, swerve the breeder, but don't make stuff up

This.

This is a great way to phrase it, thank you. I think the puppies dying is far too upsetting for the DC.

@justasking111

yes, obviously puppies do die, like any other species their young don't always survive.

but healthy puppies don't die from vaccinations.

I wish I hadn't read this 😭 I had no idea. Those poor dogs.. there's a special place in hell for anyone who is involved in puppy farms..
I don't have dogs but grew up with two cocker spaniels. I'm a cat person now 😄 I would love a dog but understand the huge responsibility they are. Jesus this world is cruel 💔

@Holidayhavanas

im glad you've got your deposit back!

I do agree that she sounds dodgy!!

Definitely don't tell your kids the puppy died, even if it had there are better things for them to think than that and I don't believe it anyway. I'd tell them the puppy was the smallest one & it has to stay with its mummy to grow properly. Tell yourself that too!! I very much doubt it was a healthy puppy & died, whatever the truth if the situation I thinks it's for the best it didn't make it to your house.

there are lots of poo crosses, many of them VERY cute & the ones. I know are all great dogs, but there are lots of messed up ones too.

i have a spaniel sized hole in my life, if I didn't though, I'd consider an actual poodle, without the daft hair cuts they're gorgeous dogs. My friend used to have a black giant poodle - he was absolutely gorgeous. Only down side was getting stopped every 5 minutes so people could make a fuss & say how gorgeous he was!

I miss the old boy.

Best wishes finding a lovely dog to become part of your family!!

It is a red flag though that they have so many puppies readily available. Even if it is multiple bitches that’s still indicative of a puppy farm having multiple litters at once.

puppies are hard work. My breeder has one litter every few years as it’s so hard. She sleeps on the couch by the whelping pen for weeks- before birth and until they’re all eyes open and independent. My neighbours had a “oh it would be lovely for our bitch to have a litter before we neuter her” and swore never again. Apparently they’re worse than babies, you’re totally tied and can’t go out for months without arranging for someone to come in to let mum out, stop the puppies trashing everything etc.

multiple litters at the same time, or a breeder with more than one breed of dog, I would swerve massively.

She doesn’t overbreed her girls either but the hard part is then having them desexed and having them go to special ‘forever’ homes. She will only contemplate people for this by word of mouth/through people she knows that will provide the best home for her breeding girls and occasional boy.

So in other words, she breeds from them then when they are no longer useful for breeding she rehomes them because she can't make anymore money from them? That makes her no better than other puppy farmers

@Runningbird43

yeah , it's a LOT of work when done properly!!

the 'breeder' offered wait for the next litter (whenever that may be)

she didn't say nor imply she had other puppies or pregnant bitches, or when this bitch would have another litter.

it grinds my gears when people make stuff up, if people stuck to the actual facts these threads would be more useful

It sounds like she's satisfying a demand for well-bred dogs. If she's being responsible with the health of the dogs and about whom she rehomes them to, then she's doing nothing wrong.

The alternative is that she keeps every bitch until she has a torrent of dogs aged 0 to 14 that hurtle to greet you at the door. Yup, I know one of those.

OP, have you considered a bichon frise? Very similar scale to a cavapoo and usually good with children.

Was it Lepto 4 vaccination? It's not as uncommon as people think, sadly many dogs are lost to Lepto 4 vaccine.

https://www.vetvoices.co.uk/post/leptospirosis-vaccine-a-silent-killer

Under 7 adverse reactions (all reactions, not deaths) per 10,000.

My vet friend thinks we are over vaccinating. We're over flea treating and worming also. These poor dumb animals are being inundated with drugs monthly and yearly.

A friends mother takes her dachshund religiously every month to check his claws, he's then wormed, deflead. Vaccines annually. He only goes in the garden for exercise, otherwise he's in some bag device, feet off the ground. She pays £48 a month for flea, worm treatment. Apart from the vaccines.

Working dogs are all over farms, yards, land daily, drinking out of puddles. Owners don't get them seen to monthly. They don't die early.

Hi all , it was Vanguard 7. The breeder did get back to me and did sound upset. The next litter is due in the next few weeks but different mum. I spoke to a cavapoo owner in the park yesterday and they recommended Anna’s Perfect Pooches and I contacted them and they said they don’t vaccinate because of early deaths. I also thought the amount of puppies they are breeding it wasn’t for us. I love bichons just need to convince DH.

Another litter in a few weeks with a different mum? Sorry, OP, but that's a puppy farmer. A good breeder won't have more than one litter a year simply because doing it well (giving the puppies and the bitch the TLC they need) is exhausting. A good breeder will likely not sleep properly for the first 4-5 weeks post-birth as they'll constantly be cleaning the whelping pan, with the mother, socialising the pups etc.

You've really had a lucky escape here.

On 'Perfect Pooches' they're also a puppy farm. Multiple breeds of dogs and multiple litters all at once? Puppy farming.

PLEASE use the kennel club and cross-reference with Champ Dogs and consult widely. Do not rely on word of mother (as evidence by your example, people think that a fancy website = good puppies, it doesn't). Any breeder that has more than one litter a year is to be 100% avoided at all costs. Any breeder that has multiple dogs breeds that they breed from us to be avoided. Any breeder that has more than two breeding bitches is to be avoided.

There's so many risks with buying a puppy from these people and, as you've already seen, the end result is often really unpleasant for the puppies, the bitches (who are dumped after they've outlived their purpose) and the potential owners.

Both your original breeder and the one recommended to you sound like puppy farmers - the latter definitely so.

Please, please do some proper research before committing to another dog.