Puppy seeking

[lazylittlelucy]

We are looking for a new puppy to join our family for the 1st time.

I have read lots of warnings not to use random websites which may be unethical puppy farms but am otherwise unsure of how to find a reputable breeder near where we live i.e. North West

Does anyone have any advice on where we could start the search or can recommend? Ideally we would like a Cavapoo but am open to other suggestions,

TIA

For a cavapoo sorry can’t help. If it were one of the established breeds I’d advise what I always do, get the contact numbers for the relevant breed clubs from the Kennel Club website, ring the club secretary & ask them for any members with puppies due. That way you get into the grapevine of the relevant breed & usually get passed along to someone known to have puppies or some due or planned. That way you avoid ending up unknowingly with a puppy farm. Club members are usually exhibitors and other people who have the breed’s welfare at heart.

Do you know anyone who has a cavapoo you like? We looked & screen loads of ads on Pets4Homes, & then I guess it's a case of visiting them in person, seeing the vibe & the puppies, asking lots of questions etc. You could also ask to speak to other previous puppy owners they've sold to? If they have a good reputation they will not mind doing this!
Good luck x

There are no 'ethical' breeders of cavapoos, along with other poodle crosses they are a puppy farmer's wet dream.

Many, but not all, licensed breeders are still puppy farms, just with cleaner, more modern facilities than the stinking, dilapidated cow shed hellholes featured on TV shows like Panorama.

A decent breeder of toy or miniature poodles, who health tests, breeds from healthy, well tempered dogs, is easier to find.

Champdogs & the breed clubs are the best places to start, but good breeders usually have waiting lists as they don't breed 'on demand'.

Dogs home?

If you see someone with a cavapoo, why don’t you go up and ask them?

It’s so hard isn’t it. When we were looking for a puppy all the advice was to somehow know about amazing breeders through the grapevine of dog breeding and kennel clubs, of which we had absolutely no experience or contacts in!

We ended up going through pets 4 homes websites and just trying to suss out a good breeder based on information given and visits etc. But you must go in with your critical hat on and be prepared to walk away if anything seems dodgy rather than fall in love with the cute puppy. Also there were SO many scams when we looked, fake puppies being sold because children had allergies etc. It is a minefield.

Asking someone that you see in a park with a nice cavapoo where they got theirs isn’t a bad idea! I always share where we got our dog.

Champdogs website. You can narrow your search to breed, area and check the parents have had all necessary health screening and DNA testing. It's well worth some time. I narrowed my search to three breeders, one never replied, one wasn't having a litter for almost a year and the last one was having a litter. We joined the waiting list and it was eight months from then to bringing puppy home.

Sorry, thought you were after a breed. Champdogs won't be any help to you.

It’s so hard isn’t it. When we were looking for a puppy all the advice was to somehow know about amazing breeders through the grapevine of dog breeding and kennel clubs, of which we had absolutely no experience or contacts in!

This isn’t a criticism of you but just for information as you said you had no contacts in clubs or breeders. It really isn’t difficult, all the breed clubs are listed online with contact numbers, lots of the less rare breeds have more than one club often a National one & several regional ones. The secretaries are more than happy to help anyone who is interested in their breed & will provide contacts. Then you just get passed on from member to member, just a matter of phone calls, till you find what you’re looking for. I’ve bred & shown one of the At Risk breeds for ages & have never ever advertised in over fifty years, just word of mouth recommendations.

Cavapoo isn't a breed and is one of the crosses favoured by puppy farmers so good luck!

TBH I'd avoid any puppy with cavalier in it: while they are a wonderful companion breed, they are riddled with health issues which are not do not necessarily disappear in an out-crossed litter. Things like syringomyelia and mitral valve disease are not simply due to a single recessive gene, the impact of which can be dodged by outcrossing to an unaffected breed.

As others have said, a lot of 'poo' breeders are puppy farmers - probably most 'poo' puppies come from dubious beginnings. You have to be very, very careful to avoid them, especially if you go via websites like Pets4Homes. You can get decent puppies from caring breeders from such places, but you have to do a lot of due diligence.

Pure bred dogs have their own issues to look out for though, inbreeding being a key one. When we were hunting for a puppy some years ago, I rejected several litters as their co-efficients of inbreeding made my eyes water. You can work out COI on the KC website (or you could, they revamped it a while ago) if you know the registered names of the parents, and that is something I'd always do. There needs to be a bloody clinching reason to have one higher than 5%.

We got our amazing cavapoo from a breeder in derby. He's a home breeder with a few dogs and I think generally has a litter or two a year. I was in contact with him for about 6 months before we got ours and contacted several other families who also have his pups. Pups are raised in a busy family home and you are welcome to visit. Pup was also supplied with extensive health tests. In our case dad was a KC registered poodle and we got his paperwork too. Pic of our lad because I love him.

Did you mean you saw the parents' health test results?

As puppies aren't 'supplied with extensive health tests'.

Yes sorry. Badly worded. We have a copy of the health tests for both parents. Our pup had no health tests

Ask your local vets?

Pets4Homes has some safety features and so long as you know the red flags for a puppy farmer (you can look on their history to see if they are selling a lot of fashionable breeds in a short space of time, which is a start) and are fully prepared to walk away from a cute puppy which you feel you should rescue (alert RSPCA if you think you've found a puppy farm) it isn't necessarily bad

There needs to be a bloody clinching reason to have one higher than 5%

The COI is accumulative, so not always accurate when working out relationships.

UK dog breeding is is also very restricted in some breeds - meaning a smaller gene pool. Again, a simple numbers game especially for less popular breeds. The KC always advertisees the breed average.

Breeders don't always fork out the 1000's it requires to import a stud dog. Then the next hurdle is their willingness to stud this dog out or let others breed from dogs they have produced...

I can see why people are moving to X breeding.
It's a fashion, yes, but it came from somewhere and breeders of KC recognised dogs have a role to play.

Especially if you look at the avoidable health issues in some breeds.
And they are not all physical features, as there are short lifespans, aggression, cancer and much more that is recognised in some lines - yet people still breed them for the next crufts best in show winner.

If people believe that they can avoid all of that by buying a X, then they will....

I also own a lovely PooX & a pedigree dog from a top breeder. But my pedigree has had more vet visits than the PooX. He developed a condition that is well known within the breed. It's easily managed and doesn't bother him, nevertheless it's an annoying inconvenience if I want play it down.

Have you looked at your local rescue centres ? I’m looking for a rescue dog and I’ve come across a couple with litters of puppies. ( where the mother has come in pregnant ). One litter were spaniel types. Not local to you sadly but worth a look.

If you wanted a working type cocker we could help.
A cross breed wouldn't come with as good a background as a pedigree from a licensed and registered breeder. That's because to raise crosses you don't need paperwork because nobody expects paperwork.
Cross breeds are mongrels.
Better to seek a proper dog from an established breeder who knows what they're doing and can prove paperwork etc

Although to be fair there are some KC breeders who know how to falsify paperwork. Nothing is infallible.

Our local rescue buys pregnant bitches and puppies from the local travellers sites, and are not averse to breeding puppies from rescued bitches to sell. They come up with clever sob stories on their website to con people into buying their so called rescue animals. It's disgusting.

Pets4Homes at one point were suspending the accounts of puppy farmers, but when Lucy's Law came into effect they decided to let them all back on.

And you can only see the litters they have on the ground at that time.

I don't rate P4H very highly in the list of places to buy puppies.

Unfortunately there are as many dodgy rescues as dodgy breeders these days.

I put as much work into checking out a rescue's credentials as I do a breeder's.

If it's the rescue I'm thinking of, they have a very large & loyal following of enablers/financers & a veritable bottomless pit of money to throw at any skeletons that pop out of the closet.

A Wcs isn't the best for first time owners. They need a job to do otherwise can become destructive and you only have to look at the number in rescues for SA and RG.
IMO no working breed is suitable for first time owners.

I have a poodle mix.

I know they are frowned upon, didn't realise quite how much until after I'd got one.

Anyway, he came from a breeder who has been breeding for years, supplies heath tests for both parents, organises yearly met ups of the dogs, and keeps owners of their pups in touch with each other if they wish.

It is possible to get a poodle mix from healthy, loved, well balanced parents, who have experienced a happy and calm environment before they go to their new homes.

I would broadly agree, unless you get the least-drivey one of a mid-drive litter, or an older one that hasn't made the grade so you can see what it's like, or are prepared to go up the very steep learning curve. You can do it, but it's hard work.

There are so many stories of over-wrought working-line spaniels on here with owners at their wits end that you'd be advised to proceed with caution.

Does anyone have any advice on where we could start the search or can recommend? Ideally we would like a Cavapoo but am open to other suggestions,

TBH OP (and I mean this VERY gently) if you want a Cavapoo but you're 'open to other suggestions' then I don't think you've done anywhere near enough research. You say you're mindful about not using a dodgy breeder. Good. But with mongrels you cannot be sure that they aren't coming from a dodgy breeder. Word of mouth means bugger all - backyard breeders are smart. They play on your emotions of 'oh isn't it a cute puppy, I can't leave it here'. They hide what they are and, unless you know what to look for, it can be hard to tell the ones who are just a bit shit to the ones who are downright cruel.

You need to have a think about:

What size house you have
What size garden you have
How much attention you can give a dog (puppies need constant supervision for months and month). So, realistically, if you're gonna bugger off out all day or be away for large parts of the day you shouldn't get a dog (it's going to make training it hard and just be cruel IMO)
How much you can exercise it (a cavapoo is part cavalier and part poodle, so despite being small will likely still need a lot of exercise and mental stimulation - they are SMART dogs)
How long you're willing to commit for - some dogs only live 8 years (St. Bernard), some live 13+ (Collies/Cattle Dogs)
How much effort you're willing to put into training. Do you want a dog that will quickly learn commands BUT will require far more mental stimulation? Or do you want a thick twit?
How much you can afford to spend on upkeep (my retriever costs me £250 a month to feed + £40 insurance + £60 grooming + probably £50/60 on toys [he likes pulling out the toys innards cos he's a little thug] + other misc costs).
Will you have children/if you already dog what age they are? Are they old enough to understand about giving a dog space etc?
Is now the right time to actually get a dog?

You need to research potential health complications (i.e Spaniels can get serious eye problems, ear problems, patella problems, they can be aggressive. Goldens have a high chance of getting cancer, can also have significant problems with joints etc) and consider whether you are prepared to take that risk.

Ultimately, I would go with a KC pedigree from an Assured Breeder because they offer lifetime support and commitment. You (should) sign a contract that lays out what to expect and they will run tests so you know your puppy is as healthy as can be. Most mongrel breeders don't do that IME.

Finally, and, most importantly: WHY do you want a dog?

A dog is a huge commitment. Every breed is different and comes with different issues/commitments/rewards and if you are not fully fixed on a particular breed but are open to random suggestions...I'm not sure you've really thought this through.