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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

Our rescue dog bit my daughter and I today.

150 replies

CaraVann · 12/12/2022 19:06

3 months ago we rescued our dog, Bear.
He was born November 2020. Original owner got him at 7 weeks (I’ve worked out he was a Christmas dog!), it was also during lockdown, when the owner returned to work she crated him for 12 hours every day, she lived in a flat with no garden and never took Bear out, ever.
I believe the owner surrendered him to the rescue when he was about 12 months old.
The rescue worked hard on him as he was scared of the outside world and even putting a harness on him was hard work. They have done such great work with him but he will always be a very anxious dog, bless him.
He was adopted earlier this year, the couple had him for 3 months then gave him back. I was told by the rescue this was because they gave him a lickimat, he bit some of it off and swallowed a piece, he had to go to the vet to induce vomiting and apparently reverted back to his early days as the vets is one of his anxiety triggers and the couple couldn’t handle it, apparently.
So he was returned to the rescue, spent a few more months there and we adopted him early September.
He has been with us for 3 months.
We have had a few settling in issues with him but none of them major. The main things have been him weeding and pooing in the house, being scared of cars, scared of the vacuum cleaner, ripping things up (cushions/throws etc) and barking a lot for food/attention etc.
All these things have been ok to deal with as he has always been a happy and friendly dog, never shown aggression towards us, other people or other dogs.
He is so happy and bouncy that I often say he is like Tigger on speed!
I walk him at least twice a day, on the same field opposite my house.
As per the advice from the rescue and the behaviourist they use, we have kept his world small, just the local walks, just us family. We are a quiet family ( dc are 14 and 17), so no loud noises or lots of people coming and going.
All has been fine and he has been slowly settling into a good routine.
He was barking quite a bit in the evenings but for the last few weeks he has started to settle well and sits and snoozes on the sofa, in between dh and I, very cuddly and happy.
He has always been bouncy and happy and adores DH the most, he is definitely his favourite but seems to like us all.

However, today for some reason something changed.

Today he bit my dd and myself and I am not sure why.

The day started off well. Dh and I took him for a lovely walk over the field. We came home and he pottered around the house as usual then I popped out for a few hours. When I got home he was fine and greeted me happily as usual.
Dd came home from school and he sat next to her snoozing on the sofa, again, as usual.
Then dd touched his head, nothing abnormal there and he suddenly snapped and bit her on the hand. She was obviously shocked. I came in the room and sat with them both and stroked him. He seemed ok but looked a bit guilty. He then went for her again! Dd went upstairs to her room and we left him to settle.
A bit later (around half and hour) he came into the kitchen where I had been and I put my hand out gently to him (again, I’ve done this endless times and he has never shown any aggression towards me before this), he snarled/snapped suddenly and bit my thumb, drawing blood.
He now seems very wary of me for some reason, I don’t know why. He has always been so friendly and happy with us. I am quite shocked tbh as I can’t see what may have provoked this.
I don’t understand why he would do this after 3 months.
He had seemed fine all day, seems ok health wise.

Nothing today was out of routine other than DH was here this morning and didn’t go to work at 6.30am as usual, he is on sifts this winter and went to work at 1pm instead. But that is no different from the weekends when we all separately come and go.

Does anyone have any idea why he would turn on dd and I today?

OP posts:
PotatoScollop · 13/12/2022 11:37

CaraVann · 13/12/2022 07:55

Thank you so much for your advise PotatoScollop I have wracked my brain and can not think of anything which may have set him off. I wonder if he had been in quite a deep sleep, laying next to dd and her touching him on the head jarred him from his sleep, frightened him and set him off. He maybe then went on to bite me 15 or so minutes later as a self protection thing as he may have still been in that moment? And I should have mentioned in my op, yes Bear does have a crate. It’s in the kitchen, in a quiet part of the room, covered and he will occasionally go in it (he actually retreated to it after the bite incident), he also has a mattress bed in the kitchen which he chooses to sleep on but the crate is there for him nonetheless. We do not go near his crate, it’s his safe area and under the advise of the behavioural lady the rescue had used, we do not shut the crate door due to his history with crates.

Thank you for not being prepared to instantly give up on him (even if you do indeed end up having to take him back to the rescue down the line). Or, for putting him to sleep as some posters have suggested, which you could quite possibly find yourself in a legal battle with the rescue if you did that. Not to mention, the ethical concerns involved - not just in putting a dog to sleep because of problem behaviour, but because of the contract between yourself and the rescue. It doesn't sound from your post that this is something you're even considering which is a relief.

I'm quite aghast that users think they have the right to put animals to sleep that have been entrusted to them by rescue centres, to keep the animals safe, and it always stipulates to bring them back to the rescue if the owners cannot cope. I often see complaining that folk cannot rehome dogs from rescue centres because of the strict conditions. I used to agree, however seeing some of these comments I can fully understand why. Afraid to say, I can totally understand why some don't rehome to homes with young children, if the attitude of some owners with young children, should a problem such as a bite occur, is to kill the animal, rather than return it to the rescue.

Despite some posters here, there are many people (like myself, with no children in the house, including no visiting children) who are quite prepared and quite happy to work with dogs with a bite history. Given the history of one of mine biting, I'm extremely careful and vigilant on walks, and the dog in question, wears a red CAUTION coat, is on lead unless in a secure area (she has excellent recall) and any children (or adults!!) that try to approach are swiftly rebutted from a good distance. She has socialised with adults perfectly fine, only when they're been informed of her history prior to interaction, and that she could possibly be reactive. Thanks to these interactions she's more socialised and much more confident. There's been no incident. There are loving, responsible potential homes for these types of dogs. More than posters seem to think.

I genuinely wish your family and Bear the very best. There is no shame in sending him back if he bites and you cannot deal with it. If you feel you may be able to work with him, great. As I said before, it is quite jarring when the family pet bites you, it can actually feel deeply upsetting and hurtful, and leave us in shock. The human mind can understand rescuing a dog, trying to do a good deed, and what can feel betraying to be repaid like this. I went through the motions myself. Dogs, when they do lash out, often lash out at those close to them (redirected aggression is a thing).

Good luck at the vets - I hope it goes as OK as it can, and that the after effects with Bear, are manageable. x

scotscorner · 13/12/2022 12:16

PotatoScollop · 13/12/2022 01:03

I think it's extremely interesting you've stated that families seem to be having trouble with the dog at the 3 month mark. This is the point in time when rescue dogs start to properly begin settling into their home - and also when pushing boundaries and problem behaviours tend to show. Note, I do not mean your dog is settling into the problem behaviour of biting.

Firstly, dogs never bite for no reason. Only a veterinarian or a qualified animal behaviourist could properly help you figure out what the reason is/was. Whilst I appreciate you've tried to be quite thorough in your post, the detail surrounding the actual events, and more importantly, the lead up to, is not nearly specific enough to begin to guess. When I say lead up to, I don't just mean that day. Look back over the past week or so & and have a really good think. A vet trip is an absolute must.

Secondly, get that dog off the couch and establish some boundaries. Once things have settled, and you've figured out what the problem is, you could potentially invite him onto the couch again from time to time, but you also need to have the 'down' command pretty established if so, and never allow him up unless invited into your space. I'm not diagnosing him with resource guarding, but if he does have an element of this, it is not always immediately obvious. Stress of feeling the need to protect a resource, like any stress, can build and build. The bite can come a week later, an hour later, later in the day. Not all dogs show clear signs until the bite. Or, the signs can be so subtle we don't notice until something happens and then we start to look closer (speaking from experience here).

Thirdly, you don't mention a crate. If you don't have one for him, do him a favour and get him one. Bare with me on this, precisely given his history with his crate. Get a cover for it (so it covers the back, sides and top). Make absolutely certain your child never approaches him whilst he's in it. At first thought, the idea of getting him a crate given his history of spending 12 hours a day in there for the first year of his life may make most people recoil in horror, but let's take a closer look. The early months of a dogs life is when they absorb the most. It is when they develop phobias, comforts, and socialise. What Bear learnt in his first year of life was that his crate was his home. For half the day, every single day. For a year. And for most dogs, whether they are crated for too long or not, that eventually brings a sense of security. If I'm correct in assuming from your post he doesn't have one, then he's gone and lost a big part of his life, his days, and his 'own space', completely. A bed, in an area of the house is not the same. He is still able to be approached in a bed. He can not really 'hide away' in a bed. There's not a single rescue dog I'd never offer an open crate to, at some point. Perhaps he's trying to establish where his place actually is, also. You need never shut the door of the crate. Or even actively encourage him to go in it. Pop it up, somewhere quiet, pop some items in that smell of him, leave the door open, with covers on, and leave it for a week or two.

I speak not as an expert, but as someone with two romanian rescue dogs - who have taught me more in that time than a lifetime of owning dogs. One whom had grown up in a kennel from at least 6-8 weeks old, for several years, barely socialised with people, and had never seen the inside of a house. The more affectionate dog, the more eager to please of the two, yet also the dog that bit me. It hasn't happened since, but I had to seriously get real with my knowledge of dogs, the psychology of traumatised dogs, phobias, lack of confidence and socialisation. The other a former street dog, very socialised with people, but came with a host of her issues, food and people guarding being just one.

In fact, I've just dug my crates out of the shed after over a year of them not being in the house. The dogs within 3 days, are calmer and more at ease already. The doors are open. They choose when they want peace. And we're a quiet 2 adult no child household.

Good luck, I wish you the best. I hope you and your daughter are okay. It can be quite jarring when the family pet bites you, I know firsthand. But with some factfinding and reading more into things, you then start to understand them better. Please do supervise your daughter whenever she is around the dog, at the moment, which I'm sure you already are.

Excellent post 👏🏻 👏🏻 👏🏻

Claudia84 · 13/12/2022 12:28

Hope the appointment went okay.
Just reiterating that I'm sure you know - dogs don't bite out of the blue. Even with my v friendly dog I can see he doesn't like being touched without specifically inviting it so I hate seeing family members stroking him when he's lying next to them. I just want to shout leave him alone!
He might have been giving subtle signs up to the point he snapped and she just wouldn't have noticed them.
You know your dog. Be an advocate for him as well as your daughter.
Just sharing this here (again you sound like you know what you're doing but more for anyone that has children and dogs they should watch this). It's a short video about children and issues with dogs.

MontyK · 13/12/2022 12:35

He's come from an abusive home, so it may be that his previous owner used to startle him awake, they may have been rough with him pulling him off the sofa, grabbing at his head etc - god knows what has gone on in the past but I would say this particular trigger should be an easy enough one to address. No more sleeping on the sofa and don't ever touch him when he's asleep.

However, you might find that he now has a negative association towards your daughter and may be more inclined to act aggressively towards her in the future so I would keep a very close eye on that. Essentially she doesn't approach him for a good while now, he must go to her on his terms.

picnicshicnic · 13/12/2022 13:15

Shame on that first owner.

They have caused this.

Poor dog Sad

Middledazedted · 13/12/2022 14:35

I think quite often the rescue can manage the truth a bit. I don’t think all is lost though. One of mine bit me twice - she would again in the right circumstances but I don’t let those circumstances happen. She has been lovely but needs clear handling. Have had others who would never bite. It’s a spectrum and you are still early days. At least yours doesn’t have a big bite!

SeveruslyFrazzled · 13/12/2022 15:05

How did the vet go OP?

Original poster
CaraVann · 13/12/2022 16:47

The vet thinks Bear has an ear infection. It was very traumatic for him as the vet is obviously one of his triggers. He allowed the vet to muzzle him but went frantic when he tried looking deeper in the ear so we have to go again tomorrow and he will sedate him.
I truly hope this may be the cause of the out of character behaviour yesterday.
I’m not ready to give up on him, the rescue centres are jam packed with poor dogs who’s humans have let them down.
The vet also recommended a local behaviour specialist, I will contact her tomorrow.

OP posts:
Original poster
CaraVann · 13/12/2022 16:48

Thank you all, again, for your advise.

OP posts:
CrotchetyQuaver · 13/12/2022 17:02

Hate to say it, but it may be something fundamentally wrong with him that can't be cured.
The signs are there, he's been through quite a few homes in his short life.
I had one like this, (also a rescue) and we tried everything, but sadly to no avail. After he put one of my DD in hospital from a face bite, he went back to the rescue with full honest disclosure of everything in his time with us and they found someone (one of the fosterers) prepared to take him in. He was PTS a couple of weeks later. It made me very sad, but was for the best for him. I reclaimed his body from the vets and buried him in my garden.

LiesDoNotBecomeUs · 13/12/2022 17:22

Ear infection sounds a likely reason-a sudden head touch would hurt and the pain would be frightening.

It makes sense that he put himself back in his crate later. He needed a safe place.

Not all dogs are the same. Terriers are more bity. Their snapping isn't always a sign of something more serious.

Newuser82 · 13/12/2022 17:39

I did wonder about an ear infection actually from your description of everything (vet nurse). That would be an excellent outcome although I think contacting a behaviourist is important moving forward to help with his anxiety. Maybe combined with vet for meds if needed. Good luck and please update?

Girliefriendlikespuppies · 13/12/2022 17:48

Yeah I wondered if it was his ears, my terrier (same cross) has had a nasty ear infection and the only outward sign was increased grumpiness towards other dogs.

My terrier also hates the vet!

Will add a pic as you mentioned you thought he might have spaniel in him but a jrt cross yorkie do look a bit spanielly even though they're not.

Our rescue dog bit my daughter and I today.
hedgehoglurker · 13/12/2022 17:56

Thanks for updating. Please do come back when you have more news. My youngest rescue (of 3) was also kept for his first 15m in similar conditions to Bear. He's coming on in leaps and bounds in his 4 months with us so far, but your thread is reminding me that we shouldn't be complacent and should appreciate his progress more. Really hoping that your family feels safe enough to continue supporting Bear.

Original poster
CaraVann · 13/12/2022 18:37

CrotchetyQuaver I really hope that isn’t the case with Bear and it is as simple as the ear infection. We lost our beloved dog in the summer, the thought of having to pts another dog so soon is beyond my thoughts right now. The rescue specialises in rehoming dogs with guarding and bite issues, there would be no reason for them not to disclose this in his original bio, all the other dogs bio’s state how many biting incidents there have been etc. He also hasn’t been rehomed many times, he has lived with his original owner, ourselves and the couple who had him between April-July this year but they apparently just could not handle his anxiety so returned him.
Newuser82 I am really keeping my fingers crossed. I’ll contact the behavioural expert and hopefully will work with her after Christmas.
Girliefriendlikespuppies Aww, such a cutie.
Thank you hedgehoglurker A situation like yesterday definitely brings home that Bear is a rescue and we need to treat him a bit differently from our previous dog and he is a work in progress. As a family, we have all agreed that we don’t want to give up on him yet, hopefully never. Just hope after the treatment for the ear infection he will carry on progressing well as he had been before yesterday.

OP posts:
TabithaTittlemouse · 13/12/2022 18:53

@CaraVann I hope that’s the answer and that it’s easily sorted.

AlwaysGinPlease · 13/12/2022 18:59

There. He's in pain. To those who were so keen for the OP to get rid of him- you're ridiculous and I really hope you don't have dogs.

dolor · 13/12/2022 19:41

AlwaysGinPlease · 13/12/2022 18:59

There. He's in pain. To those who were so keen for the OP to get rid of him- you're ridiculous and I really hope you don't have dogs.

Yep, this. 100%

People are grumpy when they are in pain, so it stands to reason a dog will be, and they HIDE most of it until it's too much.

MontyK · 13/12/2022 19:55

Even if he does have an ear infection you still need to be really cautious. Nobody can say for sure what made him snap. It's not like he's been in a loving stable home from puppyhood, he's had a lot of trauma and it's almost to be expected that he might do something like this at some stage, especially as he's been returned once before.

dolor · 13/12/2022 19:57

MontyK · 13/12/2022 19:55

Even if he does have an ear infection you still need to be really cautious. Nobody can say for sure what made him snap. It's not like he's been in a loving stable home from puppyhood, he's had a lot of trauma and it's almost to be expected that he might do something like this at some stage, especially as he's been returned once before.

Oh for goodness sake.

I'm sure the OP knows this, give her some credit.

sneezingpandamum · 13/12/2022 20:10

Just on the rescue front and disclosure....have you used the rescue before? Do you trust them? A friend of mine returned a rescue dog that bit her young child unprovoked....i then saw the dog up for rehoming again on the rescue page and it's social media page saying the dog was suitable to be rehomed with young children.....when i commented to say that this was misleading and dangerous my posts were removed...so my point is rescues can and do lie or conveniently only give you half the truth.

Original poster
CaraVann · 13/12/2022 20:39

Thanks to everyone who suggested it could be an ear infection.
MontyK I am hopeful we can work with a behaviourist to help recognise the signs etc and prevent this happening again.
Thank you dolor 😊
sneezingpandamum I haven’t used them before. I did as much research as I could and they seemed to be a much loved rescue. They have a Facebook page which is constantly updated and it shows each adopter with their dog, they also have a Facebook ‘after adoption’ support group which I joined and they have many happy members who update regularly. The behaviourist they use (I understand she has no connection to the rescue), is very helpful and will answer my questions at any time via messenger. I have had 2 telephone conversations with her, one was for 4 hours and the second was for 2 hours, no charge for either. Unfortunately, she is on the other side of the country to me, otherwise I would go see her. I really hope they haven’t misled us but as I mentioned before, they have many dogs who have guarding or bite history and they make that plain on each dogs bio and history. Most of their dogs are not suitable for households with children under 12, many under 18, they state this. Bears bio said he had no bite history, no guarding history and was fine for families with children over 10. I really hope they hadn’t lied.

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 13/12/2022 20:47

@CaraVann where are you in the country?I'm in Yorkshire with an excellent behaviourist if that's within striking distance for some in person sessions. Happy to pm you her details 😊

Newuser82 · 13/12/2022 21:07

CaraVann · 13/12/2022 20:39

Thanks to everyone who suggested it could be an ear infection.
MontyK I am hopeful we can work with a behaviourist to help recognise the signs etc and prevent this happening again.
Thank you dolor 😊
sneezingpandamum I haven’t used them before. I did as much research as I could and they seemed to be a much loved rescue. They have a Facebook page which is constantly updated and it shows each adopter with their dog, they also have a Facebook ‘after adoption’ support group which I joined and they have many happy members who update regularly. The behaviourist they use (I understand she has no connection to the rescue), is very helpful and will answer my questions at any time via messenger. I have had 2 telephone conversations with her, one was for 4 hours and the second was for 2 hours, no charge for either. Unfortunately, she is on the other side of the country to me, otherwise I would go see her. I really hope they haven’t misled us but as I mentioned before, they have many dogs who have guarding or bite history and they make that plain on each dogs bio and history. Most of their dogs are not suitable for households with children under 12, many under 18, they state this. Bears bio said he had no bite history, no guarding history and was fine for families with children over 10. I really hope they hadn’t lied.

I would be very surprised if they had lied. Having worked with a charity revoking dogs previously it would have been out of the question to lie in any way as if it had have come out then it would leave you in so much trouble legally. They were so careful about rehoming for this reason although I do appreciate all rescues are different. There are many many dogs to rehome and without being too harsh there are some that just won't cope with it so you have to make tough decisions in order to protect the re homing family but yes, also the dog itself. You have a probable cause for the behaviour and a plan going forward so try to relax and go back to enjoying your little friend.

Newuser82 · 13/12/2022 21:08

Rehoming, not revoking 🙈