Puppy Survival Thread for New and Old Pups - Spring is around the corner!

[Lougle]

A thread for puppy owners to share their ups and downs as we head into Spring. We're not just here for the idyllic moments. We've all had a cry at some point!

All posters welcome - just dive in.

The previous thread is here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/the_doghouse/4945764-puppy-survival-thread-for-old-and-new-pups-heading-into-winter?page=1

@BrodiePupI don't have a puppy at the moment, but I enjoy lurking on these threads.

So much of raising puppies is down to the luck of the draw. My current dog, now almost 3 years old, was a very easy puppy in most respects and I know how lucky I was! If you're concerned about your pup walking on a lead, I would say don't be hard on yourself. Most things we teach dogs are natural behaviours they would do anyway, but there is nothing natural about walking on a lead. So it can take quite a while to click. I would say begin training in the house and don't even put a lead on him. Just get him used to walking by your side. When he's happy to do that, put the lead on in the house and practice that way. Then move outside to the garden, then to a quiet road, etc. Each training session should be very short at his age, of course.

But even doing all that, puppies can become overexcited when they're out in the big wide world! I remember taking mine on a walk when he was about 5 months old and there were so many people and dogs around that he was overwhelmed. It wasn't his fault, it was mine for putting him in that position.

Also, I always cheerfully ignore the "5 minutes per month of age" thing. It has no scientific basis whatsoever. Obviously, one should never overdo it with young puppies, but my dog would have been climbing the walls if I'd stuck to 15 minutes of exercise when he was 3 months old or 20 minutes at 4 months, etc.

I completely understand what you mean about the constant vigilance. But this stage really doesn't last long. Take heart, your pup will grow up faster than you could imagine. And take lots of pictures, because you will miss his puppyhood someday and want to look back at how cute he was!

Don't despair BrodiePup. I'm struggling too . I think most pup owners do particularly ones who are not getting out of house much. My pup is my sole companion most days. I have found it lonely and frustrating but try to focus on what went well. I can't advise on his outdoor behaviour. I can say try to hang on. X

@tizwozliz I totally agree with the overstimulation, the problem is he's decided this is where he poos...or under the dining table...so I've got to get him there. Hopefully he'll grow out of it.
@JamieJ93 Milo is gorgeous!
@OperationPushkin Sensible advice I think I'm going to take the walking back a couple of steps. Thank you so much for your reply.
@Ilovehimbut I'm sorry you're going through this too, but it is nice to know that I'm not the only one. I can't believe how hard I'm finding it. Stay strong and hopefully we'll both see some light at the end of the tunnel.
Thanks everyone, your kind messages have made a horrible day that bit brighter.

@BrodiePup I feel your pain. It's been really hard work and I see a lot of myself in what you're posting. I have a horse and a cat as well and they've definitely had to take a side line at the moment which I also feel massively guilty about!
But, we're at 6 months old now and I know to expect her behaviour to deteriorate a little, we are now starting to see glimpses of the dog she will be!
Despite the barking still, which is very slowly improving, the walking is better, and she rarely has an accident inside now. So hold on in there!!

I also don't pay much attention to the 5 min rule, if she wants to walk she can, if she wants to rest she can!

I'll also add, she's getting to a stage where we can leave her with family for a few hours without worrying about her behaviour/weeing everywhere which is definitely helping. Just to get a bit of time back!

My Vet said she didn’t think much of the ‘5 minute rule’ and laughed, saying it certainly wouldn’t work with a Weimaraner 😳 I reviewed the veterinary literature on this issue. The science says the problems come with enforced, or excessively encouraged exercise, not with free running behaviour. So pounding pavements on the lead for long periods, or repeatedly throwing a ball to chase can produce too much strain on young joints, but free running around, sniffing etc is not an issue, since a youngster won’t choose to overdo it, but will instead sit or lie down for a few minutes, then you know they have done enough. Throwing balls etc, encourages them just to keep running.

@Jonsnowsghost it's so good to hear that it does get better, hopefully if I can get through the next couple of months everything will calm down and I can get a bit of time back. You owe your horse and puss cat huge cuddles now!
I contacted the gundog people yesterday who's stud dog is Brodie's dad, they're starting a 5 week course on the 16th for puppies/intro into gundog training. They know he's going to be a pet, and said it's more spaniel based training than the puppy classes we go to at the moment, so would be more appropriate. It will be a 80 mile round trip, but I think we're going to go for it.
I've always been sceptical about the 5 minute rule too...though at the moment a 20 minute walk with no insanity would be lovely!!

Aaannnddd she's just weed on the sofa!! Something she's never done. Think she just got too excited playing 🤦🏼‍♀️

@BrodiePup
Milo and I have never ever adhered to the "5 minute rule" he would go batshit and I would have had a mental breakdown by week 20 😂😂 he was off lead on his first walk.
Recall training is best to be started right away and I mean right away because like I said by adolescence... Poof and it's gone .. again 😂😂
We've had a good few days but I'm not counting my chickens because he's definitely luring me into a false sense of security and is going to start doing my head in any time soon.

we've been for max's sending vaccinations today so i'm counting down the days to get him out and about. he's still up and down with toileting, mostly just wee accidents and he's started whining at the back door when he needs a poo. last couple of days he's destroyed one or two of his toys with his shark teeth, i think im going to have to invest in some stronger toys. i'm popping his collar on every day but he's still not keen on it and stops to scratch it every so often at it. before we brought pup home i imagined sitting on the bench in the garden with puppa laying next to me, i laugh now when i think about it because there's absolutely no sitting down when im out in the garden with him!! haha

Maggie started her first season today!

Hope it goes smoothly @thenewaveragebear1983

@thenewaveragebear1983 good luck! We're on day 14 of Hazel's.

How does it work with neutering bitches? I am planning to get Moxie 'helped' in the next month, when he's 7 months old. Do bitches have to go through a season before spaying or ae you not planning to do so? I have no idea what the pros and cons are, but Moxie needs help anyway as he only has one descended little ball.

Our vet said to leave Maggie 2 years before spaying (she’s a lab) I know some small breeds are recommended to be done much younger.

The latest research paper showed 12 months+ for female labs and 6 months+ for male labs, taking into account joints, behaviour, malignancies and urinary incontinence. Although there is a new massive systematic review that's come out. Lab growth plates are closed by 12 months, which is why they do the hip scoring then for breeding bitches/dogs.

For bitches, you need to wait 4 months after the start of a season before spaying.

I think we're going to have Hazel spayed after her first season, so she'll be 13 months-ish.

It’s also good to consider post spay incontinence for bitches. Up to 1/3 seem to develop it. I have had 3 spayed (large breed) bitches over the years. One, so 1/3 of my tiny sample developed it. It’s a big problem to manage. There is treatment to reduce it, but that comes with its own potential side effects. I had been planning to have Flora spayed, but recent literature shows some breeds are especially vulnerable to developing it - Weimaraners, Dobermans and one other that I can’t recall (it wasn’t Labs, or Spaniels). Flora is a Weimaraner, so that clinched it for me. I can put up with her being in season for a few weeks twice a year.

okay so we installed the doorbells on the 30th and on the initial day he set them off several times. i assume sniffing the scent of our hands etc. after that first day he stopped.
before going out or coming in we had him touch the sensor pad, Fin looked like a deer in the headlights a very pathetic sight for sure.
now today on two occasions to come in from outdoors he purposefully set off the sensor.

indoor bladder accidents very very rare (two in 10 days type rare).
he's almost as big as our older airedale, he remains respectful of the old (toothless) fellow but my oh my on a few occasions looked like he was mopping the floor with the little tibetan! have no fear the shorter tibby maneuvers under him and nips his legs or between his legs...the little fellow actually appears to seek him out to play...
toys, Fin reaches in the toy box for toys and brings them to us which is helpful.
mischievous skill this week, seeking out the irrigation lines dh repairs and promptly (or nearly so) pulls them out. he can smell the scent of his hands and finds the lines even when we keep him indoors while dh does the work.
counter surfing has continued with him scoffing a really nice brownie, my back was turned as i made tea.

Does anyone have any recommendations for training treats please?
This reward based training is all well and good, but Brodie seems to get an upset stomach whatever I use, and I know it's not his kibble because he's fine if that's all he has. Unfortunately he doesn't like it enough to use that as his reward.

@BrodiePup liver cake, cheese (but go easy because of pancreatitis), ham (but go easy because of salt), chicken, hot dog sausage (mind salt), bits of normal sausages, turkey, dehydrated sprats...so many options.

@BrodiePup we use dehydrated liver
https://www.amazon.ca/NutriBites-Healthy-Training-Natural-Ingredient/dp/B0CY5GK97T/ref=asc_df_B0CY5GK97T/?tag=googlemobshop-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=697516490081&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10581336425333718911&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001465&hvtargid=pla-2306439662589&psc=1&mcid=9b0a14e75c743e3ca5c4d2bc681e6d3a&gad_source=1

our vet uses them.

I like JR Pate for training treats.

I use puppy kibble as the bulk of her training treats, then use additional extras so every few treats is an extra nice one. We feed Millie’s wolfheart and the pieces are too big but they do snap into 4 if you get the right ones. If we’re working on something new I sometimes grate a bit of cheese onto a tray and leave it out to dry, this then makes lots of tiny dried bits of cheese for treats.

but basically Maggie is eternally hungry and will pretty much do anything for a piece of her own kibble 🤦‍♀️

For high value training treats anytime I bring liver cake with me, a gaggle of dogs mug me for it. Usually labs and spaniels but I'm in a gundog area! We love it, they erupt from the undergrowth.
Liver cake is disgusting but easy, wizz a packet of liver in your blender with 4 eggs and a tiny amount of flour - about a heaped big spoon. Just enough to bind it. If you wizz it for long enough it will go rubbery, like a Thai fish cake rather than a cake cake so it won't crumble in your pocket. Freezes fine.
We reserve it for high value treats, so she doesn't get it all the time - it's very rich so it's not an everyday treat.
Otherwise it's jrpets pate and natures menu do a 95% meat treat. Because fluffdog is so highly motivated by treats, she does get a lot so I do need to make sure it's not crap she gets.
Oh and Millie's do a 80% kibble which has rabbit and trout in it - it smells vile (I'm veggie) and we use that as well.

@BrodiePup
Regarding training treats, are you sure they are the cause of loose poop, could it be excitement? Just a thought.
I'm very bad at sleeping too, currently I'm 'allowed ' one sleeping pill every 3 nights, the other 2 are awful. Not pup's fault at all, but the general anxiety that has come with having a pup makes it even harder to fall asleep.
Mine is 5 months now, I can do a bit more and can leave her for long enough to shop locally or pop to friends for tea and a sound off.
But still can't play my piano, knit etc. I'm on my own with her.
A while back there was a lovely post by ShetlandIsla which helped me. maybe page 18?
As well as all the other support here.
But anyway, all I can say is you're not alone in being awake when you really can't afford it wasn't to be, and try to take it day by day.
Very best wishes
X