Help me with the pain and decision of rehoming

[fizzingbubbleseffervescence]

I absolutely adore our dog. She's very loving in the house to me and the kids, she has excellent obedience and training in terms of sitting, waiting, recall and toileting. But she keeps biting me when out on walks. We've taken her to puppy classes (she's 14 months old), we've worked with two one-one trainers, she's had a check up at the vet, we've had two behaviourists give their advice and she even spent time with a trainer in his home for a week. We've spent thousands of pounds and tried just about every method advised. But nothing seems to crack this problem. The biting can be at any time at all during the walk, whether she's run her legs off or is near the beginning. It can be off lead or on lead. Some walks are perfect and it doesn't happen. But when it does its like she's gone mad, she gets into a jumping biting frenzy and she's a big 40kg dog and I really struggle to stop her doing it. She's growling and tugging the lead as she does this and it's very frightening. But when we get home she's lovely again and it's like nothing happened. My arms and legs are covered in bruises (but strangely never blood?). I feel like I could put up with this if it was just me (it's only ever been just me she's done it to) but I'm so frightened it could happen to the kids or someone outside our family. All the professionals she's worked with say how lovely she is and how she's unlikely to do it to anyone else, they say she's being a teenager and taking her angst out on me. But can I take that risk? It's been happening for a year now and I'm becoming a nervous wreck.

We found a breed specific rescue centre who've said they can take her in, train her and give her to a more experienced dog owner. But the kids are absolutely devastated and I'm the villain as she's only attacking me.

Please talk to me about what to do and how to deal with the guilt and pain. The idea of handing her over and the kids sobbing destroys me.

It sounds as though you've had some questionable 'professional ' advice. If your dog is insured, you could ask for a referral from your vet to an APBC approved behaviourist. Several of the methods you have so far been recommended or have tried are likely to be counter productive. You need a positive reinforcement behaviourist to guide you. With regards to the muzzle, never just strap one on and hope for the best. A reputable trainer can help you build a positive association with the muzzle, which will then mean your dog has no inclination to try and get it off. I highly recommend Julie Bedford if you are UK based, she offers remote consultancy.

Op - put a muzzle on and it will reduce your anxiety straight away as you know nothing can happen when out and about - this will properly help the situation greatly too. Good luck x

Absolutely no advice but you sound like a good responsible dog owner and I just hope it works out whatever you decide

Wow @fizzingbubbleseffervescence you’ve managed to hit the jackpot with those trainers , most of that advice is outdated and downright dangerous / cruel . If it’s any consolation I have a friend who has a very large male Golden Retriever and up until he was at least 2 yo you always came away from a visit feeling like you had been mugged .

I use balanced training (which makes me the devil on here) but your balanced trainer doesn't sound especially balanced to me. Denying the dog love and attention is not at all the way to get the best out of her. You want a strong bond so that you enjoy each other's company and so that your dog will be responsive to you.

Have you tried asking her for an alternative behaviour as soon as you see signs of excitement? You can then reward her for this. Or just taking her to the park and rather than walking her and doing various calm training exercises with her? I find with my dogs that the mental load of a long stay both chills them out and tires them out (and both of mine are high-drive maniacs).

Awful trainers op. Am not expert but I would focus on enjoying your dog but working it harder. Make it carry its ball. Use a head collar like the dogmatic so you control the head and therefore the dog. Otherwise if jumping starts stand in the lead so it’s very short and wait it out being as boring as possible then reward the calm walking or ball carrying or treat takings Get a good muzzle if that doesn’t work - build good associations so it’s not punitive . Don’t shout or use noise or horrid collars as all just ramp up the drama. I really don’t think it will be a big problem in the long term.

What breed of dog is she?

She's still very young. Dogs take a lot of work which is the main reason I haven't had one again (much as I loved our retriever)

Lots of good advice on this thread. I would personally ask your vet for a recommendation of who to see for advice and stick to one set of advice. She's clearly over stimulated and honestly, probably just a bit confused. Also, how much exercise does she get? Could well just be boredom. I actually treat my son now like my old dog - knacker him out to the point he sleeps a lot.

She needs muzzling whilst you are out though. That damage to your arm could be critical to a small child.

I think you have received terrible advice from the trainers and the breeder. I would ignore all the advice that involves aversive techniques. So no hitting, no spray, no prong collar, no ignoring. Not only are these things cruel (which is reason enough not to do them), they have every chance of making your dog's issues worse.

Scattering treats can be an effective method. It isn't a reward for bad behaviour or a distraction technique. It's a way to condition a new emotional response to whatever she is reacting to. But if you wait until she's already jumping and biting, it's too late. By then she is unable to process much because she's too overstimulated. Start scattering treats before she reacts, while she is still calm. Then watch her body language. If she is starting to get agitated or overexcited, take her home. I would try to keep walks as calm and predictable as possible, to avoid rehearsing the out of control behaviour and to help her develop new habits and associations.

Can she settle calmly in the house? What about in the garden? If so, I would build on that gradually. If not, I'd get to work on that right away. How is her focus on you?

Hello OP, is your dog a GSD? If so I can help. Mine did this consistently until I sorted it with my trainer. Took about two weeks. Happy to help you. Its often a GSD trait. Shout if you need help.

Woah. You can't carry on like that. What breed? Ddog was a burst fucker when he got over excited but as a small terrier there was no damage.

Ignore anyone who tells you to be the alpha - pack theory has been widely debunked and anyone still spouting that nonsense doesn’t really know much about dog behaviour

What breed is she?
She's still very young and it sounds like she will grow out of it but those bruises are terrible so I understand your frustration, especially as she only does it to you.

Would she carry a toy or ball in her mouth?
How about a halti or slip lead? They will give you more control of her head.

Clicker training with really tasty treats and reinforcing the good behaviour may help? Every few steps she takes where she behaves - click and treat, the walks will be really slow but hopefully she'll learn quickly

I'm sure you've tried all these things. I'd be cautious about scattering food as distraction as if you don't get the timings bang on then you could be accidentally rewarding the bad behaviour.

I follow "Southend dog training" on Instagram- he's honestly brilliant, may be worth looking at a few of his videos.

Bloody hell you have meet some really dodgy trainers no wonder you still have the issue. I can quarantee that not one of those bits of advice would come from a qualififed behaviourist so you have been well and truely scammed! (except maybe the scatterfeeding but the tming is off on their suggestion!)

Apart from most of the above situations increasing your dogs frustration and arousal most of them will make the situation worse.

I would not initially use a muzzle as a muzzle bang can really hurt and you may still have bruises. If you do want to use a muzzle then baskerville is the one to use - it sounds like you need to have a better fit as they should be quite tight and not be able to be pulled off.

Head collar and harness is the way to go. Scatter food on the ground if possible before the jumping up starts. Make go sniff a big part of the walk, encourage your dog to sniff on the ground and verges. Ithey are sniffing they can not be jumping up at you!.

I do understand you feeling like you are rewarding if the dog has already started jumping up (it is going to be a bit less effective waiting for the jumping up to start as the dog will already be overaroused but it may distract) however if you ask for a go sniff then they are being rewarded for following that cue. However personally I would work on the go sniff and scatter feeding before the behaviour starts.

Drop food on the ground say "go sniff" let them eat the food and then when all eaten give a "all done" cue and walk on .

Also note in what areas that your dog does the behaviour as environementally issues can play a major part.

What type of dog do you have thinking of the best headcollar to get?

Avoid Southend dog trainer as you will end up with using the prong collar

Actually it is really interesting that you have only hit on aversive trainers - there are less and less of them about now and so you really have been unlucky in your choice of trainers. A few populare ones eg Southend Dog Trainer but most or changing training methods or have just disappeared.

There are a lot of shit positive trainers around who have half an understanding of positive methods but their timing is poor or advice not 100% accurate however but to have only had aversive trainers when you have seen so many is really really unfortunate.

Unfortunately, every single method you've used has likely made things a lot worse.

Jumping up and mouthing is incredibly common teenage behaviour but you need to be very consistent in how you handle it and deal with it. Don't use any method that will hurt or scare your dog - they don't understand that the jumping or the mouthing is what's causing them to be scared and will just ramp up the behaviour.

Personally I would use a metal lead. It won't feel nice on her teeth and will stop her chewing and biting at the lead. I would also use treats and ask her for an alternative behaviour. So, when she jumps, ask her for a sit or a down. Every single time. If she still jumps, fold your arms, avoid eye contact and ignore her. I know that's hard when she's mouthing but she needs to learn that her behaviour won't get her what she wants (attention). As soon as her bum hits the floor (or all four paws are on the floor) mark the behaviour using a clicker or praise, and give her a treat.

She needs to learn that she gets praise and attention for calm behaviour, not bad behaviour.

I also fully believe in not setting your dog up to fail. So, at first, that means walking her in very boring places with very little stimulation so she can practise lots of calm behaviour. Gradually increase the stimuli as she gets better at ignoring them and remaining calm.

Good luck!

Thank you all for your wonderful advice and offers of help. She is a giant schnauzer.

A dogmatic head collar is usually good for schnauzer. It has the lead under the head so you can use it like a horse bridle. Dont put pressure on the bridle all the time that needs to come from the harness but when the jumping up starts it will give you more control to keep all four feet on the ground and the ability to redirect your dogs head away from biting you.Dogmatic harness

No advice I'm afraid, but I can recommend an excellent behaviourist if you want to pm me - I am sure he can help you with this.

Brilliant advice from @mountainsunsets there. I'd add to that in making walks not exciting and really short. Mine picked particular places to do it so we avoided those routes also I learned to watch like crazy if off lead, as soon as I saw it starting I changed route, reversed course, got down on my hunkers - anything to change the pattern before it kicked off. Make sure dog is hungry going out on walk as treats are more valuable, make treats esp for this walk (I used liver cooked in oven and in small pieces that were hard to find). Try and always get in first before the behaviour. Its an awful thing to experience- shredded jackets, bruised arms, cut hands here but now all good. Good luck OP.

Would not use headcollar, any sort of control fight out is going to drive frustration and ramp up behaviour.

A soft muzzle Our dog used to do this when he was overtired or o we excited. A soft muzzle means they can't bite. Obviously it needs to be taken off again straight after the walk and drink right away

Soft muzzles should never be used on walks as they don't allow dogs to pant, drink or take food.

Always, always use something like a Baskerville for walks. Soft muzzles should only be used in situations like the vets when the dog is an immediate bite risk.

If you see my previous posts you will see the methods used to prevent the control or fight issues .........

headcollar only used to prevent physical harm to the owner.