best small or medium breed off-lead

[iiojdasdewe]

I want a biddable dog that is handler focussed and really good off-lead, for playing frisbee/fetch in the fields, hiking in forests and hills, and possibly running alongside me as I ride my bike on trails. but I don't want a big dog at all. Smaller than 20kg would be best. Any ideas?

Another vote for Springer - mine is fab! He’s never been that interested in other dogs or people which has made recall much easier. He’s 13 months and is 18kg, he’s a bit on the slim side so I imagine will end up a bit over 20kg when he’s fully grown and filled out.

Another vote for borders. Everyone I’ve met has thrived in a variety of homes, happy to go out with you for hours, but will cope with a 30 minute spin round the block if that’s what you’ve got time for, funny happy little dogs and generally the ones I’ve known have solid recall

Show cocker or show lab. The line will matter A LOT!

Miniature schnauzers are usually easy to handle

We have a small working Sprocker and she would fit the bill perfectly, but we’ve been very dedicated to her training which is the key.

Can't we ever have threads in the doghouse, where there is just friendly, open discussion?

Does every single dog-related query need to be a d*€k measuring contest to see who knows the most about the species?

Border collie for sure. My two just back from a days hill walking in the snow.

Springers. The best dogs. If you put the work in and give them the right sort of lifestyle of course

I have a miniature Shnauzer/Poodle cross who completely fits your description.

How are they at home on a day to day basis though? Totally mental or pretty much ok?

A Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever fits your bill - mine is 14.5kg but most are 15-20kg

She has run with me, loves retrieving (name is a giveaway) and we do agility too. Lovely mix of breeds 🐕

Lagotto? You’ve basically described our dog. Very loyal, intelligent, trainable, will walk and play for hours!

I'd love a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever but I can't find any breeders in my country unfortunately.

Another vote for Springer - mine is fab! He’s never been that interested in other dogs or people which has made recall much easier

Our springer is the same - at most she'll pause for a five second bum sniff of another dog if it literally walks right next to her - but she's politely disinterested at best. And she completely ignores dogs more than a couple of feet away from us and the same with people. She's focused on me and the scents she's picking up with her nose down and that's it. We haven't done any specific training on this, it's just innate so we've not needed to.

It's the main difference I've noticed between springers and cockers and why I far prefer springers - all the springers we know are similarly disinterested in dogs and people when out whilst cockers approach me or ddog far more, with owners often struggling to recall them. Ddog has been chased by many cockers trying to play with her while on walks whilst she side eyes them and ignores.

They’re not obstinate - they were bred to be independent so don’t need us to do their ‘job’. That means you need to make it worth their while. They’re not hanging on your every word like the more handler focused breeds but they are amazingly trainable in the right hands.

Ive taught lots of terriers agility. I know a lot that compete in obedience and agility. They are bright. They are problem solvers. They need their brain working as well as their legs. All working type dogs go self employed if they are bored. They do require patience and care and above all, reward based training.

What about a sheltie/Shetland Sheepdog or a miniature poodle? Both would love that amount of exercise and are smart and love to please their humans.

Oh no, that's a shame 🙁. They are lovely dogs and I'm not sure what I'd have instead!

I have always had herding breeds and some of them would definitely fit the bill for you. I currently have an Australian Shepherd, now 18 months old. They are a medium sized breed, though mine is slightly bigger than you are looking for (he weighs about 22 kg). There is a miniature version as well, but I don't have any experience with them.

My Aussie is active and energetic, loves playing with balls and frisbees, adores going for long walks in woods and fields. Swimming is another favourite activity. His recall is good, though in the interest of full disclosure he had a phase of selective deafness when he was in the depths of adolescence. He's also brilliant on the lead. At home he is calm and settled. He's extremely bright though also eager to please. All in all, he's an absolute delight.

I looked at Aussies as well as Border Collies, does anybody know to what extent they differ in terms of energy/off-switch?

Although we're a very active family, some people seem to suggest that a Border Collie absolutely will be unhappy and/or destructive if not given a "job" to do (some people even suggest they shouldn't be kept as family pets at all) which is a bit worrying.

Are Aussies the same, or are they a little more chilled at home, in general?

For example, I can get up and run for an hour and I can provide mental stimulation at regular intervals and I can throw frisbee for an hour in the evening and go hiking at the weekends, but I do have a job too. I will have to sit at my desk (at home) for 6-8 hours a day Mon-Fri, there's no two ways about that.

Poodle (not something crossed with a Poodle, but an actual Poodle). They come in 3 sizes, are highly intelligent and trainable. They adore their human/s and the miniatures (middle size) and standards are not really that interested in strange dogs or strange people once they are past puppyhood, so recall isn’t a problem. They are also not chewers by nature and well, they are just lovely dogs.

@iiojdasdewe Border Collies only have an “off switch” if they have a job of work to do or lots of stimulation, including lots of exercise. They can be difficult dogs otherwise, often developing obsessions e.g. shadow chasing, which includes hours of panting and being hyper. I wouldn’t want to take the risk of a dog developing like that, so I wouldn’t have one myself!

Right. So are Aussies generally seen as the same? Os slightly easier in that sense?

@iiojdasdewe I know Aussies as a breed

Visla could be another option

In terms of energy levels, someone once told me that an Australian Shepherd is a border collie that knows when to quit. 😀 I don't necessarily think it's always the case that Aussies are calmer than border collies, though. It definitely depends on the individual dog.

Some people will say that both breeds need constant activity and stimulation. That has not been my experience. Encouraging calmness in the house is definitely worth doing IMO.