To crate or not?

[wintersgold]

We're bringing home our golden retriever puppy in a couple weeks & still haven't settled on whether to use a crate or not.

If we do decide to use one it will only be for the first few weeks (or until the puppy's housetrained). We'll obviously have puppy proofed rooms and play pens too so he doesn't get into danger.

Personally I would prefer not to crate but it seems to be the "done thing" now. I've read that it's pretty much essential for housetraining.

How true is that? If anyone managed to successfully housetrain their puppy without a crate please could you share any advice!

Thank you
(I don't want to start a debate on the ethics of crating please! Just looking for advice on other methods)

Not. Certainly not essential, people have managed for many years to successfully house train dogs without forcing them to either hold on or lie in their own waste.
”Restricting a dogs access to move around and confining them to one space is NOT toilet training in my opinion. It is toilet management.
The dog has two options 1) Soil my bed and lie in it or 2) Hold on until my owner decides it is an appropriate time for me to go. This gives the animal minimal choice, and one choice is hardly pleasant and in my opinion, totally unfair on the dog.
The issue with option number two is that how often a dog needs to eliminate depends on a huge range of factors and as a result it can vary from day to day. Whilst many owners are observant and understand when to give their pup toileting opportunities, many are not canine body language savvy or they are perhaps too busy at times and don’t notice.
Or, the pup is left alone at home for a few hours so their carers are not even around to let them out when the puppy indicates they need to go.”

themuttyprofessor.co.uk/2017/07/20/crate-debate-crate-not-crate/

I did use a crate as for me it was the right thing. There reason I used a crate was because my girl comes to work with me and I needed her to be in some sort of routine. So, she was just in her crate for her morning nap, her afternoon nap and then for bedtime. On the occasions I didn't crate her when she was sleeping she didn't get a restful sleep and used to wake up if I moved and just follow me about. She was in her crate till she was about 9 months old and then I got rid of it and she chooses where she sleeps now. There is no right or wrong, just do what you feel is best for you and your pup.

We had a crate for use overnight, and occasional daytime naps. Generally she slept wherever but the crate was useful if she became an overtired bitey mess. I'd ask her to go in it and then sit with her and say if she was still awake in 5 minutes we'd go do something. She was always fast asleep by then.

We slept alongside overnight. She never soiled in the crate, always woke us up if she needed the toilet.
We only ever had a couple of accidents around the house the first week home. Not a single accident since. Toilet training was definitely the easiest part of puppy ownership for us!

Our puppy is crated over night but not during the day, although the crate is open for him to go in (he chooses his day bed).

I know he is safe in his crate, he can't damage anything, he is comfortable and used to it. He can't harass my older dog. He sees it as his nighttime space and willingly jumps in, waits for me to shut the door then snuggles himself down.

During the day if I need to leave him, I shut him in the kitchen on a tiled floor. He doesn't seem to get up to much mischief.

My lab puppy many years ago managed to eat a hole in the wall overnight once when not crated!

@tizwozliz was exactly the same for me. My pup used to get extra nippy when she was tired so I used to pop her in her crate and she would fall asleep. I toilet trained her using a bell, and although I felt like the butler it was only a couple of weeks before she was ringing the bell asking to go out. She never needed the loo in the night even from a tiny pup so yes, toilet training definitely the easiest bit.

I hate crates for dogs, we have never used them with any of our dogs, and personally don't see the benefit. As long as they have a safe space, not too big to start with, especially a golden retriever who will grow quickly.

My pup goes in it during the day to nap and we have one in the bedroom.
She won't settle during the day for a sleep unless I put her in it.
I never used it for house training, I can't actually see how that works?

I think it's a horrible modern trend, to be honest, and the popularity of these suggests that we seem to be going backwards in terms of animal welfare.

I have never used a crate for house training. However, I will restrict where a puppy can go for safety and hygiene reasons. My most recent puppy is a very small breed so I used a puppy play pen. If I didn't want him underfoot at any time, this was much more spacious than a crate and worked fine, all other times he was out and about. The best thing for house training is taking the puppy outside a lot and regularly - every 20 minutes to start is not too much, and also taking out during the night if needed. Lots of opportunity and masses of praise is the best way. Shutting a puppy in a crate hoping that it will be discouraged from going to the loo does not work as a house training method.

I’ve never used one, they really aren’t necessary. Nasty trend over from America and very easy to get wrong.

I have a crate for my lab puppy, he sleeps in there during the night, never used it for toilet training though, literally just took him outside in the garden every so often and praised when he done the toilet he just sits at the back door now when he needs out. Hes 12 weeks.
He loves his crate, just goes in by himself when he needs a break from the kids

Never crated our dogs and both have been easily house trained

We had a very large pen when ours was small and then just fenced him off in areas he couldn’t damage when need be . I’m quite anti cage , I understand all the arguments for them but it’s just not something I’m happy with . My dog has been in cages at the vets and groomers ( occasionally , they are usually loose ) and he’s more than happy to go in one so that’s not an issue for us .

We never crated our beagle and we never had any issues with toilet training or destruction.

He slept in our bed room from day one and just scratched at the door or whined to wake us up so he could go out. He never had a night-time accident though we didn't bring him home until he was 12 weeks old.

If we had to leave him, he was left in the living room with a stuffed kong and the TV on. The only things he ever destroyed were a flip flop and a sofa cushion!

If he had been destructive or had lots of accidents, we may have considered crate-training but it was honestly never necessary, and he's since been crated at the vets with no issues.

They’re definitely not a must for housetraining tbh, useful yes, especially overnight because a crated puppy in the room with you will wake you up so you can take them out rather than having to deal with an accident.

But mostly they’re handy so chewy puppies can’t get hold of anything dangerous or if you’ve other pets you need to keep a dog away from or smallish children you want to keep away from a dog.

It should be used how you’d use a cot or playpen for a baby really, so not really massively helpful with housetraining.

I've never used a crate and have brought up and housetrained four puppies. The last one sometimes made me wish we'd crate trained her, as she very lively and can be a bit destructive, but we prefer our dogs to have the run of two or three rooms rather than two or three square meters when we go out.

People will say that you should crate train to make it easier if the dog has to go to the vets, but our dogs are used to being confined in the back of the car, and have never had any issues when at the vet.

We used one at night (upstairs to begin with, then gradually moved it down) and also for daytime naps when she was still learning how to nap!

We stopped using it in the day by about four months as she was happy enough snoozing in her bed, although she occasionally took herself into the crate.

We didn't really use it as a toilet training tool though, we still set regular alarms through the night in the first month to take her out, gradually moving them until she slept through.

When she was about a year she suddenly stopped running into the crate after her last wee, so we stopped using it. We kept it up until after she was spayed, doing a bit of positive association and feeding lickimats in there just so crating at the vets wasn't completely unusual.

They are not a modern invention at all - crating dogs has been around since the 60's. Ian Dunbar was promoting their uses back in 70's although they became more main stream in the 80's.

I would not use them just for toilet training.

Take your puppy our every hour or so and when they change activitiy eg sleeping to waking up, playing to stop playing etc. Sleep near the puppy and hear then stir and take them out.

For some dogs they are useful if you have chewy dogs or dogs that do not easy rest and settle for other dogs they are no better than using a comfy bed.

Puppies however may chew and destroy their beds so vet bed in a crate is a good starting point and they can be moved onto a bed as the chewing stops.

Personally all my dogs are taught to be happy in a crate as a general life skill for them and also travel in crates in vehicles so it is important that they are happy and chilled in them - which they are

Crate training is vitally important and obviously crating for long periods of time is not acceptable.

If you can create a safe puppy proofed area in your house then a crate will not be necessary - it depends on house and the individual puppy.

Some people use puppy pens but I have seen quite nasty accidents with pens as puppies try to climb over them - so again depends on the puppy.

Crates are definitely not necessary. Over the years all my puppies have been very easily housetrained without crates. I wouldn't use one at night as I think they are too confining.

I should say crates are not necessary for many puppies. I can imagine a scenario in which a crate would be needed to keep a puppy safe. But IMO one of the dangers of the popularity of crate training is the potential for using them too often or for too long.

I'm also getting a Golden Retriever puppy shortly and have decided to use a crate because of the layout of our house and cats. She will be in the crate (hopefully) at night and I will stay in the room with her for the first few times.

Once she is safely introduced to cats and toilet trained the crate will be optional, I don't plan for it to be long term, but who knows as she might love it.

Got the crate free on Facebook so nothing lost if it doesn't work out.

I do remember the first time I saw a dog crate when on a work home visit and I was horrified but I just thought it was a cage! Now I understand it's a safe space for the pup if they need it.

I think if I had a different house and no cats I might try without though.
Good luck.

I do remember the first time I saw a dog crate when on a work home visit and I was horrified but I just thought it was a cage! Now I understand it's a safe space for the pup if they need it
It is just a cage , calling it a crate and saying it’s a safe space doesn’t make it less of a cage . Very few people cannot make a safe area for a puppy , most people just don’t want to bother to do so as it’s easier , and now common place to stick the dog in a cage instead .

We didn’t and honestly I wish I had!

I though there was no need as I thought she’d sleep in the kitchen and be like dogs in the past. Didn’t expect her to be so clingy and so she had to sleep next to our bed. But then I had to sleep really lightly so that I’d hear if she needed to go out. Totally messed up my sleep for 6 months! And got her into habits of me getting up all night…. Did not work out well!

So I would! until they reliably sleep alone or can be trusted with a carpet at night ….

Or if not a cage then get some kind of pen that you can trap the puppy in at night with pads.

not sure why I didn’t work that out.

The last thing you want to do is provide a pad for a puppy to pee on , they need to know from day 1 that outside is good and that includes overnight .