Is It Really That Bad?

[Spacemonkey2016]

Hi all. I really want to get a puppy at the end of the year. I'm trying to research everything properly, to make sure it's a good idea for our family and the future dog. But everything I read seems to discourage people with young children to do so. My children will be 6 and 3.....is it really such a terrible idea? They'd only be a small dog, and we both WFH for the majority of the week. I grew up with a dog from the moment I was born, until I was 15 he bought so much joy to my childhood. I want that for my children, and dogs are the only pet animal they're not allergic to. (Well, only pet animal I'd have in my house, anyway!)

Can anyone add any positivity about getting a puppy with reasonably young children? Unpopular on Mumsnet, I know, but the dog would be either a cavapoo or a cockerpoo. puts my hard hat on

Well I wouldn’t but it’s your decision. Puppies are hard work , my cousin has kids a similar age and ended up returning his cavapoo pup to the breeder after 6 weeks - nipped both kids and chewed everything. Which is what puppies do and should be expected. Give me an older dog anyday.

Why a cavapoo or cockerpoo over a mini or toy poodle?

We did it and it was great. You need to commit to puppy training sessions and accept that they will chew (so provide them with lots of toys). Then you commit to walking daily and making them part of the family (ours sleep upstairs) then they are fabulous!

I'm very open to a miniature poodles actually, but everything I've read online says how good with children cavapoos are, especially. Miniature poodles are never really mentioned about how they are with children. And I know several people personally with a cockerpoo/cavapoo, but noone with a miniature poodle, so can't ask their opinions.

I wouldn't get an older dog around young children. Assuming the way you would get an older dog, is through a rescue, none of which would adopt to us with children my age anyway, even if I wanted to rescue.

@SerendipitySunshine Ah I'm glad it worked out well for you. And they would very much be part of our family. And I'm expecting it to be hard, so hopefully I wouldn't be too disillusioned! Good tip about the chew toys, thanks!

Depends on the children, depends on the dog. It's a gamble and it's more of a gamble than if you didn't have young children because the range of behaviour you can accept from the dog is likely to be smaller than if children were not present.

e.g. puppy nipping is something adults can understand but young children may struggle with. Keeping precious items out of reach is something adults tend to do better tha small children who may be upset to find their favourite toy chewed up.

Only you know your children and know yourself. Puppies do really require pretty much full on supervision for a while. Are you able to provide that and provide the right level of attention to your children, for instance? Again, the exact amounts required from everyone will depend on your children, yourself and the specific dog you end up with. Some puppies nap more than others, some take to being left to sleep better than others, some toilet train much quicker than others etc. Expect to be giving full-on attention to the dog (when awake) for the first 6 months, ish.

Cockers and Cavaliers have quite different temperaments and a mix could end up being more cocker/caver than poo so do make sure you understand all 3 breeds and can live with whatever the mix throws out. Good and bad.

If you wfh for the majority of the week, that suggests times when you don't. And there will (presumably) be children activities the dog is not welcome for. Think about what you do with a young dog. You cannot leave them alone at such as age and you may struggle to find a professional dog care setting that takes such a young puppy on. Or maybe you both work away on different days? Something to think about. In fact, thinking through everyday scenarios is also useful: if the children are sick can you leave them home while you walk the dog or will the dog have to go without walks, or will you make sure you or your parnmer can cover at home? When the dog gets older and requires longer walks, are your children old enough to 'keep up' for 30-60mins of walking or will one adult walk and one stay back? Do you go on holidays and what kinds of holidays? If you end up with a dog that doesn't like crowds does that impact your life in a way you won't accept?

Not trying to put you off. I just think it's worth thinking through everything you do in a day, plus any realistic changes to your routine (holidays, you being sick, visitors, play dates, parties etc) and how you will accomodate or adapt for the dog AND young children.

Having a puppy is really hard work! I wore the same clothes every day for months as he just tore them apart. Biting, nipping, hanging off my ankles, weeing everywhere... mad zoomies. We've done two training courses and stuff is still hard sometimes.

We WFH FT so it was ok but must be really hard with small children too. Maybe wait until the smallest can understand the behaviour stuff a bit more?

Also not sure it's about size so much as breed? Cavaliers are gorgeous and gentle but playful. Don't know much about poodles but think they can be nuts?! No guarantee of what your mix will be like, although there's never a guarantee is there.

If you get one you'll make it work I'm sure.

I would wait until your children are both in school - for your own sanity as much as anything else 🤣

Poodles are highly intelligent and need a lot of stimulation. Depending on the traits your cockerpoo could be a lot more poodle than cocker and there is no way to know.

I love my cocker to death but if you get a cockerpoo that's more cocker than poodle you will have your work cut out

Problem with cross breeds is you don't know what you're going to get. It's a bit like having kids. You always hope they will get the best bits of you and Dp/dh but the reality is that they can sometimes get the worst bits of both too!

Definitely team wait until the youngest has started primary school. I don't know about your kids, but my youngest nephew would have been way too OTT for a puppy, tears would have been shed by all, he's only just becoming less grabby at 6 years old.

You'll need time to have 1:1 with the puppy to work on training, much easier when kids aren't around. You also need to plan for days when it's just you, kids and dog, dog will become a challenge if you want to go to places that are not kid friendly, including friends houses, play areas, soft play etc.

Agree about the caution on the poodle cross. Finding someone whose actually done all the relevant health testing for poodle crosses are rare as hen's teeth - and you really need it when you're considering a cross with a Cavalier - a cross can still develop their horrible health problems. Look at other breeds, contact breed clubs, something like Bichon or Mini Poodle may well work better and come from a healthier family line and not a puppy farm.

There's a good reason most rescues won't rehome dogs to families with pre-school kids. I have seen a few dogs that could have coped with even babies but they've been adopted in hours.

Rescues get lots of puppies and young dogs signed over precisely because a family with young children has bought the pup, pup has bitten, or growled, or the kids are absolutely terrified of this screaming ball of fur and teeth.

Even a good breeder would be very cautious and may refuse to sell you a puppy if you have very young children and they happen to be boisterous.

I would wait a year or so. My four year old and our puppy have a bit of a love/hate relationship. The dog definitely tried to assert dominance over him, though the roles are thoroughly reversed now. And the nipping is upsetting for very small kids. My 7 year old has dealt with the puppy much better.

Also bear in mind you can't have any kids toys in the same space as the dog for months, which is hard on the kids if it's in their main play area.

Ita not the size of dog but the breed. We have a golden retriever and kids and the puppy stage was easy because of the nature of the dog.

Extended family have small dogs like cavapoos etc and they have been a nightmare. For me personally i would never get a small dog as all the ones i have ever met have smalldog syndrome and seem to need to show their authority due to their small size, always barling or yapping. We can't be around our familys dogs with the kids because they just bully the children, growl and bark to defend their territory.

It really is a gamble.

You can minimise risks by buying from a reputable Kennel Club breeder of a who knows her dogs are of good temperament. This means cross breeds are out.

We got a cavapoo who developed extreme anxiety and resource guarding (despite doing everything "right" and going to puppy classes, Dog's Trust training, hiring a behaviourist etc.). We sadly had to re home with family. Heartbreaking but he couldn't have been trusted with young DS.

I would wait two or so years. I was pretty experienced with dogs, but puppy + young kids is really hard. You can't take the puppy to kid stuff, and you can't take the kids to puppy stuff, so you always feel like someone is missing out.

It also sucks a lot of the joy of of having a puppy. When you have young kids, you are already up to your neck in cuteness and cuddles and funny hijinks. You don't appreciate the bits of that that the puppy brings - you just see the extra work. If you wait until your youngest starts school, you and the kids will likely enjoy the puppy so much more.

Two things from me, a very large percentage of poodle cross breeds are bred from puppy farms, hard to ensure that you’re not perpetuating the suffering of the breeding bitches, and even if you do manage to get a decently bred one, others will admire your dog and want the same but not have any kind of understanding of how to avoid puppy farmers so it continues.
I got a Westie pup when my kids were very young, it was a fabulous relationship for all of them and very positive, but put an end to spontaneous events like dropping into friends houses after school, either they didn’t want the dog or I couldn’t leave the dog at home for long periods if we decided to go out after an after school club or similar. I tried to do my best for all of them but it was tricky.

Any dog I've met with "small dog syndrome" behaves that way because their owners insist on treating them like toys/babies instead of actual dogs, so I wouldn't let size put you off in that respect.

This has all been very eye opening and helpful, thank you! Choosing a small dog is because of realism of our house size/garden. A labrador or a boxer would be my first choice in an ideal world, haha! We WFH different days, so no days a dog would be home alone all day..but yes, absolutely would have to be for an hour or so non dog friendly kid's activities. It's interesting to hear everyone's stories and experiences.

Choosing a small dog is because of realism of our house size/garden.

I wouldn't say it necessarily follows that you need a bigger house for a bigger dog, at least not until you get to the giant breeds. Most of the cocker spaniels/cockerpoos I know treat the furniture like an assault course, my lab is very sedate inside the house in comparison so feels far less under your feet.

Personally i would wait until the children are slightly older. We put off getting a puppy for years, because life with small children is full on, and we would not have had the time to give fairly.
We have had our 9 month old rescue now for 6 months, and I wouldn't be without her, but it is bloody hard work, like having a naughty toddler around at times. Our youngest is 9 now and is great with her, but I don't think she would have coped well with the nipping, feet attacking, and playfulness of our dog any younger. Even now I have to constantly remind her to put precious possessions out of harms way.
Think very carefully if you will have the time/energy/patience to put into raising a puppy before jumping in x

@Mariposa80 That's good to know, thank you. Size of house/garden was never a consideration for us, but for the dog. I assumed a lab would need quite a lot of outside space to run around in. They'd be fine in our house, but garden is definitely small.

The nipping is worth real thought: all the breeds mixed into a caver or cocker poo are notorious for being bitey little buggers when they are young.

Some can be very tenecious and this can be upsetting for young children.

Not insurmountable, just worth knowing and thinking about it first.

I’d also wait a few years. A lot has been said here about protecting children from puppy or dog so I won’t repeat that - but you also have to think about protecting puppy or dog from the children. My daughter was 4 and a half and just going to school when we got our dog and 4 years later she still struggles with the concept that he’s not just a big live teddy bear. Respecting his space and his peace and quiet, not to mention his right not to be picked up and cuddled whenever she feels like it is an ongoing battle.
I’d also urge you to think about care for him for things like holidays (dog sitting for us is £35 a night as we don’t have anyone who will do it for free so it really does add to holiday costs) and even just weekend days out (if you want to go for a family day out somewhere dogs aren’t allowed who will look after the dog? What about a long Sunday lunch out, you need a restaurant that allows dogs..)
I wouldn’t change him for the world - but if I had my time over I’d wait.