Pets4Homes full of XL bully puppies

[Tygertiger]

Even after the ban was announced, there have been so many Xl bully litters posted. Who on earth is going to pay £800+ for a pup that will need to be muzzled its whole life and they’ll need an exemption certificate for? Or is this just evidence that people will ignore the ban as they think it won’t be enforceable due to these dogs not actually being a proper breed?

Those poor puppies. I agree with the ban but it’s still a very sad situation as presumably so many of them will now be euthanised at a very young age.

I was wondering this too. But I think someone said on here they could end up really sought after as the last legal generation

It’s so sad, poor things.

Yes and I have noticed before that there’s always a huge amount of them advertised on that website under normal circumstances.

This is exactly the reason these bans don't work. The breeders are the issue. There is an element of the 'type' of person that chooses to have such a dog, however if breeding was more tightly controlled, along with how they can be purchased (I.e. not able to sell on Facebook/ gumtree etc) it would be more effective.

It always amazes me how anyone can pay as little as £800 and think they're getting a properly bred dog. Most pedigree breeders charge a lot more and probably don't recoup their costs even then. Then again, XL Bully isn't a breed so my own argument is moot I suppose.

They'll just come up with some other frankenstein, so the whole process will start over.

I agree that these sites should be banned. But I don’t know what would happen to accidental litters of puppies. Either you have a rule which says people can only buy from a registered breeder with paperwork to prove they have met basic standards etc - in which case presumably all puppies resulting from other matings would have to be euthanised or forcibly handed over to rescues, which are overflowing as it stands now - or you allow puppies to be sold any old way, but insist on basics such as microchipping. But that therefore allows puppy farms to operate as well as uncontrolled, irresponsible breeding. I don’t know what the answer is.

The bans do work. The DDA works. So far as death and injury from dogs keeps happening it’s because the DDA, and other dog control legislation, doesn’t go far enough.

Agree with you that the bans do work and can save lives

I have actually seen huge numbers of adults in rescue and rescues saying they can’t accept any more as they won’t be legally able to rehome them once the ban comes in.

At least two have been abandoned in woodland near here in the last week, which is worrying for dog walkers.

You should need a licence to own a dog, something like a driving licence with an actual test.

The basic licence would allow you to own a dog of a certain kind and under a certain size.

I know a chihuahua or a corgi can bite but they are not likely to kill you.

I noticed this yesterday, I had a quick look as I was curious and there were a lot of adverts

But how would this be enforced? With what resource?

At least two have been abandoned in woodland near here in the last week, which is worrying for dog walkers.

That's interesting...I started a thread while back saying I thought this may happen and was called all sorts of names.

The bans don’t work.

Either people will be desperately trying to get rid of them and either abandon them or give them to idiots.

Or these dogs are going to be even more sought out because they’re now a ‘cool’ banned breed.

Walking down the street with an XL bully wasn’t that big of a deal before because so many people had them.

Now they’re going to think they’re the dogs bollacks walking around with them and I think the government has created a bigger problem.

I understand the government and I am glad they are taking it seriously but I think they’ve unintentionally created a bigger status dog than it was before.

I'm convinced there was a MLM angle to the breeding of xl bullies. Puppies being bought predominately as an investment, owners convinced a certain bloodline (that 90% of the puppies seem to have...) will earn them £££££. I met a man some months ago with an xl bully puppy who was telling me that he could eventually stud it out for many thousands a go, and was going to get a second (a bitch no doubt...). I think for some sellers all they want is a return on that expensive investment, but it doesn't mean there are loads of buyers lined up.

What exactly do you expect people to do with litters they already have/are expecting soon, if not sell for cheap to move them on ASAP? It’s not like the breeders would have allowed for sustaining litters of puppies after the 8-12 week mark, or were you hoping they tie them in a hessian sack with a brick and drown them in a river? Pets4homes is exactly the place for these puppies to be advertised, considering there’s no kennel club registered breeders list for “mutant pit bulls of varying height”. Of those “800” adverts, how many do you think are months old and fully sold litters? How many are adult dogs posted in for sale instead of for adoption because the delusional people who bought them still believe they’re worth the ££££s they paid? Considering pets4homes also doesn’t separate the toad bully things from the standards and XLs, not all of these will be adverts for dogs covered by the ban anyway.

There was a documentary on the breeding of these dogs. I can't remember who by, I think it might have been Panorama.

A lot of them were sold/rented as a kind of timeshare deal. A buyer/investor would pay a nominal fee for a puppy they believed to be worth tens of thousands of pounds but the breeder retained ownership.

The investor housed, cared for, and paid to look after the puppy. Once old enough the original breeder would arrange a stud to breed the pup and the puppy's caretaker would receive a percentage of the profits from the litter. All of the expenses/vet fees etc fell on the caretaker, not the breeder but the breeder kept the majority of the profits. It was the ultimate con. I very much doubt any of these dogs would ever have sold for the prices they were purported to be worth.

I think legislation should be extended to selling sites. Would be much easier to slap a fine on a business like Pets4Homes for not regulating their boards than on random breeders. They would have proper ID checks for sellers and animals sold. Perhaps a system set up through local vets to certify that the mother has been checked out and that this a reputable breeder. Costs paid for by the person listing the pets. That would put off those who were looking to make a fast fortune.

I’d also require online pet sales on specific sites only- no Facebook/ Gumtree etc.

I’m not talking about adult dogs. I’m specifically talking about puppies, and I am talking about litters being described as XLs. Going from the ads, they are young puppies. And you can see the date they were posted on P4H. Loads of litters of young puppies added in the last 12 hours, and prices starting around the £800 mark and often much more. Look for yourself.

A dog is pregnant for 9 weeks. Some of these pups are currently 6-7 weeks old, and being posted to attract interest now before they can leave home at 8 weeks. Of course I don’t want puppies drowned in sacks. But puppies which are now 7 weeks old were conceived in the week the idea of the ban was announced, and realistically we knew it was coming a few weeks before that which covers puppies now 8-12 weeks too. Responsible owners would have put a hold on breeding until they knew what was happening, not churned out more litters.

I completely agree.

I don’t think anyone should be able to just go and get a living thing for free or cheap off gumtree.

So many animals are neglected and abused.
And it’s because they’re so easy to get/get rid of.

My brother bought a staffy off a friend a few years ago, for a packet of fags.
She was only 2 but had had at least 6 owners and at least 3 litters of puppies.
She is such an angel but if she was aggressive I wouldn’t blame her, but many people would.

I think it would take a while to enforce it properly but they should ban all breeding, unless you have applied for and been successful at getting a breeding license.
These breeders should get regular checks.

Then when these puppies are advertised you’ll be able to check if they come from a licensed breeder or not and if someone is found to have bred without a license then it should come with a jail sentence.

Any puppies accidentally born should be given to rescue centres to rehome.

Any new dog bought should then be required to have a licence and these details put on the microchip.

Eventually, it should result in a lot less puppies being born, way less digs being advertised, a lot less dogs abandoned/in rescue homes and a lot less neglected animals.

Have they got plans to sterilise this breed of dog?

I think the MLM scheme is done with other breeds too.

My friend bought a lab off someone and he asked to breed from her when the dog reached a certain age.
Apparently it’s ok to breed with the grandparent of the puppy.

She had multiple litters from the same father but he also studded the grandad out to breed with the other dogs from the same litter.
At one time there were 5 sister labs pregnant by the same dad, all within 20 miles of each other.

My ‘friend’ then did the same with the owners who bought the new puppies from her.

It’s like a proper pyramid scheme thing going on.

These dogs aren’t pets.
They were bought solely to make money and they will be gotten rid of as soon as they’ve stopped making money.

I can’t see the ban making any noticeable difference in the near future really. Yes it will make it harder to sell/buy/rehome the dogs going forward but it’s going to do very little about those already owned now. Yes they technically need to be registered but there simply isn’t the resource to police that, it will rely largely on responsible owners doing the right thing and registering them, having them muzzled, on lead etc (these are going to be the owners who have raised lovely dogs anyway so weren’t the issue) and then for the rest of the dogs it will rely on people reporting others who have them but are not complying with the rules and realistically how many people will do that? You may spot one on a walk without a muzzle and you can report that to police but without you following them home to provide their address there’s nothing really going to come of that.

For example where we live there are lots of XL Bully’s, our local “doggy daycare” even does breed specific play sessions for them, there’s loads live around us and go to our local park etc, we may have just been very lucky but we’ve never had a bad experience with any of them they are all really friendly, we have a Labrador who often plays with them in the park, at the beach etc. I am sure these are all the owners who will end up registering, muzzling etc anyway as they are responsible and have raised their dogs well, but if come January any of the locals here saw these dogs that we know of without a muzzle, I don’t honestly think that anyone would report them. At that point you’re relying on the police and I don’t know about everywhere else but there was a break in on our street a few weeks ago and police attended over an hour later. They are stretched as it is, there’s no capacity to police every dog.

These puppies being sold now weren’t conceived yesterday, they have been born through no fault of their own, what do you expect to be done with them if not sold to new homes?

One of the legal requirements is that they have to be neutered yes x

Thanks, glad to hear it!

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there. And that is relatively good news as soon as pups become unsaleable and unprofitable and supply overwhelms demand and they are illegal people will instantly stop breeding them.
so bans do work