best small or medium breed off-lead

[iiojdasdewe]

I want a biddable dog that is handler focussed and really good off-lead, for playing frisbee/fetch in the fields, hiking in forests and hills, and possibly running alongside me as I ride my bike on trails. but I don't want a big dog at all. Smaller than 20kg would be best. Any ideas?

They're working dogs, the same as working cockers and most collies. They need a job if they're going to be happy and settled in a "pet" home.

I trail run off lead with my miniature poodles - their recall is pretty cast iron

An intelligent dog will learn what you want, then figure out ways to avoid it.

This most definitely applies to HPR dogs like Brittanies and Pointers.

Staffy type dog.
My collie is a total liability (working stock) and will maybe catch if she feels like it but won't fetch, will recall unless there is something moving nearby that she then has to nip off and round up and will definitely not be safe running behind a bike as she would be off chasing the nearest runner or cyclist (or canal barge- literally anything moving). She is very good company though, hilarious sense of humor and loves to cuddle when she isn't busy doing the jobs she's given herself.

I've got a show x working cocker and he's been a little gem. No guarding at all, we worked hard when he was tiny on setting good foundations. We do gundog training with him.

One would be ideal for you, maybe a shoc cocker rather than working? They're a bit less buzzy.

I've got a show cocker he's brilliant. I had a greyhound before who was docile and loving but no recall whatsoever. My cocker learned his commands so easily and would love the lifestyle described in the op. We haven't tried him with cycling but I'm thinking we should give it a try.

He has no guarding behaviours at all. If you lift his food bowl while he's eating he just looks sad. I don't think it occurs to him to try and get it back.

Downsides to spaniels is that they are retrievers so cats and squirrels are an issue. They are also natures dustbins and eat everything they can though I notice my boy has got very lazy now he's 7 and anything on the side or in a packer he can't be bothered.

I think if you are providing the high level of exercise and stimulation described in the op then most medium sized working breeds would be fine really.

I have a working lab now, although he’s very much bred to be a pet-type worker as opposed to a rocket fuelled field trial champion worker. He’s an excellent canicross dog for me and I suspect would adore bikejor (I’m much more a runner than a cyclist and DH doesn’t fancy it), has good recall and is a great companion. However, he is larger than the op wants (26kg) and was a git as a puppy and teenager - now, at 18 months, we are getting the real him and it’s awesome. But we put some hard yards in to get there. And he still has his moments! But he’s the right dog for our family - active, sporty, always up for a walk and a gentle, kind soul.

With any working gundog breed you’d be well advised to look at the parents’ pedigrees and if you aren’t going to put many, MANY hours and all the money into gundog training, avoid anything with lots of FTCHs in its lineage. I’d say that a nice, healthy show type is generally a reliable Land Rover, we have a slightly sporty family car in Spudpup, and a field trial bred dog is a Ferrari, to be approached with caution and a lot of homework!

My cocker spaniel recalled from a group of deer that unexpectedly bounded across our path last week - BUT its taken 2 years to get here, with a solid few months during adolescence where he did not go off the long line at all as his ears were purely decorative.

He's less of a twat now - an absolute joy to walk - but we do have to be careful managing the home environment as he has a tendency towards guarding certain items (so the best solution while we work with a behaviourist on this is that he doesn't get the chance to grab them).

I know you don’t want a big dog but you really can’t beat a Labrador! Our working lab is 30kg of loveliness.

The many terriers competing in agility, obedience and various other sports say otherwise.

My terrier has fabulous recall and is fabulous to train. I know many collies and spaniels that are not!

My last dog was a terrier sighthound cross. She competed at the high levels in agility. We ran miles together. She would have run with a bike and would walk all day. She was also great with cats (with training - we had 2) and was happy chilling while we worked out of the house.

She was a rescue with a very tricky start.

Dogs are what you put in to them in most cases.

Like any working line HPR, a Brittany will have a lot of prey drive. You'll need to work hard to reel that in and keep it under control, but it is absolutely possible. Bloody hard work ('constant vigilance is the price of recall', or something) but possible.

What they do need is an outlet for their natural drives, and just running next to a bike probably won't cut it. They like to do things that fire up their brains. The Brits I've known who have been arses have not had that outlet; the ones I know which are chilled and well-mannered are trained for gundog work.

I don't know enough about the breed to say whether there is a work/show split, but I'd always advise someone who wants a gundog as a pet to avoid lines heavy with field trial winners and champions (FTW and FTCh).

My Springer meets all on u

Bloody phone! My Springer meets all on your list. Brilliant dog.

@Spudlet
With any working gundog breed you’d be well advised to look at the parents’ pedigrees and if you aren’t going to put many, MANY hours and all the money into gundog training, avoid anything with lots of FTCHs in its lineage. I’d say that a nice, healthy show type is generally a reliable Land Rover, we have a slightly sporty family car in Spudpup, and a field trial bred dog is a Ferrari, to be approached with caution and a lot of homework!
Ha - missed this, but yes, this is what I was trying to say.

Adopt don’t shop!

Not sure why you're discounting all sighthounds as with decent training they can be wonderful. Not a retired racing grey for good recall of course, but a young lurcher can be very biddable with the added advantage of energetic outside and lazy at home!

A show cocker, but with a good deal of training, would meet these requirements. He’s been easy to train and (after the tricky first 3 years) has impeccable recall and is very responsive to voice commands. Not interested in fetch though (but will happily carry a stick for hours) - my sister owns his brother, who lives for a game of fetch, so maybe mine missed those genes!

I would suggest springer spaniel, border terrier (I know you said no terriers but they are fab) or a collie.

Have you looked at miniature schnauzers? We have one and he is as you describe- only issue we have with him is he is over-friendly with other dogs!!

I have known several terriers that would fit your requirements, as well as some smaller Lurchers.

My own Lurchers were probably too big (although one was only a smidge over 20kg) but a Whippet mix could suit you. Mine had incredible recall, were trained to the whistle and would recall from wildlife. They would take as much or as little exercise as you gave them, happy to curl up at home with us, go on a huge hike or go running with dh. As others have said, most of that was down to a lot of hard work and extensive training. They were rescues, but came to us as pups. There are quite a lot of young Lurchers in rescue at the moment, so it may well be worth a chat with places like Lurcher Link, Forever Hounds and EGLR if you would consider one. These rescues are exceptionally good at matching dogs/pups to the right families.

Current dog is probably too small for you at just over 4kg, but he’s a terrier with super recall. He’s bright as a button, you can teach him anything and he is besotted with his people so ignores other dogs and people out and about.

A Border terrier ticks all your boxes- will trot along with the bike all day. Traditionally used for the hunt so hard workers. Very easy to train and and we had good recall. Ours was a brilliant little dog with bags of go but equally happy to chill when needed. We had springers before and they were adorable but a bit nutty!!

Agree with this. My spanner was a bit of a pain the first couple of years but he's great now.
Ppl say they need loads of training but I've found once they get it they get it and it's ingrained. I'm no dog expert but I find the cocker really easy to train the world is black and white to him.

Borders are fab but they're obstinate little sods and will also go "self employed" quite readily. Great little dogs.

Poodle?