Merles

[ChangedmynameagainforChristmas]

Please to those people who pay mega bucks for their new merle puppy whether it be a bulldog or a dachshund or any of the popular breeds - be aware that your dog is a mongrel and not a pedigree. This is because at some point in the history there will have been crossbreeding of some sort and a merle is not always a healthy dog. Merles cannot and should not be bred with another merles as this can lead to health problems

I disagree. A lot, yes, but not all.

I got mine from a show breeder. They breed for their own showing purposes, and usually the pups are sold to other showers.

there’d be no point not keeping correct records, as there’s more money in a dog that produces show winners. Start falsifying parentage and your reputation will go down as you need a certain standard of dog, and you need it to breed true.

Conned in what way? How does one even get a puppy if not from a breeder? Surely the very fact someone is breeding a little of pups makes them a breeder?

certainly not all breeders who KC register are reputable or trustworthy. A vast majority of KC registrations are from puppy farmers… but I know plenty of breeders who KC register and not one of them is a ‘crook’ and nor is dog breeding a business for them. It’s virtually impossible to make any money from breeding dogs if you keep a small or smallish number of dogs in your home and spend an absolute fortune every year competing or showing them. Which is the situation of all the KC breeders I know

My godfather bred KC registered dogs for several decades. Every single letter was planned with utmost care with a view to improving the lines and the health of the breed, documented and studied in great detail. Most dog enthusiast breeders are decent, honest people. There are bad apples in every line of business and leisure but don't brand them all as bad 'uns because of the few that are.

Regarding outcrossing - there's a big difference between a planned outcross to address a health issue in the breed, as in the dalmatian example (and the KC should allow more of this in my opinion) and clandestinely outcrossing to introduce a dodgy gene to get an unusual colour so you can flog the puppies for higher prices to the unsuspecting.

*litter

Regarding outcrossing - there's a big difference between a planned outcross to address a health issue in the breed, as in the dalmatian example (and the KC should allow more of this in my opinion) and clandestinely outcrossing to introduce a dodgy gene to get an unusual colour so you can flog the puppies for higher prices to the unsuspecting.

yes I am aware of that. My point was that universally sneering at and assuming that outcrossing/crossbreeding is ‘bad’ is unhelpful.
context is everything

And my original post on this subject still stands. Anyone who buys a dachshund (as example) with all that lovely colouring and pays £KKK is buying an animal that is not a pedigree as it's history will include another breed somewhere down the line.
It is nothing to do with being snobbish about mongrels. They are probably the healthiest of dogs but you can find one at a rescue centre or the RSPCA for a fraction of the cost and know it is a mongrel, not something being passed off as 'special' which translates in breeder language - expensive.
It's another aspect of dishonest practice

Except the Merle gene exists in purebred dachshunds.

so no they aren’t ‘mongrels’

(I see you’ve moved on to suggesting even more extremes than crossbred’ now 😂)

So just to be clear, your definition of a purebred is a breed of dog that contains no genetics from another breed?

could you explain how new breeds are developed then please?

You keep trying to bait me but you will not win. I am talking about people who make lots of money by telling lies. You seem to be overly invested in this thread fur and feathers
Perhaps you are one of them and I have touched a nerve?

Dachshunds aren’t outcrossed to get it though, they’ve always had it...

French bulldogs, poodles, cocker spaniels and I’m sure others - yep, they don’t come in that pattern, the only way to get it is to add in a breed that does, but not dachshunds.

It’s like saying all Weimaraners are crosses and their breeders are lying because someone used them to make lab crosses in that colour and is claiming they’re silver labs.

I have a Merle dog from that KC list, a very old breed that has included occasional Merles all along.
Part of the deal is that you never breed from two Merles together, as a precautionary measure.

However, I have to admit that the few breeders in this country have a remarkably high number of Merles in their litters…
I am not suggesting they are breeding irresponsibly, rather they are probably breeding using more Merles partnered with the more usual coat colours nowadays, as the Merles are popular.
My breeder frequently has guest sires from abroad, for example.

People paying anything at all for a puppy or dog should research a lot first.

You only have to look for 10 minutes on the internet at most to discover the problems associated with merle Dachshunds or other breeds.

Some merles are pure bred. Like this one. He is a nob, but he is a pure-bred nob.

“Will not win”

why will you battle to the death? 😂😂

I asked you a straightforward question - insulting me is obviously just your way of avoiding answering.

why are you so evasive? You said you were here to educate us.

And my original post on this subject still stands. Anyone who buys a dachshund (as example) with all that lovely colouring and pays £KKK is buying an animal that is not a pedigree as it's history will include another breed somewhere down the line.

What are you talking about?

Merle is a natural coat colour in dachshunds - it's got absolutely nothing to do with cross-breeding. Even the Kennel Club recognises it as a natural colour

Tbf I think dachsies and bracycephalic dogs have bigger problems than coat colour or not being “pure” bred.

they’re probably one of the breeds that would be a lot healthier carefully outcrossed to shorten spine length.

Oh absolutely - but that's a separate argument to the whole Merle topic.

Actually my dapple dachs lived to 21 and never had any health issues. His brother also made 20 plus. I like dachs with short backs which sounds counter intuitive but it's the personality that matters more than length. Both my merle collies were robust too although noticeably mentally flakier than black and white dogs.
Nevertheless, it doesn't seem like common sense to be breeding that gene into breeds where it doesn't occur naturally, and especially into breeds that have other health issues like brachycephalia. I do loathe fashion in dog breeds.

It's the unnecessary breeding in of merle to produce "cute" colours that's a problem. Just introducing potential genetic issues for the same of a more sellable puppy 🙄

Loads of cockers are coming in as Merle now. Owners are usually new to the breed and clueless that a) they haven't bought a "pure bred" and b) they actually don't know what issues their cutesy instagrammable puppy might have.

21 is an absolutely amazing age @Bideshi

And that's my biggest issue, the cockers which have merle in mainly come from 1 dog who is owned by convicted puppy farmers. They falsify KC paperwork and dupe stupid people who want a "designer" spaniel. Most of these people aren't competent enough to own a spaniel, let alone one with potential behaviour and health issues 😡

Yes, I used to look after "merle" show cocker - he had a lot of behavioural issues from a young age, sadly. Obviously I can't say for sure that that's a result of his breeding but I suspect it plays a pretty big part in it.

Yep I know enough about dogs to know a spaniel of any kind is far too much energy for me 😂. Wears me out just watching them.

Variation happens naturally and can occur at any time. Gene mutation is how all animals have evolved.

Breeding to encourage a gene mutation that is likely to negatively impact the health of an animal (and by extension the breed) is where things get shady.

Some pedigrees have been bred to have defects as breed standard unfortunately. The German Shepherds sloping hips and Rhodesian Ridgebacks spinal anomaly that makes the hair grow the way it does on the back for example. Very far from perfect and very much supported by KC.

Interesting thread. Thanks for starting it. I think everyone is kind of agreeing with each other tbh.

breeding practices can be shit and disreputable people will breed/dell whatever is popular.

if people can’t comprehend that flat faced dogs might have health problems then the merle problem is probably irrelevant.

what I mean is if you’re the kind of person that has the ££ and wants a Frenchie then the fact it’s merle won’t be off putting. Probably makes it more attractive tbh.