Rom rescue- I realise I have failed

[fatherfurlong]

15 months ago got 6month old Rom rescue. Arrived very nervous, anxious and noise sensitive. Did all the things I thought a good dog owner should do so took him to puppy classes( only realising afterward it was completely inappropriate for our dog). Tried a dog trainer who was very prescriptive and gave some tips on working on recall etc good games for the dog to learn to occupy him and have some fun. Went to another dog class which was more helpful in giving me confidence in what I was doing with the dog and finally a behaviourist to address my dog’s fearful aggression.

We have worked so hard and he has improved but in the last week he has ‘gone’ for my husband twice and growled at my disabled daughter when she made an involuntary movement. No biting but air snapping, growling, ears flat and lunging forward. He is a large dog and it is frightening when he does it.
My main worry is that this aggression is directed at family members who he has seen every day for 15 months! My husband walks him, feeds him etc but the dog will never play with him and will frequently growl at him with no provocation.

I knew it would be hard but not this hard. The rescue have offered ‘tips’ but no other support and their attitude seems to be to keep plodding on because things will get better but it feels like an endurance trial. I said the only thing that would make me return him is if he bit anyone but it’s like we are waiting for it before giving up.

Please take him to the vet in case he's in pain. Then try the Facebook group 'dog training advice and support' run by Sally Bradbury xx

You haven't failed. Some dogs aren't ever going to be good pets.
A dog is supposed to be an enjoyable addition to your life, not a constant source of stress and anxiety.
Sure, there are ups and downs and limitations associated with having a dog but on average it's supposed to be a source of happiness and the dog should be content too.
If you feel unsafe, and it sounds like you do, then stop now, return the dog immediately and explain exactly what has been happening.
If you feel that you can protect your daughter and yourself with management strategies, then try get your vet to prescribe anxiety medication for a 6 week trial period and simultaneously consult an accredited behaviourist. But don't set your hopes too high.
For the dog, living with constant fear and anxiety is as much a welfare issue as being in constant physical pain, if not more so. People with anxiety can use all sorts of techniques... they can talk to a therapist, phone a friend, meditate, pray, read a book, use reason and logic to help themselves. An animal experiencing frequent or constant fear is not in a good place at all.

Of course also get your vet to exclude obvious physical pain etc.

Certainly could be pain or Thyroid issues. Thyroid causes aggression in dogs and many dogs to be put down unnecessarily as problems can be difficult to detect in some dogs.

Get a thorough vet check. And then find a qualified and recommended behaviourist to work with and assess the dog. You need to establish what is upsetting him. Behaviour is communication. He is communicating to you he is uncomfortable

I am registered with them & have read their guides but not posted, will do.

Thanks for your advice. I have booked him into the vets on Monday & will raise all your very valid points

Didn't know that -will ask, thank you.

Sadly this is typical of Rommie rescues, for all the owners saying theirs has been a dream, you typically get more seeing behavioural problems and having to return.

They are usually a mix that includes a herding/guarding breed, coming from a life of living on the streets with human contact only when they seek it, and simply are not suitable to be family pets and all that entails.

Thanks for your replies. My concern is that he does it in our home with those he is most familiar with. We are lucky he has not bitten so that demonstrates some self inhibition. It is really only me that he is comfortable with & will follow me from room to room, let me groom him etc which of course is pleasing that he trusts me but I don't live in isolation there are others to consider.
I feel like we are all walking on eggshells to placate the dog & even then he can react.

Romanian rescues need knowledgeable handling as they come with a lot of trauma. It sounds like he hasn't has the time and handling needed so has just been stress stacking and it is getting worse. It sounds like way too much too soon so he is flooded and stressed. Your dog can be helped, you just need the right advice (ordinary behaviourists don’t always help as Ro dogs have different breeding/genetics, even if you got a pup with no trauma. They had to be nervous, wary etc to survive over generations).

The growling and snarling is actually communication not aggression. This shows he is controlling himself by not biting but he is also telling you he’s not happy. His stress triggers are piling up and he is stressed, anxious and reaching his limit.

suggest you join Meesh Masters Romanian Rescue Dogs Community and Resources on FB. She is a very experienced and effective dog trainer who specialises in Ro rescues and has a very helpful set of units and a supportive group.

thedogspov.com/romanian-rescue-dogs/
www.thedogspointofview.com/blog/romanian-rescue-dogs-you-can-t-rush-nature

loads of people will have been through this!

yourdogsfriend.org/life-with-dogs/learn-to-speak-dog-prevent-bites/signs-of-anxiety/

I think to start with you just need to expect way less of him. Reduce his stress stacking. Give him a quiet undisturbed space, time alone, seriously reduce stimulation (even the good stuff, like fetch or running around) and work on calming him down and reassuring him. He needs to feel safe not scared or stressed. Give him love and attention when he asks for it, leave him be if he doesn’t. No puppy classes, etc. Keep him somewhere quiet away if you have guests (v stressful). Try to limit new experiences for a while, boredom is fine. Let him process things and settle.

He can be helped, he just needs you to understand him and help him. Best of luck.

My Romanian dogs (2) have never once shown aggression. One is calm and gentle and the other is gentle but anxious. I don’t agree they can’t make good pets but they take a bit more understanding and patience so probably not for a novice dog owner or at least not for someone who isn’t prepared to read up and do the work with the dog (although all dogs need training, really). I think you can get an awful lot out of training them over time and seeing them develop and they are more interesting, instinctive and characterful than other dogs I have known personally. Never going back 😃

If it’s true that lots Romanian rescues have nervous genetics as @Phrenologistsfinger suggests then why the hell are rescues importing them in the thousands and placing them with families who have children. Completley irresponsible. Im
sick of seeing so many nervous aggressive imports that are in dangerous situations, many of which got placed without ever being assessed in foster (being in a run outside in Romania is not assessing in a home) Add to this so many people advocating this behaviour as ‘normal’ for rommies and to learn to live on eggshells around a dog. If it’s normal to be terrified of life or nervous aggressive then really they aren’t set up for UK society. Dogs are meant to enhance your life not make you frightened in your own home.

Lots of behaviour is genetic. Not everything can be fixed no matter how hard it’s trained.

This is a large genetically unsound and nervous dog showing aggression to family members. The OP has a disabled daughter.
Sorry I do love dogs and treat mine as family members but in my opinion you would be mad to consider keeping it.

I think you are overblowing what I said there @Leonberger - I think every family that gets a new dog needs to consider the dog’s needs and their own circumstances.

I know plenty of people who have happy well-adjusted Ro dogs but you can’t throw them into puppy classes and expect them to behave just the same as a pampered labradoodle. Just as a collie needs different handling to another breed, they are all individuals conditioned by a variety of factors. This might include the wariness of guardian and shepherd breeds that many are descended from. I don’t think that means they are all a H&S risk (far from it!) but you need to know what your dog needs and how to handle it to give you and the dog the best life possible. That’s just common sense.

And maybe this dog isn’t right for OP’s circumstances, only OP and family can decide that. But there is a lot of information and support out there OP might not be aware of, so I have shared it. And if OP had had some of that information before or at the start of owning their dog, the situation might not have got to this. Dogs are just being dogs, they are reacting to the circumstances they are placed in, with no control over their own lives. So understanding them is our job.

I work in dog rescue and I agree, it’s ludicrous that we are importing large dogs use to a life on the streets and placing them in busy city homes and expecting them to be great family pets.
Both genetics and upbringing make them largely unsuitable for this, and dogs are taken straight from long plane/car journeys straight into homes without any assessments.

But, foreign rescues often don’t homecheck and allow families with young children to adopt so many people look for these imports.

Unfortunately this is an increasingly common problem with overseas rescues.

While some are fantastic, others would never have made it through the vetting process in place in the UK. These dogs have had zero socialisation, have never lived in homes or walked on leads - and they should certainly never be placed in inexperienced homes with children.

As a dog walker I have never met an overseas rescue that doesn't have some kind of issue - poor recall, severe dog reactivity, a major prey drive and, sadly, people aggression and severe issues with resource guarding.

Obviously you need to make sure your dog isn't unwell or in pain but to me it sounds like he's not suitable to live with you. Dog ownership should be fun and should make your life better. It shouldn't be stressful and filled with worry about who's going to get snarled at or bitten next.

You haven't failed. The rescue have failed you, by placing an inappropriate dog in your home.

As others have said, dogs are meant to bring you happiness. He clearly isn't. It's not your fault or his, but it's not working for any of you.

I would return him to the rescue.

Please could you post the evidence for difficult times detect thyroid problems that cause aggression? @WowIlikereallyhateyou

Thanks all for taking the time to reply.

We will be seeing the vet Monday. I agree totally with villainousbrrodmare, it must be awful to live in such a high state of anxiety as our dog does.

We have had input from a behaviourist, I have spoken to our vet on a couple of occasions about him and I have done lots of reading around the subject and from various websites, a few of which someone mentioned above.

I deliberately did not take a break the first year as he was settling in and only spent 2 nights away from home last week. I know several people locally that have Rom rescues and also people that have dogs they chose as puppies from breeders and without exception they have issues one way or another but nobody I speak to has the issue of showing aggression toward family members and knowing that it is born out of fear does not help ‘in the moment’ when a spontaneous outburst completely surprises and frightens you & you have a split second to decide on your own actions.

He is my first dog, I am no expert- I am a novice but I have done my best with the help of the behaviourist, the trainer, the vet and the rescue. I don’t know his history- for the first 6 months was he on the streets? Was he from a puppy farm? Taken from his mother at birth? Illtreated? Malnourished that caused neurological deficiency?
I just don’t know and I can’t put it right. All I can do is try to help the dog now whilst not putting my family at risk.

Not an ideal situation to put it mildly.

Although I appreciate that some dogs rescued from overseas may have issues, I can only comment from personal experience, which has been extremely positive. My two Spanish rescues were simply the easiest dogs I've ever had: brilliant temperaments - calm and unaggressive. My current Romanian rescue has a quirky personality but is sociable and amenable and has settled in well with my two UK rescue dogs. I feel it is rather a blanket judgement to deem all dogs from Romania and other non-UK countries problematic.

In my line of work I daily have communcations with people like the OP who have put their whole life on hold to settle in a Romie rescue. There are many dogs that are imported to the UK who have literally been picked off the street and are feral dogs. They will never ever settle happily into a home enviroment.

You can spend hours and hours on behaviourists but the dogs are not suited to domestic life.

OP I am really sorry you are going through this (unfortunately along with many others) You have done nothing wrong, the rescue has. I expect it highly unlikely that they will help you or become involved in rehoming.

Oh OP this is a very difficult situation.
The reality is that the majority of foreign rescues I've personally interacted with, have numerous behaviour problems. I've met some wonderful well balanced dogs too but the vast majority are really really difficult dogs.
They appear to be much bigger in size than, say, 5 years ago too.
And a lot of rescues very young nowadays, yet still presenting with problems.

You've done your very best.

The reality is that these dogs are half feral and also they transmit protective behaviour from generation to generation. They've grown to be survivals because those were the circumstances they multiplied in. Survival of the fittest.

Although I agree a lot of the behaviour is due to fear, this translates in aggression towards humans and, possibly, other dogs.
And I am absolutely convinced a lot of them would feel more comfortable in the open air not in homes. Farm environment would probably be ideal. Essentially they do not want to be cornered, they do not want their space to be invaded in any way, in order to feel safe and comfortable. They are not pets but would probably make very good guard dogs left to their own devices just through instinct. And they would be loyal to new owners as long as they have space, somewhere safe to retreat and not bothered by normal petting interactions.

A lot of these rescued dogs live in constant high levels of stress. That's definitely not kind to them. We are trying to mould them into something they are not out of miss placed charity and kindness. But ultimately the current way of treating these rescues is doing more harm than good to all involved.
The dog is nowhere near living a content life. Possibly not even a 'better' life.

I don't know what would be a better solution but it isn't working as it is now.
It is a sad situation and I imagine it won't get better.

The wisest move for you at this stage would be to rehome the dog. It will never ever work in your family setup. I'm sorry but I honestly don't think the dog is benefiting enough to justify putting yourselves at risk.

Which is great but possibly more luck than judgement.

I have a Cypriot rescue. I am her second UK home because she was placed with a family with two small children first.

She was born in the rescue to a Mum that had been stray. Never lived in a home. She was resource guarding and had a low tolerance for the children (TBF they were allowed to treat her in inappropriate ways) so she was growling and air snapping towards them.

We're an adult only household - I love her down to her absolute bones and she has a beautiful sole but she's also a complete handful.

I wouldn't trust her for a second alone with children or any small furries apart from our own four cats.

I don't think dogs that haven't been properly socialised and have similar genetics to mine (large guarding breed crosses) should be placed with small children. They may be very sweet as little puppies on their daily walk from the pen but that isn't anywhere near enough info to safely place with children IMO.