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The doghouse

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Original poster

Dog killed sheep

157 replies

gottobehavemyself · 26/12/2022 20:37

I know how awful this is, trust me. I also know that it's not his fault - he should never have been in the position to kill the sheep.

My in laws' 18 month old german pointer got into the farmers' field and killed two sheep. He's previously killed a peacock. Is there any coming back from this? Can this be trained out of them?

He's partially trained for day to day stuff but still a real handful and unpredictable with regards to his recall. They've had dogs for years, trained big and similarly bred dogs from puppies but they have struggled with this one from day one. I think they've underestimated the breed in terms of size and strength, and over estimated their own ability, given their age and other commitments.

Really I want to know if this can be sorted out or if he needs to be euthanised. I (know nothing about dogs) suggested he's never off the lead and wears a muzzle in the short term while they figure out what to do. Anyone with any experience of a similar situation? Any helpful advice or stories welcome

OP posts:
thelobsterquadrille · 26/12/2022 21:45

@ThisGirlNever yep, I still don't see the relevance.

There's no evidence whatsoever that this dog is aggressive to humans 🤷🏻‍♀️

SemperIdem · 26/12/2022 21:46

This happened with a friends dog, a few years ago, not the same breed but another one with a very high prey drive. The police were involved following the incident.

He has to be kept on a lead for walks. Can’t be let off ever. He is in all other ways a lovely dog, great around people and other dogs. He is fine with animals…on his lead.

Otterock · 26/12/2022 21:47

The most sensible solution would be to rehome somewhere where he’ll never be able to terrorise livestock. They are extremely lucky that the farmer has been understanding - legally farmers are allowed to shoot dogs terrorising their animals.

JelloFishy · 26/12/2022 21:52

Also from a farming background a lot of us love dogs and would only shoot a dog as an absolute last resort.

Farming is a business yes, but some of us really do care about our animals.

We lost 3 sheep to a dog attack as BIL couldn't bring himself to shoot the dog.

Some of us are average human beings!

FourChimneys · 26/12/2022 21:53

How many people here suggesting it would be terrible to shoot the dog have eaten meat this Christmas? Why is one animal life more precious than another?

People saying the dog is unlikely to be a danger to humans are missing the point. It is currently a danger to sheep and the farmer's livelihood.

I hope the owners are well insured against this.

JelloFishy · 26/12/2022 21:55

I guess most farmers are not emotionally attached to their animals they are sending to slaughter. Dogs become part of the family.

LittleBitLostWithoutYou · 26/12/2022 21:56

DifferenceEngines · 26/12/2022 21:39

I also grew up on a farm. I still live in a rural community. Yes, farms are a business. That does not mean that many farmers don't care deeply about their animal's well-being. They just don't apply human values to them. You can care about animals without treating them like humans.

Show quote history

Another one with farmers in the family. I agree with @DrunkOnHim . It does come down to money. Farmers provide care to the animals but do not care deeply about them. Theres 4 farms in my family and they do to make money and a weird sort of status.

Not ‘applying human values?’. I don’t treat any animals like humans, they’re animals, they do animal stuff. Doesn’t mean they’re there for me to eat. I wouldn’t treat a dog or a hamster like a human and wouldn’t send them to slaughter either.

The owners of this dog have no clue by the sounds of things. The dog should never be off lead by livestock. It’s hard not to feel angry at their total ignorance and stupidity. So sad for the sheep, but only humans at fault here, not the dog. That’s usually the case.

thelobsterquadrille · 26/12/2022 21:59

FourChimneys · 26/12/2022 21:53

How many people here suggesting it would be terrible to shoot the dog have eaten meat this Christmas? Why is one animal life more precious than another?

People saying the dog is unlikely to be a danger to humans are missing the point. It is currently a danger to sheep and the farmer's livelihood.

I hope the owners are well insured against this.

Nobody is saying it's not a danger to livestock and I think most people would have been on the farmers' side if they'd shot it.

But the farmer can only shoot the dog if it's actively worrying sheep - they can't do anything after the incident is over except report it to the police and hope it goes to court.

Whatmarbles · 26/12/2022 22:07

We have a GSP, not our first, we also live on a farm.
She sadly picked off one of our chickens, entirely my dh's fault, he let her out of sight and she took the opportunity.

He doubled down on her training and she now co-exists with the chickens nicely. She can come in their run with us and she takes absolutely no notice of them.

She did jump over the wall and into the sheep once and she split one off from the herd. The sheep was stood against the wall whilst she sat close by watching it. She didn't touch it but she didn't want to let it move away.
Dh then worked on her jumping walls and not being allowed to until given permission.

Just because it has killed once, it doesn't mean it will again but it takes consistent boundaries to get there.

SirGawain · 26/12/2022 22:10

lemons44 · 26/12/2022 20:49

Your FIL very nearly shot the dog himself? That's terrible. Does he not realise its HIS fault and not the dogs. If this was my in laws i wouldn't be able to bite my tongue

It may well be the owners fault, but the dog is a killer and can never be trusted. The farmer would be justified in law to have the dog destroyed if he wished.
The death of two (pregnant) sheep would be a significant financial loss even assuming that the others don't miscarry.

bluetongue · 26/12/2022 22:12

I’m a whippet owner. It’s a breed known for their prey drive but he just needs to be managed accordingly. He gets to run in secure parks and fields and on the beach. He’s incredibly gentle and affectionate with people and putting him to sleep when he’s no danger if managed properly would be ridiculous.

Goatsanddogs · 26/12/2022 22:12

If the farmer isn’t pressing for the dog to be put down then just keep the dog on a lead all the time. Better that he is restricted by never having free runs than be put to sleep and it isn’t the poor dogs fault, they are animals and follow instincts. So sad to think of the father in law laying the blame at the dog when the dog should have been on a lead around livestock.

LittleBitLostWithoutYou · 26/12/2022 22:16

Goatsanddogs · 26/12/2022 22:12

If the farmer isn’t pressing for the dog to be put down then just keep the dog on a lead all the time. Better that he is restricted by never having free runs than be put to sleep and it isn’t the poor dogs fault, they are animals and follow instincts. So sad to think of the father in law laying the blame at the dog when the dog should have been on a lead around livestock.

Easier for him to blame the dog than face the fact that he’s the real failure here. Poor dog having that as an owner. There should be more control over who is allowed dogs. Most humans wouldn’t meet the standard if decent criteria was put in place for dog ownership.

BirmaBrite · 26/12/2022 22:20

This breed do tend to have a high prey drive. Saying that we got ours at a similar age to your PIL's dog and he moved into a home with a toddler and cats without any issues.
I never did trust him around sheep. Cows and horses and he was fine with, could be in a field, off lead with either and didn't pay them the slightest bit of attention. I guess a lot depends on where your PIL's live ? Are they surrounded by sheep ? in which case they are either going to have to keep him on lead or train him not to bother with sheep, which will probably be harder to do now. Also the people I know who have successfully done this used methods which would be frowned upon on here. Or find places to walk him where there is no livestock.

Mrsrivella · 26/12/2022 22:31

I think the fact the dog was in a seemingly secure field makes a difference. Obviously what happened is bad but there’s a difference between letting a dog run loose in a field full of livestock and letting it run around a seemingly secure field. We have 2 dogs (1 a Pointer type) and live near lots of livestock. Definitely can’t let either dog off a lead when out - but had a bad experience when one slipped a lead and chased a cat into a garden. Luckily nothing happened but it could have been like this….ps pointers are fabulous dogs generally

Doveyouknow · 26/12/2022 22:32

There was a gsp living near us in a very urban environment. He was known for chasing kids in the park and grabbing their coats with his mouth. I really wouldn't suggest rehoming that type of dog in an urban environment - it's prey drive will find a new target....

Salome61 · 26/12/2022 22:47

So very sorry for the sheep, such an agonising death and it's not quick. But it's not the dog's fault.

I hope your inlaws accept they have not researched the breed properly, haven't trained him, and cannot control him because they haven't been consistent.

I have seen so many breeds suffering following lockdown being homed with inappropriate owners, I hope they agree to rehome him.

Ostryga · 26/12/2022 22:54

The dog needs to be muzzled on all walks as a bare minimum now.

GSPs are highly intelligent and lend well to good training so it’s not a total write off. BUT they have to put the effort in every single day. You don’t train a dog once and then that’s it. Training happens at every walk, at home every day.

Floralnomad · 26/12/2022 22:59

The dog needs rehoming to someone responsible , not someone who is going to blame the dog for being a dog and doing what a lot of dogs would do given the opportunity.

Prescottdanni123 · 26/12/2022 23:01

@FourChimneys

So the dog should be shot out of what? Revenge. It is not going to bring the sheep back. Of course the farmer would have been within his rights to shoot the dog at the time. I live in the countryside and have farmer friends, so while I'm a massive dog lover, I would have been on the farmer's side because I know what damage can be wrought by a dog getting in amongst sheep. The farmer has been very understanding and is happy with whatever compensation has been offered. Killing sheep doesn't make the dog dangerous to humans so what would be the purpose of putting down someone's pet in this situation.

Also, your comment about meat eaters is worse than grasping at straws.

Prescottdanni123 · 26/12/2022 23:06

@SirGawain

Just as well the farmer hasn't demanded that then isn't it?

No dog can be trusted around sheep. My friend's dog is a really soft German Shepherd who thinks that sheep are for playing with because her owner raises triplets/orphans/rejected lambs for farmers. But she would still be a danger off lead around sheep because she'd chase them/try to play which would lead to them getting stressed out and miscarrying

A dog chasing/killing sheep does not automatically make them a danger to humans however

RunningFromInsanity · 26/12/2022 23:09

thelobsterquadrille · 26/12/2022 20:50

Just keep the dog on a lead in public from now on.

Yes, it's horrendous but it's happened now and the fact that the dog aggressive to livestock doesn't meant that it's any danger to humans.

Literally this would solve the problem

Barcelle · 26/12/2022 23:13

Awful situation but I have to agree it sounds like the owners need to reconsider if they are suitably responsible. The strength of prey drive is one of the first things to determine and address with a puppy from a working breed so you can include in the training ways to extinguish the reaction in case it is unsafe (e.g. a HPR breed like GSP or Vizslas around livestock, or a Border Collie that has a herding instinct causing it to chase cars etc). Neither of my pointers will go near livestock and are trained to stay close to heel off-lead around them. I have a goofy retriever puppy who doesn't chase (or kill) but does go too close so I keep him on a lead still around livestock. I would not leave him unattended in a nearby field even if I thought it was fenced in as I know he is curious.

PugInTheHouse · 27/12/2022 11:56

My 10 month old big puppy has dreadful recall. If we are anywhere that isn't enclosed he has to be on the long line. He is a breed that are notorious for their prey drive although he seems to have none whatsoever. He'll run over to birds and watch them then run away if they move. I definitely wouldn't take any chances even so. He has been bitten by a beagle even though he's 4 times their size as his recall is so bad and he approached one off lead (in a dog park) it wasn't entirely his fault, long situation to explain but he still should have taken the warning the other dog gave him the 1st time.

It's a really difficult situation if the dogs has genuinely jumped 2 large fences but after the 1st killing incident then really your ILs should have sought advice/training at that point. Even in an enclosed place the long line can just be left to trail.

FurAndFeathers · 27/12/2022 12:05

This dog is NOT aggressive. Those asking if he’s ok with humans are entirely missing the point.

this is totally normal dog behaviour - hundreds of sheep are injured or killed each year by happy healthy non-aggressive dogs because irresponsible owners do not keep them under control.

killing a dog because it’s people are irresponsible is not the answer. The dog needs to be rehomed - to a home with no cats and a responsible owner who can safely train and exercise it and avoid livestock and other risk factors.

there’s no reason the dog can’t be kept muzzled and leashed except the owners can’t be arsed. @gottobehavemyself try contacting a GSHP breed rescue for help