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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Our rescue dog bit my daughter and I today.

150 replies

CaraVann · 12/12/2022 19:06

3 months ago we rescued our dog, Bear.
He was born November 2020. Original owner got him at 7 weeks (I’ve worked out he was a Christmas dog!), it was also during lockdown, when the owner returned to work she crated him for 12 hours every day, she lived in a flat with no garden and never took Bear out, ever.
I believe the owner surrendered him to the rescue when he was about 12 months old.
The rescue worked hard on him as he was scared of the outside world and even putting a harness on him was hard work. They have done such great work with him but he will always be a very anxious dog, bless him.
He was adopted earlier this year, the couple had him for 3 months then gave him back. I was told by the rescue this was because they gave him a lickimat, he bit some of it off and swallowed a piece, he had to go to the vet to induce vomiting and apparently reverted back to his early days as the vets is one of his anxiety triggers and the couple couldn’t handle it, apparently.
So he was returned to the rescue, spent a few more months there and we adopted him early September.
He has been with us for 3 months.
We have had a few settling in issues with him but none of them major. The main things have been him weeding and pooing in the house, being scared of cars, scared of the vacuum cleaner, ripping things up (cushions/throws etc) and barking a lot for food/attention etc.
All these things have been ok to deal with as he has always been a happy and friendly dog, never shown aggression towards us, other people or other dogs.
He is so happy and bouncy that I often say he is like Tigger on speed!
I walk him at least twice a day, on the same field opposite my house.
As per the advice from the rescue and the behaviourist they use, we have kept his world small, just the local walks, just us family. We are a quiet family ( dc are 14 and 17), so no loud noises or lots of people coming and going.
All has been fine and he has been slowly settling into a good routine.
He was barking quite a bit in the evenings but for the last few weeks he has started to settle well and sits and snoozes on the sofa, in between dh and I, very cuddly and happy.
He has always been bouncy and happy and adores DH the most, he is definitely his favourite but seems to like us all.

However, today for some reason something changed.

Today he bit my dd and myself and I am not sure why.

The day started off well. Dh and I took him for a lovely walk over the field. We came home and he pottered around the house as usual then I popped out for a few hours. When I got home he was fine and greeted me happily as usual.
Dd came home from school and he sat next to her snoozing on the sofa, again, as usual.
Then dd touched his head, nothing abnormal there and he suddenly snapped and bit her on the hand. She was obviously shocked. I came in the room and sat with them both and stroked him. He seemed ok but looked a bit guilty. He then went for her again! Dd went upstairs to her room and we left him to settle.
A bit later (around half and hour) he came into the kitchen where I had been and I put my hand out gently to him (again, I’ve done this endless times and he has never shown any aggression towards me before this), he snarled/snapped suddenly and bit my thumb, drawing blood.
He now seems very wary of me for some reason, I don’t know why. He has always been so friendly and happy with us. I am quite shocked tbh as I can’t see what may have provoked this.
I don’t understand why he would do this after 3 months.
He had seemed fine all day, seems ok health wise.

Nothing today was out of routine other than DH was here this morning and didn’t go to work at 6.30am as usual, he is on sifts this winter and went to work at 1pm instead. But that is no different from the weekends when we all separately come and go.

Does anyone have any idea why he would turn on dd and I today?

OP posts:
loopylou3030 · 12/12/2022 23:03

This happened to a friend years ago. Said this labrador was the most gentle dog. Once day it just went for him for no reason. He took it to the vet the next day and it turned out he had a brain tumour 😪

Janieread · 12/12/2022 23:04

I've had dogs all my life, including many terriers. They are perfectly at liberty to come onto the sofa if they wish but all have their own spaces they can go to if they want their own time. None of them have ever, ever bitten. Dh says if any of ours bite us or the kids, and not for any obvious reason, they'd go immediately. Clearly this little dog bit the last family as well. Poor little chap but I think you are a bit mad keeping him.

StarDolphins · 12/12/2022 23:05

I got my dog when he was 2 & he’s the softest most amazing 10 year old now!

i am his absolute fave (just like your DH) & although never bit. If he was sat on the sofa with me & my ex came near, he would snarl & bark at him. Like, really turned into a different dog. It was to do with where he saw himself in the pack apparently & was protective of me. We were told to not have him on the sofa etc. he sleeps on my bed & sofa etc but ge knows I’m the boss! Not that I boss him around or anything! He doesn’t do it now & hasn’t for years. So could benefit from a behaviourist if not pain. It’s still early days for him after 3 months.

My Mum’s rescue but her twice (different occasions) & both times it was pain - she had something wrong with her stomach & her ear.

Good luck, he sounds lovely otherwise.

StarDolphins · 12/12/2022 23:06

In fact, he did bite! My ex woke him from his sleep to take him for last wees & he bit him!! That was many years ago now!

OrlandointheWilderness · 12/12/2022 23:10

Your DC are old enough to understand not to startle him and to give him space, they aren't toddlers. I think you need to not let him on the sofa and start establishing boundaries. He needs rules in place the same as any dog, and I know there is sometimes a tendency to be overly lenient to rescue dogs with a bad history but the rules obviously make them feel secure. You sit on the sofa, he doesn't.

senior30 · 12/12/2022 23:11

CaraVann · 12/12/2022 19:33

I will definitely get him to the vet and get him checked out. I will call them tomorrow.
I really hope it’s a one off and for a reason as I would hate to have to return him after this time, he has been so happy and friendly up until now.
Has anyone had a dog bit the once and never do it again.
I am now concerned that he may do it again. I will chat with the vet.
The only concern is that he hates cars and vets so it will be a huge task to get him there.

It sounds like he’s in pain OP, but rescues can be so sensitive to things. I’ve had mine for 6 years, something going wrong early in the morning causes her a full day of anxiety, shaking, screeching and cowering from us. Sadly it’s not something that will ever leave her, I think he’s either been really startled by DD stroking him or it’s caused him pain. The snapping at you could then be fear that he’s in trouble (you can never know how he was disciplined previously) so protecting himself.

I’ve had one dog who bit me and never again, I ended up at A&E with the bite it was awful. It was so out of character, turned out that he was in pain and the way I had rested on him had caused intense pain. He never bit again until he died years later. Please be open to not giving up on her yet, even though mumsnet will tell you to get rid ASAP.

TenoringBehind · 12/12/2022 23:14

loopylou3030 · 12/12/2022 23:03

This happened to a friend years ago. Said this labrador was the most gentle dog. Once day it just went for him for no reason. He took it to the vet the next day and it turned out he had a brain tumour 😪

This is exactly what happened with my first springer spaniel. He was just 5 years old.

Cactusprick · 12/12/2022 23:22

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CaraVann · 12/12/2022 23:26

Hopefully the vet will be able to see him tomorrow (although how I will get him in the car is a whole other story) and give him a through examination.
I am clinging onto the positive stories on here and trying not to re-read the ones telling me we are crazy not to return him right now, they had me in tears. How can I just give up on him so quickly? The rescue assured me he had no bite history at all and had shown none whilst in their care. They specialise in dogs with behavioural and bite history and it’s clearly marked on each dogs bio, Bear didn’t have this on his bio, he came to them because of his high anxiety due to his isolation from aa small pup. Surely they wouldn’t have lied about that? He is very high energy, probably due to his anxiety which has been getting better and better over the weeks, I assumed the previous couple returned him because of this high energy behaviour, I hope so.
I truly hope there is a reason for todays behaviour, one we can work on.
He has settled down really well this evening and showing no signs of agitation or an unsettled behaviour. We let him be and he’s snoozed all evening.
I will pop him in the kitchen now to go to bed and hopefully will get this sorted tomorrow.
Thank you all for your advice and experiences.

OP posts:
CaraVann · 12/12/2022 23:30

Really Cactusprick, I start a thread (typed hurriedly and quickly on my phone) because I need advice on something I found very traumatic and upsetting today and your ‘advice’ is to pick me up on my grammar. Jeez, thanks.

OP posts:
PotatoScollop · 13/12/2022 01:03

I think it's extremely interesting you've stated that families seem to be having trouble with the dog at the 3 month mark. This is the point in time when rescue dogs start to properly begin settling into their home - and also when pushing boundaries and problem behaviours tend to show. Note, I do not mean your dog is settling into the problem behaviour of biting.

Firstly, dogs never bite for no reason. Only a veterinarian or a qualified animal behaviourist could properly help you figure out what the reason is/was. Whilst I appreciate you've tried to be quite thorough in your post, the detail surrounding the actual events, and more importantly, the lead up to, is not nearly specific enough to begin to guess. When I say lead up to, I don't just mean that day. Look back over the past week or so & and have a really good think. A vet trip is an absolute must.

Secondly, get that dog off the couch and establish some boundaries. Once things have settled, and you've figured out what the problem is, you could potentially invite him onto the couch again from time to time, but you also need to have the 'down' command pretty established if so, and never allow him up unless invited into your space. I'm not diagnosing him with resource guarding, but if he does have an element of this, it is not always immediately obvious. Stress of feeling the need to protect a resource, like any stress, can build and build. The bite can come a week later, an hour later, later in the day. Not all dogs show clear signs until the bite. Or, the signs can be so subtle we don't notice until something happens and then we start to look closer (speaking from experience here).

Thirdly, you don't mention a crate. If you don't have one for him, do him a favour and get him one. Bare with me on this, precisely given his history with his crate. Get a cover for it (so it covers the back, sides and top). Make absolutely certain your child never approaches him whilst he's in it. At first thought, the idea of getting him a crate given his history of spending 12 hours a day in there for the first year of his life may make most people recoil in horror, but let's take a closer look. The early months of a dogs life is when they absorb the most. It is when they develop phobias, comforts, and socialise. What Bear learnt in his first year of life was that his crate was his home. For half the day, every single day. For a year. And for most dogs, whether they are crated for too long or not, that eventually brings a sense of security. If I'm correct in assuming from your post he doesn't have one, then he's gone and lost a big part of his life, his days, and his 'own space', completely. A bed, in an area of the house is not the same. He is still able to be approached in a bed. He can not really 'hide away' in a bed. There's not a single rescue dog I'd never offer an open crate to, at some point. Perhaps he's trying to establish where his place actually is, also. You need never shut the door of the crate. Or even actively encourage him to go in it. Pop it up, somewhere quiet, pop some items in that smell of him, leave the door open, with covers on, and leave it for a week or two.

I speak not as an expert, but as someone with two romanian rescue dogs - who have taught me more in that time than a lifetime of owning dogs. One whom had grown up in a kennel from at least 6-8 weeks old, for several years, barely socialised with people, and had never seen the inside of a house. The more affectionate dog, the more eager to please of the two, yet also the dog that bit me. It hasn't happened since, but I had to seriously get real with my knowledge of dogs, the psychology of traumatised dogs, phobias, lack of confidence and socialisation. The other a former street dog, very socialised with people, but came with a host of her issues, food and people guarding being just one.

In fact, I've just dug my crates out of the shed after over a year of them not being in the house. The dogs within 3 days, are calmer and more at ease already. The doors are open. They choose when they want peace. And we're a quiet 2 adult no child household.

Good luck, I wish you the best. I hope you and your daughter are okay. It can be quite jarring when the family pet bites you, I know firsthand. But with some factfinding and reading more into things, you then start to understand them better. Please do supervise your daughter whenever she is around the dog, at the moment, which I'm sure you already are.

Afreshstar · 13/12/2022 01:05

Aquamarine1029 · 12/12/2022 19:09

Does anyone have any idea why he would turn on dd and I today?

Honestly, the why doesn't matter. You cannot keep this dog in your home.

Exactly

PotatoScollop · 13/12/2022 01:17

Sorry, just to add. (Long posts I know but I'm trying to be as helpful as I can).

High energy is a sign (and outlet) of anxiousness and stress. A high energy 'bouncy' dog is not balanced. I'm not talking about a bit of normal anticipated excitement, and I don't think you are either. Learnt this one the hard way - don't encourage the bouncy behaviour. From now on just encourage and reward the calm.

Dogs do take a while for stress hormone levels to go down. It can be days or a week or two. In my case with my dog, a vet trip caused funky ass behaviour for a week solid before she chilled out. She otherwise seemed fine. But would exhibit what seemed to be extremely random, weird new behaviours now and then. In the case where more insidious triggers are causing the stress, such as a no proper place to hide, or feeling the need to resource guard, or even just not knowing how to behave in certain situations - because these triggers are often ongoing (ie they don't go away) the stress not only can mount over weeks or months, but it can worsen, as the stress hormones are not going down, and the dog becomes more stressed as a result.

The advice you received regarding not overstimulating the dog with new walking areas is probably a good one just now, in fact, I'd probably reduce it to once a day and observe (too many walks can actually be too stimulating for some dogs! The 'too many' is individual to the actual dog) but there needs to be balance. What enrichment are you providing? Are you introducing new toys, games, or food based enrichment to help him build his confidence, and observing how he handles this in the hours and days that follow? Does he have enough mental stimulation at home? What is triggering his barking in the evenings? How do you and the family react? How are you combating him destroying household items - what other outlets does he have? Again can be a sign of frustration and/or anxiety.

This was a very (albeit forced) reclusive dog in his previous life. The 2 walks may be a bit much. As many other things in his life at the moment. Remember, this kind of stuff builds up.

PotatoScollop · 13/12/2022 01:34

Lastly. Can you be 100% certain, no one in the household has hit his face?

I'm not accusing. It is only one possibility of many. But if the vet rules a medical issue out, the fact he seems to be suddenly 'headshy' is a red flag. Have you had a visitor recently? I know we don't like to think of our family ever physically hitting our pets, but honestly, I feel it must be considered, even just partly. When I was younger I had a step sibling I never would have thought would hit a dog, they were a passionate animal lover. Loved dogs.. Never in a million years. Until I witnessed her (I was in the room, preoccupied with something, whilst she was stroking and fussing the dog - that much I'd seen prior to getting distracted) slapping the dog in the face, repetitively and quickly, when I had turned around when she was not expecting it. Not hard enough for there to be a noise from the slapping, light, repetitive slaps in quick succession precisely designed so they couldn't be heard whilst my back was turned, just an extremely unpleasant, and horrific odd type of abuse. It was the most bizarre thing I think I've ever witnessed. The dog was just sat in front of them.

We can often be surprised.

AnnieSnap · 13/12/2022 01:52

@CaraVann I hope the vet can give you an explanation that helps tomorrow. How has he been over the course of the evening?

happyfrogs · 13/12/2022 03:55

If he was born in 2020 he's reaching maturity now, neutered or not. Alot of behavioural problems will come out at this age, especially aggression and things that make him act like a dog and not a puppy. Combined with him reaching the stage where he's decompressed and made himself comfortable in your home, this might just be his nature through being neglected as a puppy and a genetic inclination towards it. I haven't read the full thread but what breed is he?

I'd have to say pts honestly even if it seems like jumping the gun a bit, and I say this as the owner of a rehomed lurcher who has explosive aggression issues and bit me several times in our first year together when she got over threshold with other dogs. A dog that's biting you when you're calmly petting it or it's sleeping is dangerous because you don't know when it's going to happen next, there isn't any heightened emotions he's reacting to, and once/if a dog has bit it will probably bite again, that's why I'm wondering the breed, because if it's a lhasa apso it's not going to cause serious damage to you and your older children.

Zodiacsigns · 13/12/2022 03:58

how can I get rid of him so soon?

Because it's your DC home too, it should be their safe space, somewhere they can relax. They shouldn't have to tiptoe round a bitey dog.

You're minimising by asking for stories of people who's dogs bit once then never again, yours has already bitten three times. Even if it's caused by pain, do you want a dog that bites every time it's in pain?

There was no bite history on the bio, surely they wouldn't lie about that?

They wouldn't be the first. It's more common than you'd think. Also, just because the rescue have no bite history doesn't mean he doesn't have one. The other two people who had him could have lied about the reason for giving him to the rescue, worried that the rescue wouldn't take him if they knew he'd bitten. Some rescues have a no kill policy, this sometimes translates into only taking dogs they know they can rehome or not being honest with potential adopters about bite history because they "want to give the dog a chance and it only happened once". This dog has had a year(?) in total of training, after coming into the rescue twice. This isn't a minor training issue that can be fixed quickly.

The decision to PTS isn't a question of not understanding traumatised dogs. It's a matter of putting human life first, especially when the dog lives with minors and the dog owner's decisions affect them. It's hardly a kindness for the dog to be passed around various people who end up returning it to the rescue either.

Hope it goes ok at the vets tomorrow

Lostinasupermarket · 13/12/2022 04:10

He’s a beautiful boy - but what a terrible beginning he had. I’m so sorry you are going through this now and having to deal with the consequences of the first owner’s neglect and cruelty. I hope the vet can provide some answers or reassurance for you. He is lucky to have found you and your family I hope that, somehow, there is a way through for you all. X

Sindonym · 13/12/2022 04:28

I hope you are able to get him to the vet without too much distress for him OP.

My dog was the softest dog in the world but even he snapped when in pain. So definitely get that checked

hedgehoglurker · 13/12/2022 07:36

I think your instincts are right to try and help him, not reject him unless your dd is frightened of him now and wants him gone. Your children are virtually adults, not toddlers, as a pp said.

Hopefully, the vet check goes well and finds something that will be easily treated.

I also have a rescue Yorkie Jack Russell mix. She's so loving and can be feisty too. (I can recommend Wisdom Panel DNA testing if you decide to keep him and want to know more about his mix. We've tested all 3 of our rescues with some very surprising breed and close relative results.)

Wishing you well, whatever the outcome.

CaraVann · 13/12/2022 07:55

Thank you so much for your advise PotatoScollop I have wracked my brain and can not think of anything which may have set him off. I wonder if he had been in quite a deep sleep, laying next to dd and her touching him on the head jarred him from his sleep, frightened him and set him off. He maybe then went on to bite me 15 or so minutes later as a self protection thing as he may have still been in that moment? And I should have mentioned in my op, yes Bear does have a crate. It’s in the kitchen, in a quiet part of the room, covered and he will occasionally go in it (he actually retreated to it after the bite incident), he also has a mattress bed in the kitchen which he chooses to sleep on but the crate is there for him nonetheless. We do not go near his crate, it’s his safe area and under the advise of the behavioural lady the rescue had used, we do not shut the crate door due to his history with crates.

OP posts:
RHOShitVille · 13/12/2022 08:12

We have a rescue that went for DD if ever disturbed in her sleep around the 3 month mark. We stopped her sleeping on sofa and she went to bed in the kitchen, and was left alone. She soon learnt to take herself to bed when she'd had enough.

Didn't bite again and now she's an old lady she chooses to sleep with the humans and moves around the bed to accommodate various wriggles in the night.

The only other times she's gone for anyone has been when she's in a lot of pain and vet has confirmed within 24 hours that that's the case.

I'm glad we didn't get rid of her, but if she'd have bitten without me understanding the triggers I might have felt I had to.

CaraVann · 13/12/2022 08:19

PotatoScollop no one has hit him intentionally or accidentally (to my knowledge), he is a crazy dog though and I’m a bit concerned now that he may have hurt himself whilst running in the garden, although not showing any outward signs but obviously the vet will check this over.
He seemed absolutely fine all evening AnnieSnap and greeted me this morning as happy as he normally is.
He is a Yorkshire terrier/Jack Russell cross happyfrogs although I think he may be a Yorkshire terrier and something else. He is small/small medium. I can only think dd disturbed him from a deep sleep when she touched him on the head.
Zodiacsigns he hasn’t had a year with the rescue. He was surrendered end of last year/beginning of this. Then rehomed in April and returned around July. We then rehomed him in September. I totally understand what you are saying and I am in a complete quandary and if my children were primary school age I would have returned him but my dc are 17 and 14, often out and about and know to leave Bear alone atm.

Thank you everyone for your advice and help.
We have an appointment at 11.45 today so hopefully we can get him looked over. It will be traumatic for him as it’s one of his triggers apparently but I owe it to him to at least find out why this may have happened. Dd, ds and dh all want us to try this first.

OP posts:
IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 13/12/2022 08:55

Is it possible for you to get a local vet that does home visits? That will make it much easier for you and the dog.

RoseMadderAsHell · 13/12/2022 11:01

You've only had him 3 months so it's much too early for him to have learnt to fully trust you or DD given his background.
Dogs can see a hand reaching out towards their head, or being disturbed when sleeping/resting as a threat, particularly if they've been badly treated by previous owners. You can make sure to avoid doing this now you know he doesn't like it.