Puppy with poor recall, can I have your advice and reassurance please?

[Hayliebells]

I don't know if I'm stressing out unnecessarily, but I'm really concerned about our puppy's recall. He really isn't very consistent at all, when he gets excited (usually when playing with another dog), he just will not come back when called. He just runs around like a lunatic ignoring us. He's an 8 month old Labrador, and we've done all the recommended puppy training/training classes. This isn't my first rodeo, I've had a Lab before, but unless I've blocked it out, I don't remember my previous Lab being that difficult to train! He loves to run free, I just can't imagine keeping him on a long lead, it's unfair on a dog like him imo. Does anyone have any advice on a plan of action? Or words of reassurance that he'll get better as he gets older? We do try and train off the lead in quiet places where there aren't many people about, sometimes he's quite good, sometimes he's terrible! And he's so bouncy! He jumps up, usually when playing with another dog, and he starts jumping around the owner. He doesn't actually make contact, just bounces around them, whilst ignoring my commands to come back. Everyone he's done it to has assured me it's fine, what with them being dog owners too, but I don't think it is, and it's mortifying! Should we be keeping him on the long lead at all times? We try to train off lead sometimes, in the belief he has to learn eventually, but is that the wrong thing to do? Our dog walker says his recall is good, but maybe he's just following what the other dogs do. I keep seeing adverts for Absolute Dogs Sexier than a Kitten course, is that worth purchasing? Is it likely to have ideas that we haven't yet tried? Should we go back to training classes? We got a Lab because I love them, I've had one before and I thought they were easy to train. Have we likely been doing something wrong? Are there any common mistakes that people make, that we might be making? I really feel like I need a plan of action, I dream of long country walks with a bounding, wet, muddy dog. I see other dogs running through the woods so happy, and I'm quite sad for him that ours is still on a lead, he has so much energy. He's a lovely dog really, so good natured and gentle, with people and other dogs. I just want him to be able to run free!

None of it sounds unusual for an 8 month old lab but yes, you do need to keep him on a long line until he's reliable.

The more he ignores your recall, and learns that he can ignore it and have a jolly good time running around with dogs and up to people then the harder it will be to undo that behaviour.

It's probably worth looking at recall games and also checking if there's any suitable training courses. Our trainer puts on specific recall workshops as well as running more general courses for adolescent dogs.

You need to keep him on the longline until he recall is reliable. It's incredibly hard for those of us with reactive dogs when other offlead dogs come bounding up to us.
I've just spent the afternoon writing an email to the dog warden about a serial offender who has absolutely no control of her new puppy and has no intentions of teaching it. It's now dangerously out of control.
Keep on the long line until the recall is sorted. Get some help from a professional behaviourist if need be. And book secure dog fields for true off lead time.

I think you may have just forgotten the early stages of your other labs life. What you've described is pretty normal for a exuberant puppy :-)
Order yourself a whistle (i'd recommended the 211.5) and the book total recall by pippa mattinson and use this as your bible. You may not think you need to start from the beginning but I definitely would. Best of luck :-)

Thank you for your reply, it's reassuring that this is not unusual. We will keep him on the long lead, We let him off every now and again because other dog owners keep making comments like, "oh you need to try, or he'll never be able to be off lead, my sister's friend has a dog they never let off lead as a puppy, and now they have a three year old that they CAN'T let off lead blah blah blah". But I guess randoms we meet on walks don't necessarily know what they're talking about! I'll also look at specific recall training classes too, that's a good idea.

Take some really tasty treats out with you (small bits of chicken, sausage etc). Get a dog whistle.

Blow the whistle as he comes back to you for a treat (blow it even if he's running towards you). Show him the treat. Make him sit. Give him the treat. Do this lots of times whether or not you need him to come back to you. After a while he should come back as soon as he hears the whistle.

Sorry, I thought only FarFlungFlamingo had replied. Thanks for the book recommendation LBF2020, and we actually have a whistle, but we've just never used it. We got the one the breeder used, I think it's that one. We'll be more mindful of reactive dogs @justgettingthroughtheday , if the best thing for his training is to be on a long lead, that's exactly what we'll do, and I have actually booked some secure field sessions for next week. Is that definitely a good idea though? He could still ignore me in a field on our own! I don't want to do anything that might make it worse.

Thanks @AlmondBake , I'll try that.

At eight months, he's bag in the middle of his teenage years - IMO it's the toughest time for young dogs. Puppyhood is nothing compared to the nightmare of adolescence

However, until he has a reliable recall, he cannot go off the lead. It's not fair on him, other people or on other dogs - and he could find himself getting really badly hurt.

Use a longline attached to his harness, and really, really high value treats that you only ever use when practising recall. Something really smelly is best - we used cocktail sausages, ham or tiny cubes of cheese. Start in the house, and call him to you - everytime he comes, he gets a treat. When that's reliable, move to the garden, then a secure field with no distractions, then somewhere open like the beach etc - slowly add in distractions as you proof the behaviour.

It will get better but you just need to be consistent - I also suspect you've blocked out what your older lab was like a puppy!

@Hayliebells I book a secure field twice a week for mine. One of mine is never off lead in public and probably never will be.
I NEVER try to recall them in the first 10 - 15 minutes of their time in the field. I let them explore and be dogs. We are the only ones in the field there is no reason to recall them.

When I am practicing recall I make sure it's really worth their while. High value treats or toys. Huge praise for coming back and they are released off again. So coming back doesn't equal time to go home.
But I pick my moment so it is virtually always a successful recall. That way they don't learn there is another option than to come back.

When we are in a public space the great value is always high. And the little one is alway on a longline. I let go of the longline and stand on it if I need to stop her.

Good plan @whataboutsecondbreakfast . Our first secure field booking is for next Monday, so I'll spend the next week moving from the house to the garden. Hopefully he'll be ready for the field by then.

@Hayliebells

he's still very young.

high value treats are your friend!

in the house, in the garden, on a long line, off lead in the secure fields. Call/reward/call/reward/call/reward.

in the field take your highest value treats and use them liberally. Once he's pretty good, mix them with lower value treats, then only lower value treats & then not akways a food treat, just a 'good boy' small fuss.

he'll get there!! Good focussed labs are definitely trainable!!

in a secure field you don't need to worry about his recall, he'll come back when he's hungry or lonely! Labs like company & food!!

partly what YOU need to do is EXPECT him to come back to you and give iff confident vibes!!

As he's eight months (and you're not starting from nothing) he should be fine in a secure field. However, speaking from experience, I would keep the longline attached so he doesn't play silly buggers and evade capture when it's time to leave

Another recommendation for Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson, plus high value treats (cocktail sausage and cheese) and a whistle. Our dog was a star at recall until she reached adolescence, we bought the above book and went totally back to basics. Really got her back on track.

I had this with my pup (now 3). He's friendly & if I let him he'd meet and greet everyone with his muddy paws. I got help from a trainer with improving recall. I was taught that the trick is to be the most exciting person around. In addition to high value treats I keep one of these in my pocket.

www.amazon.co.uk/Tug-Nuff-Dog-Gear-Sheepskin/dp/B08RSC5Q51

If I reckon he's getting over excited / heading off to unsuspecting walkers I call and show him this - he heads back like a rocket to have a play. It's only ever used on walks - nowhere else and he loves it. I'm still careful so if he's distracted / there's lots of people / children around he goes back on the lead.

I used Arden grange liver paste for recall it’s yummy and really works well as a v high value treat and only for recall. I’d work on relationship with your dog so you being the high value treat, it’s hard work though

This is all very good and advice, and very reassuring, thanks everyone. I feel much better now I have a plan. I'm sure he is trainable, he's reasonably well trained in the house, we've trained him to only get on the sofa after he's had permission etc. He did absolutely everything the dog trainer asked him to do at the puppy classes, but he does seem a bit like a defiant teenager when out and about now!

The Pet Gundog by Lez Graham is the best dog training book I've read.
Also, very simply, never call him unless you are certain he will come. If not certain, then go and get him.
(You are probably a year away from him turning on a dime while galloping off down the beach to come back to your side. And that's a year of intelligent training, not a year of hit and miss stuff!)
Never ever let him hear you call and get to ignore you.
Also, do not let returning to you signify the end of play; often the best reward for a dog is to be released again.

The whole purpose of a long lead is to use it until recall on command is firmly established. Work out what are very high value treats, (ok, it’s a Lab, so that could be anything & everything) and keep them only for training. Then use the long line, whistle or voice, treats and lots of praise to keep working hard on recall until it clicks.

I used Thrive dried chicken liver treats for recall with my, then, adolescent puppy. I kept them only for recall and they worked wonders.

Only drawback is there is a limit to how many they can have a day because they're quite rich so they have to be used wisely.

Having said that my dog is very small but obviously you could be more generous with them for your lab.

And yes, keep him on the long line until his recall is reliable.

Whoever told you that using a long line will lead to the dog never being able to be off lead is talking nonsense.

Ok this is something of a pet subject with me.

I've got a 2 year old lab and a have a revolving door of foster dogs and they all end up with near perfect recall. And until they do - I mean 99.9% come back like a bullet train whatever else is going on they are on a long line (not a retractable one - dangerous and should be banned).

The reason I teach recall is because safety and responsible dog ownership and because I'm damn lazy and I much prefer being able to walk anywhere and be totally relaxed that a dog is going to come back to me. And because I walk a lot of reactive dogs and the reason they are reactive is because muppets let their dogs off lead without being able to recall them from other dogs. It's extremely dangerous - for both dogs and the person at the end of the lead.

My lab is textbook and had perfect recall but she went from perfect up until about 8 months when she turned into a teenager and it was like she had forgotten everything. She had by but suddenly the world was very exciting and no longer scary and she wanted to go explore/play/find a boyfriend.

So she went back on a long line and I started everything from scratch.

Recall starts in the house - not when they are merrily gallivanting about ignoring you.

If you don't have a recall word that's not their name - make one up. They heard their name all the time and it becomes meaningless. You need a word that means come to me now - whatever else is happening.

I use heeerrreeeee - just because it's easy to yell in an exaggerated way to start with and eventually just becomes a short "here" to get the same reaction.

You are lucky- labs are very food motivated - but as you're found - the lure of independence can be even more motivating when they are teenagers.

So 1. Increase their food motivation
If you feed kibble, hold back a half or so of breakfast and she gets fed it when she comes to "here". I always do this in the house - from inches, then feet, then a different room, then the garden then a mixture of all of these. Each time - the moment she makes a move towards you reward with a "YES" then the food when she gets to you. Repetition and timing.

When this is instant do it outside on the long line. Set her up to succeed - recall every time she looks at you. In the teenage years but actually This just works with all dogs - you have got to be wayyyy more fun and interesting to come to than anything that is going on.

How I do this is - on the long line

1. huge yes and for paying attention
2. running away a bit to ignite her chase instinct
3. Feed a treat (and by treat I mean a bit of kibble) by hand - and this is the real magic - chucking it at her and best of all scattering a few bits around d my feet so she has to hunt it out.
4. Intersperse the kibble with really high value treats, chicken/cheese/sausage

Call ONCE - if no reaction and sharp tug on the lead to get attention and then yes and reward

As time goes on I start to reward any time she looks at me - by throwing a treat on the ground next to me.

On a typical hour walk I will recall 40+becomes a fun game. Heerrreeee yes, scatter treats/kibble lots of praise

Once they've come back I will walk backwards and do and second and their recall with instant treat/praise/yes.

When I teaching a teenage lab or a foster with allegedly no recall I look like a loon - I'm the most exciting thing in that dogs world.

I do all the initial recalls outside where there are no distractions. And then do it when there are loads of distractions/other dogs off lead/squirrels etc.

With time I keep the long lead on by drop it and rinse and repeat.

It works. And once the teenage phase is over you have a dog you can recall in any situation.

Even with the rock solid lab I recall her 10-15 every walk WHEN I DON'T NEED TO. It's the equivalent of checking the brakes and steering on a car.

I can recall her now mid play with a dog/from a deer - always. But she stayed on the long line until I could.

I just used and am still using this with my current foster - who had never been off lead because he just ran off and would t come back - he's a late developing teenage lab/Shepard mix with low food motivation/drive.

I've created it by feeding him his breakfast on our morning walks and most of his dinner (the kibble part of it) and recalling him in the house/out on walks/everywhere 30-50 times a days. He thinks it's a great game now and after 2 weeks I m at the dropping the (still attached long line) for about 50% of our customers alls - which means he gets to run and play and be a proper dog.

He's another couple of weeks at least away from me getting rid of the long line - and I'll play that by ear. I'd rather her was on it for a few more months if it means he has near perfect recall.

So it's not you - it's them

Bloody teenagers - but if you do all or some of the above you'll have a safe dog that can run around like a loon but be totally in control at tbe same time. It makes owning a dog a joy and for me is worth the effort for the long term gain.

This is incredibly useful stuff - I have exactly the same issues with my 1 y.o GSD - his recall was great until the cocky teen phase kicked in. I've ordered the Total Recall book - thanks to the PPs who recommended it.

Question about long lines - I bought a rubberised one because it was meant to be wipe clean but he has nearly snapped it. Any recommendations about length / type??

lots of good advice above but also? figure out what is high value to him in the outside world (mine couldn’t care less about even his fave treats once in the great outdoors) - despite him being a lab, fun could beat any food, so you may need to use a toy or ball instead (the latter for us!)

Watching with interest. We’ve started letting ours off the lead after doing all the things listed above (which our trainer also recommended) and just when I think I’ve pretty much cracked it, he does the odd bolt after another off-lead dog and runs about with it. I usually use a short trailing lead so I can stand on it if needed, but it’s the inconsistency that is infuriating. He’s 15 months old so definitely in adolescent mode.

Thanks so much everyone for all your replies, this is all so useful. We'll keep working on it, and I'll try to be more patient. He loves tug toys, so we'll keep one for outside, he's not fussed about balls or dummies, he's not a very good retriever! We use just a very long lead, we don't use a retractable lead. We met someone out today with a GSD puppy actually, and they had her on a horses lunge rope, which seemed like a good idea if they're really strong.