Dog breeders...

[wheresmymojo]

I have a beautiful dog...she's a mutt but beautiful, healthy and a brilliant personality.

I'd like her to have one litter of puppies as we'd like to keep one and they'd make lovely family pets.

We'd choose the mating partner very carefully although we wouldn't be concerned about them being a registered pedigree or their 'breeding line' as long as there was evidence of them being a healthy, well rounded pet.

We both work from home and would raise the puppies in the best possible way - a home environment, they'd be raised with cats and lots of socialisation.

We'd vet any prospective buyers to the same degree that any pedigree breeder would and will offer the same guarantee to take the puppies back if they ever need to be re-homed for any reason.

I'm not a fan of pedigree KC breeding because I feel it's done a lot of damage to dogs.

IMO a well rounded, healthy 'mutt' (GSD cross) is a much more positive thing than yet another slope backed GSD.

I've always had rescue animals but they aren't always the right fit for everyone.

I've been thinking about it and don't really understand why people are okay with pedigree breeders but not with family pets having a litter?

Can anyone explain why?

Surely in our kind of circumstances it's better for a family pet to have one healthy, loved, well socialised litter than the many pedigree 'KC registered' breeders who continue unhealthy breeding standards?

What health tests will you do on your dog?
What health tests will you insist the mating dog has?
Have you any experience of ENS and bringing up puppies?
Are you aware of the stages and impact of stress to a pregnant bitch and the importance of the correct environment at week 5?
Are you aware of the death rates in breeding bitches?
Are you able to trace back the line of your dogs by 5 generations to check for health and temperament issues?

Many people arent ok with pedigree breeders but home breeders with no experience is not the answer

Buckle up .

What breeds do you think your dog is mixed with?

🙄

You will need genetic testing of any of the breeds in your dog. You will also need hip scores done if larger than a cocker spaniel and preferably patellar assessment done too but that is more rare.

We bought our dog from a good KC breeder who fully health tests and raises the puppies in a family home, with other dogs and animals and socialises them and exposes them to everything they need at the right time. We have multiple generations of history and were shown how other pups from a previous litter were doing and what temperament they had developed. Having seen the effort and cost that goes into one litter I am not sure why anyone sane would choose to do it.

I bought a couple of mutts, probably jack Russells, I didn’t care. They were lovely dogs and had long healthy lives.

I would take another mutt over a pedigree because KC is so stuffy and these dogs have much bigger issues than mutts! Dysplasia, breathing issues, volvulus and arthritis to name a few! They breed for characteristics that they think people want, but no consideration of how the dog will be at 10 years old!

Oh dear, this isn’t going to go well.
For what it’s worth I did breed from my family pet. She is a pure bred rare native breed, one of the breeds that relies on families breeding from pets to keep the breed alive.
it was a fantastic experience for us but in hindsight I think we were very lucky. She made an excellent mum but having a litter of 7 puppies in the sitting room is hard work! Especially when it’s raining and they are refusing to go outside to pee 🫣. I am still in touch with all the pups, it was their birthday last weekend and they have all grown into beautiful family pets with amazing homes. We were just very lucky (although I did a shed load of research before hand, experience really taught me how many things have potential to go wrong). I won’t do it again, but I don’t regret it.

Agree with this 👆

Having said that I’ve always known I couldn’t bear to put our (KC registered) girl through mating/pregnancy/birth. It would upset me. Got her spayed early on.

You mentioned health tests have had yours tested too ? Need to have them checked for Temperament tested too. You need to know what your gsd is crossed with before breeding it. The dog you use could be heathly but have a whole line of issues with breeding eg some gsds carry elelpsy. Excuse the spelling which is why you look at the generations. Hip problems you can not always tell just from looking labs actually have worse hip problems than gsds none of them have slopes.

Op I’m not one of those mumsnetters that go apeshit at the mere mention of someone breeding a dog. But this really isn’t the best time to do it. Unwanted dogs are reaching record levels in the uk. If you look at the statistics, unwanted and abandoned dogs have shot up by 25% in the last year alone after people went batshit over lockdown and bought dogs which they can no longer seem to do without having to breed them. The figures are absolutely ridiculous. I’m not one of those people who demand people rescue instead of buying, and I’d buy a mongrel off gumtree any day over buying a pedigree from some kennels, but the arse has completely fallen out of the breeding industry. All of the selling pages are absolutely rammed with litters of puppies at reduced prices as they’re not selling. There’s French bulldogs that we’re selling for 6k going for £300 now. My neighbour bred her cockerpoo, listed the prices as £800 when they were born, now they’re 16 weeks old and up for £250 and she’s only managed to sell one. I know someone on Fb who is desperately trying to offload a litter of staffs that must be around 6 months now. Rescue centres have waiting lists of dogs needing to come in that are running into the thousands. Can’t you just buy another dog rather than breed another litter just because you want to keep one?

Breeding is a tricky issue with no clear solution imo. Having heard that having a litter can permanently change your bitch for the worse, it's not a risk I understand anyone taking with a beloved pet.

KC breed standards have led to the total deformity of many breeds so despite the health tests I think it would be madness to suggest KC breeding is the only acceptable route. Plus I've read KC accredited doesn't equal not a puppy farm. And puppy farms are obviously horrendous. Every third dog I meet is a cockerpoo, the most puppy farmed breed. Some of those beloved pets must have been born to essentially abused parents. Surely dog lovers would want to eradicate the practice?

So home breeding doesn't sound too terrible in comparison. But still, I think it's right that it's not wholly normalised as acceptable, as who's to distinguish the beloved pet from the merely pound signs overbred dog of backyard breeders? Go on petsforhomes and browse the ads — if you care about dogs you'll be deeply depressed after 5 minutes by backyard breeding.

Lastly, is there really a demand for mongrels?? There was the most gorgeous litter of mongrels close to me on all the puppy websites. They were cheap but couldn't be shifted. I think mongrels are fab and have a rescue one myself. I would have thought people happy to have a mongrel probably cross over in most cases with people who get rescue dogs.

Do you have a GSD? And that’s the dog you’re wanting to breed. That is one of the few breeds as a pet owner I’d 110% insist on knowing the lineage as I’d want to ensure I was buying a stable dog. Not just taking someone’s word for it.

Will you insist on health testing the stud dog and indeed your own dog? KC has mandatory testing for breeds, and regardless if you are crossing or not that is the absolute rock bottom bare minimum and if you aren’t willing to do that you shouldn’t be breeding

I was also once told if you aren’t willing to risk losing your bitch, don’t have a litter from her… something to think about

Breeding your dog could kill her. Whole litters of crossbreeds (and even some purebreds) are ending up being handed over to overflowing rescues because they can't be sold, the bottom has well and truly fallen out of the puppy market.

Please don’t.

Why? Have you looked at rescues lately? They are full to bursting with dogs and puppies born as a result of greeders taking advantage of lockdown prices. Now they can't get rid of their puppies anymore, they're dumping them. As are all the people who got dogs and forgot that the pandemic wouldn't last forever.

The fact that you're posting shows how little you know about breeding. Please, please don't, there are too many unwanted puppies out there already. Do you know mating can kill your dog? Do you know they can get stuck and need physical and veterinary assistance to separate before they rip each other apart? Do you know there's a split second your beloved dog could die whilst giving birth. If considering all this still doesn't change your mind shame on you.

There are just too many puppies out there. Don't do it.

It’s a bit unkind I know, but I had to laugh at a post someone put on Fb now he can’t get rid of his puppies. He’s an absolute bellend, banged out a few litters of staff pups during lockdown prices, on one of his posts where he’d put up a pic of a new litter he wrote ‘would people stop fucking messaging me how much my puppies are, they’re only a few hours old ffs’. He knew they’d fly out over lockdown whenever he put them up for sale. Then 12 weeks ago he posted this. He’s still trying to sell them btw, they’re 9 months old now and he’s desperate to get rid. Imagine being stuck with this many dogs, he’s learnt a hard lesson there

I'm a bit late to the party.... but here it goes: 🍿

@Fiddlerdragon I've seen quite a lot of posts similar to that - from people who have bred litters with no thought to actually finding them homes or what they'd do if the owners backed out 🙈

Go for it. So long as you're prepared for the very possibilities which any decent breeder should be....

For your dog as it's a GSD cross - hip and elbow scoring, DNA for haemophilia make sure sire is too. There are likely more tests for GSD types which are easy to find out.

C - section

Up to 13 puppies in a breed/type like yours

Death of your bitch and handrearing of puppies

Handrearing of weaker puppies if bitch can't manage/gets mastitis/rejects puppies

Fading puppy syndrome, having to have newborn puppies euthanised

The 'joy' of rearing a litter of puppies (bloody hard work and expensive if done properly).

A list of vetted homes for puppies that doubles the amount of puppies you actually have. People are time wasters and WILL back out even if you 'know' them through your mates neighbour's hairdresser.

Puppies coming back to you when people change their minds or realise they can't cope with the puppy that has now turned into an annoying teenage dog and is now massive.

Just because your dog is a mutt or what ever, doesn't make it immune from issues. It can just as likely suffer from any of the conditions that it's parents/grandparents could have. If it has GSD in it, you need to consider the issues GSDs can suffer from and act accordingly.

Finally, if you're planning on having a litter, you are a dog breeder with all the connotations negative and positive, fantastical and realistic that come with that. Just because you spit and rage at the mere mention of 'KC reg', you're still a dog breeder.

I am aware of the issues with pure-bred dogs, but I would put a lot more faith in the health and temperament of a well bred, obedience-line, GSD than of some random cross bred.

I have a family member who does this. I hate it. The breeding bitch has died on a few occasions (she just gets a new one) so if you love your existing dog, do not risk her life to do this.

I should also add to breed responsibility you HAVE to be able to offer the puppies a lifelong home with you should their owners fail to be able to look after them. Could you afford to have 3/4 extra adult dogs, potentially having developed issues?

That's a very good point. My breeder rang me a year after I'd had my dog to say that if I ever want to give him up, she will take him back.