How do I protect my small dog from irresponsible dog owners who can’t control their dogs

[Rinoachicken]

I have a small dog. She’s a chug. She is usually on the lead for walks - mainly because her recall is not 100% so she has to stay on a long lead, or the extending lead, depending on where we are walking. But increasingly I keep her on the lead as it’s the best way to keep her safe from out of control off lead dogs.

She’s well socialised, not afraid of other dogs, and is not dog reactive.

But because she is small herself she prefers to socialise and play with dogs her own size or similar. We have got to know a few local ones and if it’s safe to do so we let them off lead and they have a great time playing safely.

Dogs much larger she will hang back from and avoid, but if they approach (because they are off lead and the owner isn’t around or is clueless) she will sniff greet but then she wants to just move on and I can tell by her body language that she is wary. She ‘freezes’, her tail is down her ears back, super submissive ‘please just sniff me and then go!’

Even if she’s keen I don’t always allow her to play if the size difference is too great - it’s just common sense - she’s at risk of being hurt accidentally. Spaniel size is the limit unless I know the dog well.

But I am SO SO fed up of the increasing number of irresponsible dog owners who let their dogs run around off the lead WITH NO RECALL. Their dogs come charging up to me and my dog and are straight in her face.

The owner is half way across the field either not even looking or powerless and not even bothered to do anything.

We had an incident like this yesterday where I was walking her on lead, minding our own business. Saw an off lead lab up ahead. Labs are too big to be safe playmates for my dog. Lab sees us and comes charging over and is immediately on top of my dog. I could see it was young, and it was in ‘play’ mode - but my dog did not want to play, and was trying to get away.

Owner called her dog when it first set off towards us and of course it completely ignored her. I expected her to then come and get it - but no! She just turns around and starts watching her kid in the park instead.

Mine is now tying herself up in knots between my legs trying to get away from the dog that seems to want to pick her up in it’s mouth. I yell at the woman to get control of her dog - she looks at me all dumbfounded ‘what?’.

Then my dog yelped so I’m afraid I lost my temper and yelled louder ‘come and get your fucking dog!’

She then scuttled over and put her dog on the lead. I said to her ‘if your dog doesn’t come back when you call them it shouldn’t be off the lead’ and started to walk off. She didn’t even apologise or ask if my dog was ok. I then hear her say TO HER DOG ‘see X, what have I told you’

I turned back and said it’s not the dogs fault - it’s your fault! You’re the owner!

It’s just so irresponsible. Why do some dog owners seem to think they have the right to put my dog in danger? It would only take one bite and she’d be dead. It should be up to me to decide which dogs she will be around and when - not for other owners who aren’t even physically there half the time and probably have no idea of her size before they let their much larger dog barrel into her. It’s the equivalent of letting a 16yr old have a wrestling match with a 4yr old.

I don’t care if you think your dog is friendly and it ‘just wants to say hello’. If it doesn’t come back when you call it then it is NOT under your control. You need to train it better or keep it on a lead. End of. I’m DONE with feeble excuses and apologies, entitlement and faux hurt feelings because I’ve dared to call them out on their lax and irresponsible attitude to dog ownership.

Im just so fed up with it. It’s happening more and more. I’ve now ordered a dog deterrent spray so I have some additional defence for me and my dog. And of course there’s always my boot (I have big heavy toe capped boots for dog walking).

I feel you OP. My dog is dog reactive. He's walked on a lead. I have no idea why anyone would allow their dog to come up to a dog on a lead. Completely irresponsible owners.

If it's a small dog that comes over to mine, I would pick him up. If it's a big dog, like you say, it's scary. If I pick him up (if I'm quick enough) they sometimes jump up at him, scaring him even more.

It isn't hard to put your dog on a lead when you see a dog on a lead approaching. And if your dog is off the lead, their recall should mean that they are trusted not to approach a dog on a lead and come back before they get too near to the other dog.

@mistlethrush

In fact, my dog has recently made friends with a chihuahua and it's tiny puppy friend - and again plays beautifully despite the size difference, so please don't let 'size' be the defining issue - yes, do understand the owner and the dog before you make this choice though!

She has played safely with larger dogs, but like you said only dogs I know well.

Which is kind of my point - I should be able to make the choice about when and what dogs my dog is in close contact with.

That choice should not be taken away by random dog owners who have no control of their dogs.

I am not disputing that there are some dogs that are a problem. But you are suggesting that you are constantly finding dogs want to play and won't go away. My dog NEVER wants to play. I walk her every single day. And every day, dogs come over, her and I keep walking, and in almost every single situation, the other dog lets us walk away. Very occasionally, my dog will snap at the other dog to let them know she doesn't want to play.

My point is that I also have a small dog who doesn't want to play. But instead of constantly worrying about my dog being bitten in play or standing there terrified, we just move on and it's fine.

Dogs that jump up and won't be called away ARE a problem, I just don't find it a constant never ending battle and I think it might be partly because you're so scared and that's affecting your dog.

seeing your dog on a lead and looking anxious,

She isn’t anxious - she’s minding her business and enjoying her walk.

She only becomes anxious when a much larger off lead dog runs over and towers over her literally in her face.

It shouldn’t be that close without invitation.

Incorrect again lactose. Everyone is talking about dogs owned by idiots who allow the animal to approach dogs without invitation, to attack, intimidate or roughhouse. Not mutually agreed playing.

A Labrador killing a small dog in 1 bite? Dog deterrent spray? Shouting at other dog owners and getting completely overwrought

Save us all from small dog owner hysteria 😂

I have 2 very large dogs. They are on the lead. Don’t worry. But still, dude, chill out or walk your dog at a more quiet time or place! For your own sake.

a Labrador ambling up is very unlikely to randomly kill or hurt your dog.

If you keep your animals under control and don't allow them to approach any other dogs, good for you, you are what people want other dog owners to do by default. It's the other lot, the people too stupid to own a dog that are the problem.

@NotLactoseFree I didn’t use the word constant?? I said it’s becoming more frequent.

If you read my OP you’ll see that mostly we do as you do, we just keep moving.

She is walked twice a day. Every day she’ll
meet numerous dogs on the walk, some of which ignore her and she then, some of which they meet and greet, some they mutually play.

At least twice a week or so we’ll
have an off lead dog in our space and we just keep walking - it’s annoying but no harm
done. Except you never know when it might turn into a situation where harm IS done - which can happen very quickly.

And incidents like yesterday where she was in actual danger of harm are becoming more frequent - that is what my post is about.

My mum watched her previous springer spaniel almost be killed by an off lead Rottweiler. It happens. And is happening more and more. I don’t think it’s paranoid to be concerned about that - no matter what size of dog you have.

@SimonaRazowska it wasn’t ‘ambling up’.

And why should anyone have to walk their on lead dog somewhere else because people can’t land won’t control their off lead dog?

An off lead dog that is allowed to harass and worry members of the public is against the law. That’s not difficult to understand is it?

yes, this.

OP - it's fine, you don't agree with me. I get it. But I would suggest that you at least consider that you are more scared than you need to be and whether your dog is picking up on that.

Growing up, we had very big dogs. They would play with our very small cat. Not once did the dog accidentally bite the cat. Not even when she put his entire head in her mouth. Playing dogs do not usually accidentally hurt each other.

Aggressive dogs that are off lead and not under control is, of course, another thing entirely.

I act like I’m about to start kicking their dog with my big boots, looking like I’m lashing out in their direction.

it’s amazing how quick their owners get a sprint on when they think their dog might get hurt as opposed to cause hurt.

ive only actually had to do it twice and both times the dog I was protecting would have lost its life otherwise. One of the aggressors had killed before and was still off lead in a local kids park.

I kicked it right in the side of the head three times after each one it ran right back at me and my toddler and dog. That’s how long it took it’s owner to get in and deal with it!
And they shouted at me for kicking their dog!
While I was holding a toddler above my head and trying to protect my dog.

That poor mutt was destroyed 6 months later after it killed its third small dog.

You’re not wrong op and in my experience the quickest way to get a reaction is to stimulate their selfish instincts.

I have a lab. I can’t trust her recall so she’s never off her lead unless we hire a secure dog field.

I do empathise with you OP. There are a lot of people who don’t seem to have control of their dog.

Aggressive dogs that are off lead and not under control is, of course, another thing entirely.

Did you not read the bit where my dog was yelping?

I DON’T CARE IF YOUR DOG IS PLAYING - if my dog does not want to play then your dog needs to fuck off.

No one should be allowing their dog to approach an on lead dog without permission. End of.

Yes Lactose, that is what the thread is about, to clarify again NOT mutually playing dogs. Dangerously out of control dogs be interested allowed to approach other dogs. That is what we are talking about. Not playing.

*being allowed

Did you not read the bit where my dog was yelping?

If your dog is this scared then no, you haven't done enough work on socialising it.

I'll leave the thread now as I can see I'm just going to irritate you. But I will ask you one more time to consider that there's a two-part process going on here - 1 is that absolutely yes, some people are not careful enough to manage their dogs but 2. You and your dog are overly fearful.

No, OP made it clear int he original post that the other dog was trying to play. But her dog didn't want to and was scared.

Labs are too big to be safe playmates for my dog. Lab sees us and comes charging over and is immediately on top of my dog. I could see it was young, and it was in ‘play’ mode - but my dog did not want to play, and was trying to get away.

I pick her up it's my choice to have a tiny dog and dogs being dogs they are bound to come over. Most owners call their bigger dogs away and my girl knows we will always pick her up and is trained to ask if she feels nervous. I have had to use a strict down command with another dog bit only once in 8 years.

@NotLactoseFree actually to be fair to you I AM aware that I am becoming more concerned about this issue (hence this post).

I never used to be worried about her at all. She met any and all dogs when she was far smaller than she is now - it was good for her.

I’ve only become more concerned probably over the last 2 or 3 months after 2 or 3 incidents where she has been actually bitten (once), or been in actual danger and I’ve had to pick her up.

So yea that has made me more concerned and aware of her vulnerability as smaller dog. I still allow her to meet and greet and play with other dogs.

But yes, off lead dogs who are not under their owners control are a worry now.

Mainly because there is very little I can do about it.

Your not wrong!
i came across an idiot the other day, my dog on the lead, idiot with a German shepherd type off the lead. Dog comes bounding up to me, bouncing round, tying my dog up in knots. I asked the woman to get her dog, her response?
It’s only a puppy!

WTF idiot, all the more reason to keep it on a lead until it’s trained!

these people don’t realise the damage they can do but as usual it’s people who are all about themselves than giving any consideration to others.

I hate it when dog owners let there dogs come over to my dog that’s on the lead. I also have a small breed dog.

Fucks me right off and they never give a shit.
I ended up telling one to fuck off with his dog the other day as his ran at mine and bulldozed her over.
fucking idiots, if your dog doesn’t have recall then keep it on a lead.

I don't get peoples obsession with having big dogs they can't control! We have 2 terriers, who while lovely dogs, are not very well trained (not vicious, but barky and jumpy, with not great recall to me, but will listen to my husband) and 1 has severe anxiety around unfamiliar dogs due to being attacked by off leash dogs in the past, so we keep them on leash for walks, and continue with their training! Even small dogs like ours can do damage. But at least we know we couldn't control a bigger dog that wasn't trained properly and we're not knowledgeable enough to train them ourselves so would never get one unless we had the funds to have them fully professionally trained! It's just common sense!

From reading MN, I learnt that I shouldn't let my dog approach dogs who are on a lead (my dog likes a quick sniff and then she moves on. She's not exactly playful).

I now spend a lot of my time calling my dog and asking people if she can approach. 99% of the time I'm met with weird looks from the owners who are like, "duh. sure" because their dogs are on the lead because of terrible recall or poor road sense, not because they're scared!

As someone with a dog of about the same size, I too think you need to relax and be a bit less precious about it.

Mine has played with dogs of all shapes and sizes and has never once been injured. Even when he's been knocked over during a game of chase, he's kept going back for more and clearly wasn't hurt.

Larger dogs will typically, subtly, self handicap. This is why I've seen a lurcher involved in a game of chase with a much smaller dog without ever catching up to it; it knew the small dogs limitations and ran more slowly to allow the play to continue.

Almost all dog fights are basically "handbags at dawn". Noisy, but all noise no damage (it's the quiet fights you need to worry about - they can't sink their teeth in and make noise at the same time). One bite is (a) statistically unlikely to happen and (b) not going to kill your dog unless they clamp down on the neck (even more unlikely). Mine was in a fair few scraps in his misspent youth and no blood was ever drawn on either side. He's since learned the art of de-escalation and also setting boundaries without starting a scrap. In other words, his social skills improved markedly.

As he's got older, he's become less interested in playing, and sometimes there's a dog that's young, a bit obnoxious and too interested in playing. I usually say words to the effect of "is he a bit too much for you? Let's go then" and walk off. Crucially, we walk away from both dog and owner; almost all dogs have a certain radius from their owner that they're happy to go, and can also recognise that a dog walking away from them just isn't interested, so they quickly go away.

Dogs which are mollycoddled don't learn social skills. Many years ago, when I was a child, the family dog was killed by two out of control medium sized dogs in the park. I always avoid that (mercifully rare) breed but I have made the very conscious decision that my dog has to be a dog, and isn't going to be mollycoddled in the park. I don't regret that decision at all.