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The doghouse

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Need positive stories please

34 replies

itsarainyday · 14/11/2022 04:04

Apologies in advance for the long post. I need to get this off my chest as I feel too ashamed to admit some of these feelings to friends or other dog owners.

I have an almost 11 month old lab. First time dog owners but we've been diligent with training and enrichment since we got her at 8 weeks. Read all the books, including Total Recall, and joined lots of forums for training advice. We use positive reinforcement methods only.

She's a smart lab. Sit, stay, down, paw, leave it, drop it etc all mastered very quickly as well as some tricks. She has self discipline because she won't eat or go through a door until I've released her. This is relevant to know because it shows she is biddable and has self control.

Yet, still, our lab has not mastered loose leash walking. When she pulls like a train, it's exhausting. I can't let the kids ever walk her because she's too strong. She is getting there slowly and she's always fine after she's had her long walk so I know some of it is just the excitement and energy she needs to expend.

She also jumps on people, which is a habit we are trying to break. She doesn't do it at home as we've trained her not to. The hardest thing is training other people. Many encourage it and tell me "it's fine" after I've specifically asked them to ignore her unless she's calm and on four paws or sat. Or ignore what I say then get cross when she jumps as they've invited her up but haven't reckoned on the force of an enthusiastic dog. Consistency is key so this is a frustrating one as it relies on the other person listening to me as well! Walking past people isn't an issue. It's only if they give her even the tiniest bit of attention, she jumps.

The biggest frustration is that she is obsessed with other dogs and is a frustrated greeter. On lead, she'll lie down and wait for the other dog to approach. Or pulls like a train to get to them. When they get close she'll lunge (sometimes bark) at them desperate to play. Her recall and check ins are excellent if no other dogs about. If she sights or smells them, she's off. Her recall disappears and even when other dogs bark of snap as they don't like her boisterous puppy play, she doesn't get the hint. To her, everyone is her BFF! This is why she's on a long line still. As we live somewhere where we encounter dogs frequently, she's not going to come off it until her recall is solid around other dogs. We'll be starting gun dog training with her soon with a trainer in the hope that this improves her focus on us.

Not posting for training tips as we already have excellent advice on what we must do to train her out of this. To be clear, she isn't denied the opportunity to play with other dogs either. It's work in progress and training is unrelenting in these three areas. I know part of it is teenage years, puppy years and her being a breed that loves dogs and people (she isn't interested in the ball, retrieves or any toys at all). We are making some progress. It feels very slow and some days it feels like one step forward, one back. Deep down, I feel we can get there as I am seeing it improve VERY slowly to my mind. I'm simply frustrated and tired.

I'm posting to vent and hope this is a safe space to do so. There are days when I wonder whether she will ever change and this scares me as I don't want her on a long line forever or only be able to go off lead in secure fields I rent. I have read of labs that remain obsessed with other dogs even at 2+ years of age. I have been embarrassed so many times and sat in the car in tears after a couple of walks. I see other dogs that can calmly walk by and ignore dogs or quickly play then go back when recalled and I'm so envious. I'm even more envious when I ask owners for their tips and they say they had to do nothing! That their dogs have never been as interested in other dogs as mine even as puppies. Then I start to feel guilty and wonder if I over socialised her as a puppy. It also creates tension at home because DH isn't as consistent with me with the training.

I work as well and have kids so I am balancing a lot. Dog training has become another mental load. I know and expected to train the dog but it's been almost a year and it's the dog obsession that gets to me! I often wish for walks where she's off lead (when she's at her happiest to sniff and explore) and, well, it can just be a relaxing walk without me worrying she's going to jump on someone or run off and not come back as she's found a pack of dogs.

To clarify, she is extremely well loved and taken care of. We're deeply committed to training her to become the dog we want. She has many good points: otherwise very calm, sits happily in pubs and cafes with me, great with the kids and doesn't bark. Lots and lots of positive things.

Apologies for waffling. Sorry to vent. Please be kind.

What I would love to hear is if anyone has had a dog like this and have positive stories to tell of how they got through it. Then I can keep revisiting this thread when I am in need of encouragement to keep going with the training.

If you've made it this far, thank you.

OP posts:
SpringersLoveSofas · 14/11/2022 04:35

Only time will tell for sure but the dog you have at 11 months is often very different to the dog you have at 2 years and beyond.

Plus, if you persevere there is very little that cannot and will not be 'cured' in time.

Specifically for your situation: yes my current dog was rubbish at loose lead at 11 months. Now, walks simply and loosely by my side. If anything, it's more like me wanting to pull him because he's taking too long sniffing everything.

He still jumped up at some people at 11 months - those that encouraged it despite my warning. This stopped in time and with perseverance.

He was a nervous greeter. He barked and lunged. This one has not vanished totally and tbh, I would always still pop a lead back on him if we see another dog. But that is more a precaution than a necessity.

Mostly now we go though life without worrying too much if we see another dog. Lots of times, if we do bump into one its a quick hello and then on our way. Sometimes there is barking: when I've judged the distance wrong or not been able to achieve the distance he needs. But time also toughened me and it causes no emotional drama for me.

Take heart. Her 'problems' are common ones and likely to improve with time and training. And, you are likely to improve how you feel about them in time too. A kind of moulding happens: where you and she change in ways that make for an easier life together Wink

Ruizy · 14/11/2022 04:41

Has she had first season yet? Often this changes and calms them.

itsarainyday · 14/11/2022 06:24

@SpringersLoveSofas thank you for sharing your experience. Some good advice there and I'm glad you are able to walk your dog without worrying if you see another dog. In our case, it's more worrying when I can't see the dog! A couple of times, our labs' nose has gone in the air and she's smelled another dog then bolted ripping the long lead out of both hands!

@Ruizy no season or signs of her first season yet. We are debating whether to have her spayed soon. Originally, wanted to wait a season but the vet has said it's fine after a year even if she hasn't had a season. That spaying at 12 months won't affect her growth. We don't intend to breed her but as she does sometimes try to run away to find other dogs, I worry about unwanted pregnancies. She is on a long line or lead but the risk is still there as she's ripped it out of my hands before and it also means I daren't use dog walkers for now (though I really would like to once a week because I work).

OP posts:
Ruizy · 14/11/2022 07:47

I have a two year old female dog and lots of other dog walkers told me their dog changed and calmed down after first season. Like they graduate from puppy to adult. I was sceptical but it did seem that way. Also I met a friend who had a female lab the other day and she said there was a big change in her dog after first season. In face their dog was kind of known by everyone as the crazy bouncy pulling a lot dog. And it’s two now and really a different dog. She did also say she started her with a dog Walker and now she doesn’t make such a fuss when she sees other dogs as it is kind of out of her system as she sees her dog friends with her Walker. She now tends to focus on her ball a lot more on walks.

Ruizy · 14/11/2022 07:48

I would definitely let her have first season before spay , just for maturity reasons

Ruizy · 14/11/2022 07:51

I think you really will notice a big difference by two year old, if you keep plugging away at training. She sounds like there are loads of positives

picklemewalnuts · 14/11/2022 07:54

She's so young! You and she have done really well and are perhaps a touch unrealistic about your expectations.

Unfortunately she's a big strong dog, so you will feel everything!

I loved the spinning away and changing direction at speed method because it was easier for me- there wasn't the head to head about whose more determined, or strongest, just a quick change of focus. (I'm not Sharing it as a training tip, just explaining my feelings about it).

It's wearing being constantly 'on' as the dog trainer. Can you go somewhere less challenging occasionally for a rest? Somewhere she's allowed off, or there are no other dogs to manage her around?

thelobsterquadrille · 14/11/2022 08:04

I think your expectations for 11 months are a touch unrealistic - and I mean that in the kindest way possible!

She's nowhere close to being fully mature yet - you probably have a good 12-18 months to go before she's really an adult as labs in particular are slow to mature.

It's a long slog when they're that age, especially when they're big and strong - you forget how young they are - but persevere and in a year or so it will pay off and you should have a wonderful furry companion.

Idratherbepaddleboarding · 14/11/2022 08:06

We have a 1.5 year old lab and between 9-12 months he’s was a bloody nightmare. After he turned 1, he calmed right down and now he’s been neutered for a month, he’s the calmest, loveliest dog you’ll ever meet 🥰.

Dippydonky · 14/11/2022 08:26

You’re doing really well… it just takes time and I think the ‘problems’ are fairly normal. We have a rescue who was one when we got her, it took nearly a year to completely housetrain her (we adopted a teenager with zero training though! And she was very matted, nervous, unsocialised.. it took her 3 months to trust us.)…. I’m envious of the ease of your dog lol. Not really, ours is now 3 and she’s brilliant, and I gush with pride about how far she’s come: recall is fab even mid play, doesn’t chase runners or bikes anymore, loves balls, is fully fully housetrained! She’s also no longer terrified of puddles, other dogs, car travel or seeing busses! She’s actually travelled in a few busses too. And she knows sit, paw, lay down, high 5, stick em up/sit pretty, play dead, spin right, ‘wait’, go down (the stairs), bedtime, leave it, ‘no’, and probably loads more! But training her tricks was our ‘in’ with her, it focuses her mind and helps settle her (plus it involves food)… we needed to do the trick training to build the relationship for the ‘basic’ training (she had a caseworker at dogstrust, which I used a lot!)

If she’s 11months you’ve only had her for 9 months maximum… you’ll be teaching her new things her entire life, and when she’s an old lady you’ll miss this puppy exuberance! Maybe save your post and read it in a years time… and just think how much she’s learned in her fist 11 months of life, by comparison us humans take an eternity! She’s practically learned a second language from a completely different species while still a kid!

OllytheCollie · 14/11/2022 08:42

Solidarity. The teen years are tough. I try and remember the line only time can make a young dog an old dog when mine is being particularly annoying. Also it's like with kids, this too will pass and you will miss your goofy puppy who got excited about squirrels or leaves falling from trees when she's plodding along sedately. Even whilst you are hating this bit.

Hoppinggreen · 14/11/2022 08:45

Ddog was very similar to yours. Walking him was no fun.
He really matured from around 15 -18 months old and he’s absolutely great now

FanGurlll · 14/11/2022 10:49

I could have pretty much written your post a year ago...... DDog is now 23 months old. She walks nicely on lead (most of the time), and her recall is amazing 99% of the time. I do still scan what's going on around and only let her off in certain places as I want to set her up to succeed (and not practice unwanted behaviour), but I seriously never thought we'd be where we are today.

It has been hard work though, the recall training has been constant and is still ongoing. I would see other dogs off lead and despair of ever achieving it, but last week I was walking her and honestly I had tears in my eyes as her recall was fantastic.

We didn't see much change after her first season, and she's not spayed yet due to timing and we haven't had a second season yet. However, I think if you're putting the work in, around the age of 2 it all seems to come together. Our dog is a little smaller than yours, but a working breed and very strong willed. We're getting there - I'm sure you will too!

Toomanysleepycats · 14/11/2022 11:03

The best bit of advice I got was to use food as a training tool. If the dog is not interested in the food, it’s because it’s not exciting enough.

I was recommended mattesons garlic sausage for walks. The other thing I did for close leash training was to buy a tube of Primula cheese spread. Walk with it in your hand next to the dogs head, and squeeze a bit out every so often for the dog to lick direct from the tube.

Yes I know these are human foods with additives, but needs must and you don’t need to do lots.

I also told people to either turn round with their back to the dog, or stand with folded arms and bring their knee up if the dog jumps. Obviously you can’t do this all the time, but asking/telling a person to do something seems to work better than asking them to do nothing and wait.

You sound as if you are doing everything right, and perhaps are expecting too much. Your dog is still very very young.

Jimmini · 14/11/2022 11:05

Mine was an excellent puppy, and then from 10 months youve described him exactly. Recall as a pup was on point, but he is incredibly bold so everyone’s advice on getting him to look to you or all that shit just didn’t work. We’re now at 19 months and for the first time in 9 months we let him off the the longline this weekend. It’s been a long time and lots of consistency we’re now coming out the other side.
with other people I find when we’re walk past I say things like “keep walking past that naughty hand” if the stick their hand out or “just ignore them, they’re really boring” if you don’t have the manners to ask if you can pet my dog then you aren’t going to get manners back from me.
on the jumping at people I have really noticed a difference between real dog people and the self professed dog lovers but who don’t really have a clue- dog people will tell my dog to sit and put their hands down to his level so he doesn’t have to jump. The pain in the arse “dog lovers” will talk in a high voice get him excited and pull their hands up. I tend to take the approach if I think you are that sort you can’t say hello to my dog you do more harm than good.
for me it’s 90% management and preventing interactions. I see it as most people I past aren’t appropriate for my dog to greet so I teach him that these are to be ignored, it’s easier than trying to be the boring voice teaching calm when the stranger is encouraging “fun things”
on passing other dogs we are getting there he still wants to greet but as soon as we are level and there is no hello then he is back off doing his own thing- which gives me hope in another month or 2 we will have this cracked.
loose lead walking we cracked a few months ago.
anyway long answer and I know you didn’t want advice so I’m trying not to give any, but yes! You will get there!!!!

FrangipaniBlue · 14/11/2022 11:09

You could have written this about my DH, albeit a different breed!!

What I will say is that he is much better now at 4 years old...... he has the occasional lapse when he gets a bit over excited to greet people/dogs but that's usually reserved for ones he "knows" not strangers.

He will walk on a loose leash (but oh god for 3+ years he didn't!!) but definitely no off lead, that's something that we've just had to accept is reserved for empty enclosed spaces/fields!!!

FrangipaniBlue · 14/11/2022 11:09

Haha typo fail - about my dog not my DH!!!

autienotnaughty · 14/11/2022 11:10

My lab is nearly 2. Between 6-18 months I cried so much, it was so hard! He's so much better now. With regards to walking we use a canny collar it's amazing for pulling. We practiced off lead/recall in quiet places and just built it up. Food didn't really work for us but the ball does he's obsessed with it so it instantly brings him to heel. We can now walk past other dogs off lead and he is so good. The only time he slips is if a dog runs upto him and then he wants to play. Which is fine but with him being a big dog it means I am just a bit cautious near small dogs. Honestly he's lovely to walk now.

SarahSissions · 14/11/2022 11:28

@FrangipaniBlue i trained my dog more successfully than I’ve trained my DH

OllytheCollie · 14/11/2022 11:40

Oh should also say it's true dogs vary in how much interest they have in other dogs as puppies. But the vast majority of dogs calm down to pretty even tempered around dogs when mature, some are reactive and a few always want to initiate play throughout their lives (we have a neighbour with a ten year old sprocker like this, it's like taking a sack of frogs for a walk every single day). So the dog owners you meet who say their dogs were a bit more chill as puppies are telling the truth but it doesn't mean you have done anything wrong, puppies just vary. My BC is like your dog v keen on other dogs and puzzled if they don't want to play. I know it won't be long before she's the old girl plodding along doing an Important Job and ignoring the puppy trying to get her attention.

FrangipaniBlue · 14/11/2022 12:40

@SarahSissions 😂😂😂

FanGurlll · 14/11/2022 13:04

One more thing, I know you don't want advice, but re the loose lead walking, one thing that really helped us was using a double ended lead on a 2 point harness. Maybe you've tried this already, but if not maybe have a google.
Either way, loose lead walking is pretty hard to master, slowly, gradually, you will make progress!

Changerazelea · 14/11/2022 13:14

Just to say I really feel for you. DD is around the same age and we have only managed loose lead walking with a figure of 8 lead/halti style head collar. I resisted it for ages until I got a severe repetitive strain injury in my lead arm! It took a while to get her used to it however walks are now a pleasant experience. Our DD also jumped a lot we went with the "only pet your dog when it's calm" and seeing some progress with that. Keep the faith your DD wil get there x

Autumn101 · 14/11/2022 17:40

Solidarity from a fellow 11 month old pup parent!

Mine is the loveliest dog ever and I adore him but frankly his loose lead walking is atrocious at times 😂 I just am keeping on plugging away with the training for on lead. It is disheartening when I see other dogs doing it so much better than him but there’s things he probably does better, swings and roundabouts I guess.

Jumping up at us is starting to calm down too just recently, he is just so full of energy and excitement (he’s a springer) it’s so hard for him not to get carried away!

I have a great trainer and we’ve worked a lot on calming games and reinforcing steadiness and it is really improving. I know he is going to be a fantastic dog, he is now really, just needs time and patience

certainshepherdpups · 14/11/2022 19:05

@itsarainyday my dog is about six months older than yours. There is hope, I promise! When mine was 10 months old he went through an adolescent phase that was a shock to the system. He had a couple of incidents of destructive chewing, which had never, ever happened before. And he became rather pointedly selectively deaf, ignoring just about every word he knew perfectly well. But around his first birthday, he seemed to mature remarkably. He is now an absolute delight in nearly every respect. The one issue we are still working on is jumping up, but he has shown marked improvement lately. In every other way he is wonderful.

I think to some extent training really depends on the dog's willingness to comply with what is asked. For instance, my dog has always been very good at loose lead walking. But I am not deluded enough to think that is due to my prowess as a trainer. 😁 He just responded to the training. Other people could use exactly the same training techniques and still struggle. And of course, time helps. They do grow up and become less impulsive and more able to listen to what their owner says.

Sending you strength vibes to weather the adolescent puppy stage. And some virtual wine: 🍷

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