Struggling with puppy

[mumofthreesmallmen3]

Hi everyone, I am starting to struggle a lot with my puppy and would just like to maybe get ideas to help with the main issues I find I'm struggling with. Background is she is 19 weeks female Labrador. Over the past few weeks I have been finding it really hard, I'd like to know firstly If this is normal, secondly any tips. The nipping/not leaving alone is something I'm finding very hard,I know it's normal but it's relentless. Her routine is she gets 2 walks a day around 30 minutes each, around 9 and 4 roughly. The vets said the 5 minutes rule for walking outside so sticking to that, she also has my garden medium size and we also have a enclosed garden that we share with neighbours,communal, which is large and grassy and fully enclosed by the backs of our houses in a square shape, so she often will go out there too, I don't use lead there so I throw the ball and she has a run out there so I do think her exercise/physical Needs are being met. Is it possible I'm overdoing it or does this sound ok. We also do short training sessions with her kibble on things like sit,stay etc. If we are not out or actively playing/training she won't leave off, constantly bite my arms or hands, ashamed to say she made me cry the other day! Ridiculous! Id had bad news and I just wanted to sit down with a tea! I tried the yelping out loud then withdrawing from her, she goes more if I do that, I feel enticing her to do it more really with the loud exciting noises. I tried the remove myself from her with no reaction at all, I'm constantly standing up and down,up and down, I need a break! Is this normal? Another issue is she has diarrohea a lot, she actually has vets appointment on Monday as I need to sort the reason for diarrhoea out, it's impossible to pick up with bag, it makes a lot of mess,I'm hoping vet can help with issue but it's another thing that's quite stressful, in the day time she is pretty ok,odd accident, night time I put her into crate around 10pm after last toilet break as that's when I go to sleep, I still get up around 3/4 am to let her out as she needs a poo then, Is this normal? When would she be able to do 10pm to 6 am? I generally do hear her and let her out to go, if I do not in time she will soil crate, but after this 4am poo she's wide awake and ready to go, any advice for this issue? She is happy in crate I believe,she sometimes takes herself there in the daytime for nap, and bedtime she doesn't create, just at the 4am poo she will be wanting to get up and play then. She also will not toilet out on walks, is this a puppy thing and will change? She only will go in my small garden, not communal large one, when we finish walk and get to front door when I'm getting keys out of bag she will go outside front door without fail, is it because the walk is exciting so she forgets/holds as too busy sniffing/looking at everything? Anyone with experience of labradors 4/5 months is this all normal? It's so so much harder than I ever thought! If I sort the diarrhea problem on Monday that will be one less stressful thing, but she is hundred miles per hour most of the day! Is she not sleeping enough? She sleeps on and off through the day, but she's quite Velcro, she will sleep next to me on sofa,when I move,which I have to,she will wake so I don't know if I should be doing enforced naps in crate so I can get on with stuff? She's been lovely but I am shocked at how hard having a puppy really is! She is like having 4 toddlers at once with sharp teeth! By the time I do something in the house she's undone it! Sorry so long, did anyone else feel stressed at this age with there dogs,am I doing something wrong with her,please tell me in a year or 2 she's going to be a lovely mellow dog,she won't be this much forever will she? I'm trying to go with it but bit overwhelming last couple of weeks. I'm sorry this is so long

Eyes wide open, sorry don't know how to tag, it's interesting as actually that's the advice I get from family, then I get conflicting advice to that, I just don't know! My dad says tell her off, I do tell her but I also feel uncomfortable with the advice of things like tap her on the nose, it's old fashioned veiw,maybe it works maybe it doesn't I don't know, my family who I get most advice from I's to tell her off and tap her if she too much,I'm a bit more like maybe that's not the best idea and I'm trying to always do positive reinforcement,it does work but doesn't last, am I being too soft? On the other hand she's just a puppy, I feel a bit stuck in middle of the two approaches,I don't want to scare her into submission?

Dogs learn by reward reinforcement and repetition. Punishment suppresses the behaviour sometimes but like whack a mole it often pops up somewhere else. In worst case scenarios it can lead to aggression. At best a wariness of their humans.

When they bite they want to connect most of the time. So let them connect with a toy. I’m not saying ignore it. What we do is redirect and if that doesn’t work or it’s escalating then we remove ourselves the other side of a barrier and just wait a few seconds for her to calm down and go back in with a toy.

I always want my dog to do what I ask because she wants to. Not because she is afraid not to. I don’t ignore ‘bad’ behaviour but I do ask her to do something else instead and manage the environment to enable her to make good choices.

It works. Dogs need direction and not punishment. Lots of rescues will show you why.

Re the poo, i would look at her food. I have a 18month old Golden retreiver and at about 6 to 7 months she was quite lethargic and her poo was awful, we also had some puking incidences. We went to the vet and did loads of scans, bloods etc but found nothing other than inflamation. So we ended up changing her to Hypo allergenic food for a few months. Then we went back to normal food(but a different brand) and she has been fine since. But i am very careful what i feed her and keep her diet quiet simple.
Not all food suits all dogs.

Also my retreiver never had an issue eating what was the recommended amount at any age. She would have eaten more given the chance, and still would!!

We used to lock kids up in coal holes and cane them for being naughty. People (well, most) would be outraged if we still approached education that way as behavioural science has moved on.

same with animals.

Positive reinforcement works a lot better long term.
My parents smack their dog on the nose when it does something wrong. It's got absolutely no idea what the particular smack is for and so doesn't know not to do it again (ie is it for the biting, wagging tail, jumping, standing). Whereas if you reward nice behaviour then even if the dog doesn't quite know the exact thing that was nice, they'll try it again and work it out.
Much less likely to try and work out a punishment.

I think a good idea near top of thread is the 50 challenge,I don't know about 50 as she has stomach issues and been advised to not use treats only her kibble as much as possible, but if I start with say 15 to 20 small bits of dog treats and when she is doing what I like I randomly reward for it,do you think this good starting point?

I had this awful biting when mine was a puppy but it went on till he was probably nearly 2. We had all sorts of advice from different people which we tried. Will say as a mature dog he has been the perfect dog but I still remind him what a nightmare he was! I've since read that they do the biting when they get over tired like a toddler being a nuisance when they just need sleep. If I ever have another puppy I would try to give them more enforced sleep. They can wake go for a wee have their feed a little bit of training to keep their brain active and also tire them then try to get them back for a sleep for a couple of hours in crate if you use one. I think the mistake I made was that when he was being a pain I thought he needed more exercise when he probably would have been better with more sleep. This is just what I have read recently though and haven't actually done it myself.

I agree I also think it's because she needs more, but I might be wildly wrong.

I do.
When we did it with our pup we did actually use a mix of kibble and treats and just took it out of food allowance. Apparently acts a bit like a slot machine - sometimes it's a good payout, sometimes not so much!

Yeah I heard that,the reward system is what keeps them coming back? Bit like a gambling addict? So she may sometimes get something small (most), sometimes nothing and redirect to play,and occasionally jackpot (3 or 4 treats or a much better treat like fresh chicken etc) I think I read in the Pippa book it's the uncertainty that will keep them recalling and coming back, sometimes brilliant and occasionally nothing it's like a gambling mindset! I feel mean but I'm putting human emotions on to a dog and I think that's half of my problem,she thinks in a lot simpler terms than I do

Intermittent reward schedules are indeed like gambling.

What they are good for is training enduring behaviours. i.e. behaviours that don't tend to fade as quickly when no longer rewarded. Because it's always tempting to have one last roll of the dice or one last SIT to see if it works.

Typically you would reward every single time for brand new behaviours and then move to intermittent rewards once the behaviour is known to the dog and you want to make sure it 'sticks'.

Have you ever watched a bitch interact with her puppies? There's no distraction, no rewards, no negotiations - there's a sharp, direct, unequivocal - "stop doing that, NOW". Puppy learns what is and isn't acceptable. You have to react immediately so that the puppy knows what it just did was wrong. There's no physical punishment - the tone of voice and the stare is enough.

Last time I looked I wasn’t a dog…

I could’ve written this twelve years ago….

My Lab loved the squeal, he thought it was great fun. We found a firm NO, get up walk away for and ignoring him for ten mins after a nip worked better.
I personally wouldn’t ignore the exercise rule, because I did and my dog has awful arthritis snd fid from a young age. It’s not long, try and stick to it.
Kong, peanut butter (doggy), antlers, plenty of chew toys, perhaps a soft teddy.
We didn’t allow him on the furniture, he never tried so this was easy.
It will pass.
Ours was a nightmare pup, but the best dog we’ve ever had.

@Newpeep - I'm glad to hear it 😂

Would you consider addressing his diet OP? The diarrhoea and the general bitey-ness might indicate he's uncomfortable and not digesting his food properly. You mentioned kibble, this can be tough for dogs to digest as it swells up in their stomach.

Yes I'm open to her diet we have a appointment Monday,I think it's more than diet so she is having a stool sample as been around 7/8 weeks now so if I sorted poo issue would be easier,I think it's the whole combo making it hard, with the biting/nipping I try to keep in mind she is basically about 3 years old,a toddler, it's hard when it's constant and I know she's not being naughty she wants my attention that's why I'm wondering am I either doing too much or too little

Or maybe this is just it, regardless of what I may or may not do. I've had dogs before but not from puppy, always been around 4 or 5 as rescue so I've skipped all these issues

Never had to resort to wellies, but i've always kept a thick leather gardening glove handy when puppy gets over-excited. And a Nylabone (puppy version) to redirect their attention to. That bitey phase is so horrible, but it's important they go through it to teach bite inhibition.

One of the first things i've taught all mine was the "wait" command. To slow things down a bit, teaching them to do things at your speed instead of at theirs. Kind of saying to them "you will get what you want if you stay calm". It's a good way of teaching impulse control, and covers so many situations, from calming down the excitement when they get a bit frenetic, to taking food from your hand gently instead of snatching, to not jumping out of the car as soon as the door opens,................

Ever time i have a puppy get through that phase i think NEVER AGAIN. And then i do it all again. and again. because it's absolutely worth it for that moment when you first think "someone stole my puppy and replaced it with this amazing dog"

I hope all goes well at the vets. I could have written your opening post, the constant standing up and down, the relentless nipping and wanting attention. The not being able to move because he would get up and follow me the minute I did so, even though he was napping. He has to go in his crate for naps if I am busy because he will still wake from a seemingly good nap if I so much as answer my phone.

I have / had very similar problems to you including food, with my springer puppy. He was in the vets at a few weeks old as he was very poorly and dehydrating with his diarrhoea and he has been on hypoallergenic food ever since, though it's both wet and kibble. So far any time we have tried to introduce a different food or treats he gets an upset stomach. He never has treats, we use the kibble for treats and training.

I work from home so I thought this would be ideal but his biting, snapping and jumping up drove me to tears, my clothes have holes in where his puppy teeth nipped or hung on. It was constant and at times I felt I was being attacked. Fortunately he's always been happy in his crate and so I used to put him in there for time out. I needed that time out too. My DH has come home to me in tears on more than one occasion.

Biting / Chewing
He is a chewer and no toy has lasted long no matter how tough, Nylabones were
useful when he was younger, bones like sweet potato or filled with peanut butter etc upset his stomach but he needs something in his mouth so he has olive or coffee wood sticks, a split antler, coconut rolls or filled bones, we scoop out the filling and put his food in. He loves and can tolerate Yakers sticks and when these get small they go in the microwave for 2 minutes and blow up into a cinder toffee type treat.

Whenever he started to nip or bite we swapped my hand, foot, ankle, insert body part here .... for a chew of some description.

Feeding is spread through the day ad hoc, so often when I need to be in a meeting or get on with something or distract him. We don't use a bowl we stuff a kong, we use varied lick mats and found a wobble kibble dispenser that he hasn't broken yet (he's broken two and he's only 6 months same with a puzzle feeder) We stuff bones with food, freeze carrots and a smaller kong and scatter feed with kibble which we also use for rewards.

Jumping / Mouthing
He also jumped up constantly and so we ignored him, turned our backs (it didn't stop him hence the holes in clothes) then we praised him giving him kibble when he had four paws on the floor and eventually his jumping became less. We also taught him to wait (with limited success so far). So now when we come home, or when he gets up in the morning or visitors come he is learning to sit before he is acknowledged. He is also getting very good at this out walking, he will sit while people pass including other dogs and if the person starts to talk to him I remind them he is a puppy and will jump up.

His mouthing is usually because he wants / needs something which he can't get to which could be food, his water or to be outside or he doesn't want you to stroke him etc. However it's also when he is over stimulated or excited and so he often needs some crate time, he may take a short while to settle if he's over stimulated but it works, he comes out calmer later.

Walking / Toilet outdoors / Exercise
At first he would not go for a walk, just lay down. A springer who wouldn't go for a walk?? Then he would only go out if I was there, we would have to carry him away from the house. Eventually my DH put him in the car and drove him half a mile away so he would go out with just him, and it worked. It took weeks for him to have a poo outside of the garden though and sometimes he would pull to go home just so he could poo in our garden. We praised him ridiculously when he did it elsewhere.

I can't take him out in the car though he will not settle for me.

He has regular crate time during the day even if we are at home doing nothing it helps regulate him. His exercise is either once or twice a day with me or DH, with me it is on a long lead in dog walk areas. With DH it is scent work off lead in the fields. Sometimes if he is out with DH for a longer spell we don't take him out the next day. We have a large secure garden and he goes out there but he has eaten quite a lot of it so its short supervised spells. We don't throw balls in the garden, scatter feeding tires him more.

So yeh he's like a toddler and having a puppy is a lot harder than I remember when I was younger. It has been so hard there are days when I dont even like him 😨

We haven't put a tree up that would be too much temptation and we would be constantly at him to get off it. He loves paper and cardboard and dangly things. He is faster than me and no he doesn't look like a cute Andrex puppy when he has dragged and chewed the loo roll across the room. Shoes are all on a high level, if it's within reach it's in his mouth.

Good luck, I feel your pain 🐾

Have you tried bitter apple spray? It's foul tasting stuff.
I don't use it as a "spray it on everything", but just as a training aid. Spray a couple of things and put them on the floor, and when she goes to pick them up tell her "leave it". If she ignores you she'll get the horrible taste, and she should very soon start to take notice of what you say.

Thanks everyone, I do have the apple spray yes, so that is a good idea to help reinforce a leave it. The vets have recommended I feed her only boiled chicken breast and rice, until her poo is normal (no longer runny/Wet I suppose) they said at least a week, then to change her food to a premium brand like royal canin,Purina or hills, she was on iams, they want me to use one of the premium ones that have meat as first ingredient rather than cereal as first ingredient, so when her poos become normal slowly over 4/5 days start to mix in bit by bit with the new food until she fully onto the new kibble, obviously it's Xmas coming up so they said if still having issues with diarrhoea and blood then I need to bring in a 3 day stool sample first week of January to check for other parasite's, she's also on a 5 day course of panacure (spelling?) If her poo still doesn't become normal on chicken and rice I keep the chicken and rice up until I can go back early January and they will send the sample off to check for other parasite's. I'm wondering what quantities she will need a day, I know it's 2 thirds rice with one third boiled chicken breast, she normally has 3 meals a day, how many breasts do you think roughly per day, just made a batch up of rice and shredded chicken, it will last a few days in fridge won't it?

To teach a really good leave, just drop a treat beside them and when they eat it, grab the item they shouldn’t have. No sprays needed. My pup grabbed a wet wipe on our walk today. Treat dropped, ooooo nice, nom, wet wipe disappeared. You can introduce a command later.

Have a look on all about dog food for recommendations. Our pup is on Arden grange. She was on James well beloved but it made her a bit anal glandy. No issues on AG.

Just for hope on the biting ours is 18 weeks and it’s reduced 90%. She’s now developed really nice bite inhibition. She mouthes but it’s soft and not drawing blood like it was. That’s with fairly constant redirection and the odd removing ourselves if it got too much. Husband is finally out of his wellies 😂

Re. Cooking do it in bulk then freeze. Cheaper.

I don’t go on quantities for feeding dogs. Just keep an eye on body condition. Pup is on much more than the recommended plus bucket loads of treats and is only just maintaining her weight.

My last dog ate three times her recommended daily allowance. Fonda really vary like humans.

Fonda? Crikey. Dogs 😂