What Would You Do? - French Bulldog issues

[Createausername1970]

II am in a bit of a dilemma, so would appreciate input.

We have a 10 year old French Bulldog. Always had environmental allergies, resulting in red patches on her belly and sore paws. She also has a long history of tummy upsets, being sick, runny poo etc.

Last October she had a very bad reaction to something, her itching and soreness erupted overnight and was accompanied by V&D. Cue numerous trips to the vet, various injections, tablets and change of diet. The vet said she had a very bad allergic episode and this had affected her inside as well as outside and had triggered a reaction to her normal food. We were advised to change her diet to an insect protein based diet. We can buy it in the pet shop - Yora. This whole episode dragged on over about 5 - 6 weeks and she lost a lot of weight.

Here we are in February, she is still having bouts of being sick and alternates between runny poo and firm poo, and she really doesn't like the insect food. Its a struggle to get her to eat it The other issue is, even if she does eat it, she shows signs of discomfort (stretching and bowing) if she eats a lot in one go, so I am feeding her little and often throughout the day. And she hasn't put much weight back on.

The Yora costs £5 - £6 a day if she eats the quantity she is supposed to - but she is still sick and has intermittent runny poo.

The food she was on before (a hypoallergenic one) costs £1 - £2 a day if she eats the quantity she is supposed to.

Having now had 4 months of daily stress around whether or not the dog is going to eat, whether to cave in and give her something else, or stick to the Yora even though she doesn't really like it, having to plan my day around feeding the dog little and often, etc., I am feeling a bit strung out about the whole situation. and possibly not thinking straight.

I could go back to the vet, but the vet said last time that the next step would be a £1200 ultrasound to check for obstructions or other issues. I don't think its an obstruction but am wondering if its something a bit more serious.

But even if I had the ultrasound and they found a cancer or something else, I am not sure I would necessarily put her through a major operation, and being a French Bulldog it comes with its own risks anyway. We put a younger cat through cancer treatment and it was obviously quite traumatic for the cat and was ultimately unsuccessful. So i am not sure I want to repeat that experience.

So, my dilemma is - do I just say "Sod it" and revert to giving her the food she likes and will eat, and hopefully put some weight back on, and see how she is in a month or two - and consign the insects to the cupboard.

Or do I take the bull by horns, go back to the vet and pay £1200 for an ultrasound to either be told there is nothing to see, its all just her usual tummy issues, or there is something - but then not necessarily do anything about it.

We do have insurance, and cost is not the driving factor., but paying £4 a day extra for food she often refuses and ends up wasted, and then I open the other stuff anyway, does have an impact on our monthly budget.

This issue has dominated my life for about 4 months now and I think I need a bit of perspective from others.

What is she actually allergic to?

Usually, its pollen and other environmental issues. She is generally OK for most of the year, but September/October are the worst months of year usually and we have stuff at home to bath her with and also some antihistimine tablets to relieve the itching. But she had a very bad reaction to something last October and the vet said it had triggered an allergic reaction to the normal sources of protein (chicken etc.) hence she had to swap over to an insect protein diet.

Have you tried a hydrolysed diet? It's perfect for dogs with protein allergies.

Cytopoint injection to start with.

then elimination diet.

I went to a specialist vet as nornal
vets are crap with these issues - as yours sounds to be

where we’ve eventually landed is monthly cytopoint injections and he’s on ziwipeak

my current worst nightmare is happening is ziwipeaks is out of stock and will be for months and I’ve almost run out

tried him on a new food yesterday and it was poonami all day. Not sure what I’m going to do

i would def have the ultrasound - especially as you’ve got insurance just in case

If you wouldn't be looking to treat any of the potential issues that the ultrasound might diagnose, i wouldn't bother. I had the same dilemma with an elderly cat and decided there was no point doing tests when i wouldn't put her through the gruelling treatment. She doesn't sound like very happy dog. Being honest, how's her quality of life?

This adds to the dilemma. She seems to be very happy, especially when she isn't being force fed insects!

She seems to enjoy her walks every day, always seems keen to go. She doesn't like rain, so if I try to take her out when its raining, then she will do a cartoon-like refusal half way down the front path and will drag me back to the front door, so she isn't coming on a walk because its something she "has" to do. She is very capable of refusing. She is genuinely happy to go. And I tend to let her decide where we go, what direction to turn etc., and most days she is quite decisive about which way we are going.

We have a reasonable sized garden and I try to leave the door open as much as possible and she potters in and out. Today she was lying in a sunny spot for a bit.

She isn't interested in playing, as such, but never has been. Squeaky toys, balls etc, not interested. But if I get the soft broom out we have quite a game with it, she likes to chase it and leap on it.

She is interested in food (when it isn't insects) and loves a bit of my banana or pear (very small pieces), as well as other dog treats during the day (all insect based, even the dental sticks are insect based). She isn't "not eating" she is just "not eating what the vet said she should"

If the door goes, she runs to see who it is. If one of us goes out she usually runs to greet us when we get back.

She sleeps a lot during the day - Frenchies do sleep a lot, and generally she is sleeping all curled up. I know when her tummy is painful as she won't curl up, she prefers to be straight.

So I would say she is generally a happy dog, interested in her surroundings and takes notice of what goes on. She is currently hoovering the kitchen floor with her nose, sniffing out crumbs.

I think I might have tried this. Is it quite lightweight, a bit like the polystyrene packaging strips?

What food was she on before in particular?

It sounds like the quality of life is still there then so worth persevering. Have you ever tried raw food? I haven't personally, but i think I'd look at it as an option - dogs evolved to eat meat not insects.

I'm not sure about the texture @Createausername1970 sorry! I just know it works really well for a clients' dog who has awful allergies and dietary issues.

She was two when she came to live with us and was on wet Pedigree Chum, but her vet history was one of constant digestive issues. So we changed her onto Royal Canine for French Bulldogs (dry). And she was on that quite happily for a number of years, but with occasional episodes of D&V, but nothing overly worrying. A bit of rice and peas for a day or two and she was back to normal.

Then about 3 years ago she had a big digestive upset, the vet said it was IBD and we swapped to Tribal which is a cold pressed fresh meat, but in kibble form. But she took to Tribal straight away, there was no faffing, and she has been happy on Tribal - with the odd bout of D&V.

However, I feel should point out that she is a scavenger and Fox Poo is a particular favourite. So a lot of her digestive upset is due to eating shit!

Since she was so poorly in October, she now has a definite preference for wet. She will eat dry if its mixed into wet. But she is happy to eat dry treats, so I don't think its her teeth, and the vet checked her mouth and couldn't see anything.

She is currently on wet Yora (insects) with the dry Yora kibble mixed in. Or if she is refusing this, I am giving her either Sainsburys' own brand hypoallergenic (which has always been a cupboard standby as I know she likes it) or Pets Corner's own brand (Symply?) also wet.

Do you mean the texture of the Yora? Its gross isn't it.

I think this is why I often get refusal later in the day. Once the box is open and the air gets to it, it changes to quite a heavy consistency. I have tried putting it in a bag in the fridge - but that wasn't successful as I was giving it so often it was in and out of the fridge, and I didn't like giving her cold food in case that upset her tummy. I have tried just putting it in bag on the side, selotaping it shut again between feeds, but what every I do its not successful, it gets heavier the longer its open.

My French bulldog (4) had terrible inflammation of her ears and was constantly scratching/rubbing. Tried a few different foods. Some she would point black refuse for days. Vets recommended no chicken in her diet and Apoquel for the allergy symptoms. Didn't really make a difference.

We eventually changed her food to pets at home AVA sensitive stomach and skin- it's dry kibble which I just add a little bit of warm water to as she doesn't like it dry. That coupled with an antihistamine a day has cleared it all up.

What colour is your Frenchie? If she has blue in her it's notorious for causing allergy problems.

No blue, nothing fancy. She is white/faun with bits of black.

Blue can cause hearing issues as well, I think.

They are a lovely dogs generally, she is the most placid, good tempered dog you could wish for, but they have so many health issues. We have been lucky with her, it's mainly centred around digestive upsets. But I know other Frenchie owners who have had issues with breathing, knee joints, hip joints, slipped discs.

@Createausername1970
Is there a reason you took her off the cold pressed stuff if she was doing well on it? Was she still having allergy problems on it that you think could be food related or was it the October episode? Also, has her skin allergy problem cleared up at all on the Yora? Sorry for all of the questions, I've also had a dog with horrible allergies and I know what a pain it can be for the poor little things so just trying to get an idea of your dog.

When you say "Last October she had a very bad reaction to something, her itching and soreness erupted overnight and was accompanied by V&D. " I'm just wondering how bad it was, ie blood in the stool or retching even when there was nothing in her stomach, or if it was vomiting up her food and very loose stools.

If I was you I would feed her the food she likes (and probably Tribal, it seems like a good food from what I read) to get her weight back up, and if the food she enjoys doesn't significantly increase her skin allergies and she already has a poorly tummy on Yora I don't see what harm could be done. If she's eating Sainsbury's food too then she won't be getting the full benefit of the Yora possibly fixing her allergies, so if you've seen no repeats of the October episode when she's also having Sainsbury's food I'd think it was safe to feed her what she likes.

Some dogs just have terrible tummies, frenchies are quite bad for this. If she's had digestive issues since you got her I doubt it would be an obstruction, anaesthetic can be hard on a dog her age and even moreso if there is something found and she has to recover from abdominal surgery. You could give pureed pumpkin a try to firm up her poos aswelI. don't like to recommend raw feeding to a dog having troubles but that was how I got ontop of my dog's allergies. They still flare up in the summer when it's pollen season but she used to chew her feet raw from them, for some dogs the simpler a protein source is the less strain is on their digestive system, but I wouldn't try that until you get some weight on her and if you tried this, use a less common source of protein like duck or rabbit or game meat, chicken and beef allergies are becoming alarmingly common in dogs.

Sorry for waffling, it's late and hard to condense dog allergy problems! Hope your pup starts feeling better

I’d say try raw feeding and get an air purifier.

The reason I took her off Tribal was the vet told me to move her to Yora. As it's an insect based diet, she wouldn't have any resistance to it as she has not had that protein source previously, so gastrointestinal issues wouldn't be exacerbated by something she had developed a resistance to.

Also, as a side point, the Tribal was dry and she has developed a preference for wet. But, I have since realised Tribal do a wet version.

October started as the usual sore paws which I was dealing with, but within a day or so the itching and chewing was beyond normal for her, and then she stated vomiting about 30 mins after she ate, it was partially digested food, but it had a yellow oilyness going through it. The poo very quicky became bright yellow liquid. There was never, as far as I am aware, any blood.

She isn't itching at the moment, but historically she wouldn't be this time of the year. If it rains a lot then she might get sore paws from wet grass/mud, but a paddle in the bath and some Hibiscrub usually sorts it out. May/June and September/October are her worst months.

Right now she is vomiting two or three times a week. But I believe some of this is my fault for over feeding her - I want her to put weight back on, so I give her a bit more, then a bit more. An hour or so later she starts stretching and bowing and then throws up. So I assume it was too much in her tummy. Her poo is a range between quite runny to quite firm - but historically that is normal for her and it's shades of brown, not yellow.

What exactly is a raw diet? I have heard it mentioned a lot, and have tried to Google more information, but either I am dense, or I am looking in the wrong places. Is it literally cooking everything from scratch? I could do this, but how do I get the right balance of nutrients?

We feed raw after our older girl developed awful allergies. I buy a complete frozen raw food. No chicken or beef. You don’t cook it. It’s fed raw.
We saw a dermatologist. The gold standard is an exclusion diet. Feed a new protein. And only that. See if the symptoms improve after a period (something like a couple of months? Can’t remember.)

Has she been checked for liver or gallbladder issues? The yellow colour and pain after eating almost sounds like gallstones.

I’d be getting a second opinion from a different vet before doing an expensive ultrasound.

That's why she is on Yora, it's a new protein source. Such a good plan...... If only she liked it!

I will investigate raw a bit more thoroughly. But I won't introduce that right now. I think half the problem at the moment is I am feeding her inconsistently. I think I might be better to stick to one thing for a few weeks. If she is eating happily then I feel less stressed about it and a bit more rational. I guess a few weeks on a less than perfect diet isn't going to kill her off, while I calm down and have a think about the longer term.

It doesn’t have to be raw. But if she really doesn’t like this food and it’s not solving the issue then I wouldn’t keep her on it.

That was my concern and also possibly the vet, although she didn't specifically say so, and is maybe why she said an ultrasound next.

But there has not been a repeat of anything yellow at either end since those couple of weeks in October. And the stretching and bowing isn't consistent either.

This is what I am coming round to thinking.

She ate it quite happily to start with, so I was surprised when she started to refuse it. My initial assumption was that she was off her food as she wasn't feeling well. But I realised fairly quickly that she was hungry and wanted food, but she wasn't going to eat the Yora.

Well I am back to the drawing board.

I may have to get the Yora back out of the cupboard as she has been sick 4 times today and poo'd under the dining room table, and it was as runny as the sick.

She has had Sainsbury's Hypoallergenic yesterday and today, so it would appear too rich for her. Its OK in small doses, but obviously not as the main offering.

My bad.

It will be rice tomorrow and in the meantime I will have to have a think how I can make the yora more appealing. Maybe I could try softening the kibble - soaking it in boiling water and leaving it to cool rather than using wet, or mixing it into the wet, or adding water to the wet to make it wetter!

Oh bloody hell.

Dogs! Love them dearly but they do cause us stress at times.

Are you making sure you let her tummy ‘rest’ between food changes with some plain chicken and rice diet?
I’d also get some Pro-Kolin to settle her tummy.
I understand the relucatace to go raw, my frenchie was fine with her puppy food until one day she jist wasn’t. Lots of people recommend raw for them anyway and since my cats were raw feed anyway I just changed the dog to that, too.
Pro-Kolin is a staple item in my house thiugh, just in case.