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Cockapoos- from working or show cocker???

120 replies

missminimum · 30/03/2022 16:31

I know there have been a lot of cockapoo threads and some people do not approve of the breed. I am not looking for opinions on if you approve of the breed, but advice of the pros and cons between a working cockers or show cocker crosses? We have previously had a show cocker, but many cockerpoos seem to be a cross between a poodle and working cocker, sl would like advice on if this makes much difference in a cockapoo. Thanks

OP posts:
fairylightsandwaxmelts · 02/04/2022 11:29

@UsernameFail

It's interesting *@fairylightsandwaxmelts* you should mention labradors. That's our other dog, which we got because 'they're good family pets'. Our lab is great, except she jumps 2m high fences and is incredibly high energy - and can go on two hour walks/ runs, come back, rest for a hour and then take herself off for a run again. It's incredibly stressful.

We've seen several trainers and behaviouralists. Pre Cockerpoo I chatted with lab breeder who said she would never believe it had she not had two like this herself.

Well bred labs even have kickback traits

But all of that sounds very normal for a young, working-type Labrador.

They are primarily working dogs who are bred to be out exercising all day on shoots, and need to be taught how to be calm.

I don't know why they're touted as excellent family dogs myself - yes, they might be good with people and they generally have good recall (again, this is down to their breeding as gun dogs) but they're certainly not calm, low-energy dogs, especially not when they're young.

Neongoddess · 02/04/2022 11:31

Yes they are rare, for pedigrees, but they exist, they don’t for crosses - that was my point.

How can you possible know that?

MrsWinters · 02/04/2022 11:43

I think the thing is that different dogs are suitable for different people and they choose them for different reasons. I get that people have their favourites-but there does seem to be a bit of a mindset amongst people of this suits me-do should suit everyone.
In AIBU there’s a post about dangerous dogs, which has defended into a bit of a big dogs bad, small dogs good. Here it’s purebred good, Xs bad, within each side of owner defending what they’ve picked.
Out and about I get so many small dog owners commenting on the size of my dog - really???? He’s a happy chap, well socialised and plays beautifully with dogs of all sizes. Do why can’t we just be happy with what people choose works for them?
Yes there are things to lookout for when buying a cockerpoo, and that advice is helpful, but there are decent ones out there.
Personally I’d never have a cockerpoo-they’re not my kind of thing, but I have come across a few sweet ones, that really suit their owners.
I think dogs are many peoples pride and joy, and we really need to be mindful of how upsetting it can be when someone makes a rude throw-away comment about them.

Hoppinggreen · 02/04/2022 11:45

I think a major issues with cockapoos is not the dog itself but the type of owner
Most of the people I know with them got them as a first dog based largely on looks and/or because they “don’t shed”. They don’t tend to be the dog of choice for experienced dog owners
So you have inexperienced owners who don’t really understand what they are getting and forget they are a cross of 2 very active dogs, one of which can be a bit snappy who have been purchased quite often from dodgy breeders. Add to that the fact that some of these owners see cockapoos as cute lapdog type dogs that they like to dress up and treat like a baby so don’t train them adequately
This can create a perfect storm which is why a lot of more experienced dog owners can be a bit “snobby” about them
I appreciate some cockerpoo owners DO understand what they are getting but far too many don’t unfortunately

tabulahrasa · 02/04/2022 11:51

@Neongoddess

Yes they are rare, for pedigrees, but they exist, they don’t for crosses - that was my point.

How can you possible know that?

Sorry I did mean specifically poodle crosses, I did miss a word.

Good breeders are breeding for a purpose, to show, to work, to do a sport and then they sell what’s left over at a much cheaper price than you’d see from breeders who breed just to sell.

Nobody is breeding poodle crosses for any reason other than to sell.

Neongoddess · 02/04/2022 12:04

Good breeders are breeding for a purpose, to show, to work, to do a sport and then they sell what’s left over at a much cheaper price than you’d see from breeders who breed just to sell

Everyone one of those categories eill be making money.

Again you can not say 100% there are no poodle breeders put there who are not breeding to try and develope the breed and selling their dogs at a cheaper rate to the right homes.

That's actully just a guess on your part.

Kaftankween · 02/04/2022 12:14

Our cockapoo is also amazing. Half miniature poodle, half American cocker. Loving, calm and a fantastic family pet. You have to invest in coat care obviously and give the required exercise and stimulation but this is needed for every dog. Each to their own really. Plus did someone say they weren’t really that attractive? Here’s my case for the cockapoo defence.

Cockapoos- from working or show cocker???
tabulahrasa · 02/04/2022 12:24

“Again you can not say 100% there are no poodle breeders put there who are not breeding to try and develope the breed and selling their dogs at a cheaper rate to the right homes”

Develop what breed? Poodle crosses are poodle crosses, not a breed.

Kaftankween · 02/04/2022 12:29

The majority of breeders are breeding to sell, not just the breeders of cross breeds. To suggest the majority of pure breed breeders are selling to show, for work or sport is nonsense. Some, of course but the majority? No

Neongoddess · 02/04/2022 12:31

@tabulahrasa

“Again you can not say 100% there are no poodle breeders put there who are not breeding to try and develope the breed and selling their dogs at a cheaper rate to the right homes”

Develop what breed? Poodle crosses are poodle crosses, not a breed.

Yes cross breedHmm
UsernameFail · 02/04/2022 13:23

Spot on @MrsWinters

Z1nn1a · 02/04/2022 13:28

You also can’t say the majority of cockatoo buyers aren’t experienced dog owners just buying for looks. You just can’t.

Would also like to put it out there that there are boards of unsuitable pure breeds for families and differing lifestyles, circumstances etc.We looked at loads. Like for many cockerpoos came out best for our us.

Neongoddess · 02/04/2022 14:01

One of mine is a poodle Cross. A rescue she cost me the donation fee. I roll her in because I have lots of experience fostering very young puppies and or puppies who are extremely nervous. Because they are the ones I fostered before

Definitely didn't pick her, not even for looks. I like spaniels when it come to looks. I adore them. I fostered her and fell in love with her personality. She's a fab dog and fab addition to our family. Not even 100% sure what she is crossed with. Probably a cav, I would guess.

certainshepherdpups · 02/04/2022 14:43

When I read threads like this one, I sometimes imagine people approximately a century ago turning up their noses at those newfangled golden retrievers: "There's no such breed as a golden retriever. You mean a mongrel, don't you?" Grin

OrlandointheWilderness · 02/04/2022 15:36

@HippeePrincess

I’d always choose working, we have a working Sprocker and she’s an excellent family pet, extremely biddable and we have no issues with her being left alone, I found her extremely easy to train and she only needs an hours off lead walk per day to keep her ticking over and happy. We never have any issues with her staying in with no walks for 2 weeks during her season either. A working gun dog needs to be able to sit by their masters feet all day on a shoot if need be and this is where she sits. Show doesn’t have that in them anymore in my opinion.
Hello! We've just got a sprocker pup - 10 weeks old today. Hopefully he'll turn into a decent beating/picking up dog, it's nice to see someone who works theirs on here!
tabulahrasa · 02/04/2022 16:24

@Kaftankween

The majority of breeders are breeding to sell, not just the breeders of cross breeds. To suggest the majority of pure breed breeders are selling to show, for work or sport is nonsense. Some, of course but the majority? No
Where did I say the majority? I said good.
Kaftankween · 02/04/2022 16:43

@tabulahrasa by your definition most breeders aren’t good then. It’s just not the case.

tabulahrasa · 02/04/2022 16:45

[quote Kaftankween]@tabulahrasa by your definition most breeders aren’t good then. It’s just not the case.[/quote]
Yes, I know most breeders aren’t good breeders.

I said that already too.

Neongoddess · 02/04/2022 17:22

Where did I say the majority? I said good.

You can be a good breeder and still make profit.

I would like to see someone who owns champion show or working dogs who sell their puppies at the same cost, it took to breed them.

HippeePrincess · 02/04/2022 17:36

Oh we don’t actually work her, I just mean she has those traits, though some of her litter mates are in working homes. Her mum and brother work as gun dogs. Ours just sits by us on the beach or in the park Grin

CellophaneFlower · 02/04/2022 19:42

@DoWhatYouLike

Feckaffoutofit On the contrary - I love mongrels. I'd much prefer one to a certain breed, anyway. I just think it rather ridiculous to "invent" a breed. It's not possible to create a completely new "breed" by mixing 2 breeds - Jackapoo, Cockerpoo, Labradoodle, etc.
How do you think pedigree breeds came about? They didn't just randomly pop up... they came about from human intervention. People crossing breeds to get the "perfect" dog.
tabulahrasa · 03/04/2022 05:48

“I would like to see someone who owns champion show or working dogs who sell their puppies at the same cost, it took to breed them.”

Well I’d assume they don’t randomly change the price because a cost went up or down, but the ones I’ve spoken to about puppies charged about half what I’ve seen some puppy farmers advertise at, so it pretty much depends on litter size as to whether they lose money, break even or go into profit. I know a few years ago it took about 4 lab puppies to break even (as long as you don’t count the time off work) and labs do tend to have a few more than that.

“How do you think pedigree breeds came about? They didn't just randomly pop up... they came about from human intervention. People crossing breeds to get the "perfect" dog”

Not two though, you can’t invent a new breed by crossing just two existing breeds.

Neongoddess · 03/04/2022 06:12

Well I’d assume they don’t randomly change the price because a cost went up or down, but the ones I’ve spoken to about puppies charged about half what I’ve seen some puppy farmers advertise at, so it pretty much depends on litter size as to whether they lose money, break even or go into profit. I know a few years ago it took about 4 lab puppies to break even (as long as you don’t count the time off work) and labs do tend to have a few more than that.

So you dont actually know if any breed and break even and dont make any money. You know there's ones that charge less than puppy farms. That's not the same thing. They may only break even if the vet costs are high or a small litter.

Not two though, you can’t invent a new breed by crossing just two existing breeds.

Yes and no. There's hoops to jump through, it's takes years and years of breeding, developing standards etc.

But it has to start with someone creating the crossbreed in the first place.

To be an official breed they need to get the KC (in the uk) to recognise and accept it. Black and tan Coonhounds, recognised be KC in 2018 were a cross breed originally. Casket terriers were crossbreed

However, if someone says 'oh what breed is your dog?' And you have a lurcher uou usually reply "a lurcher" not "Well he is actually a crossbreed of X & Y"

If you say a lurcher, no is going to say 'oh actually they aren't a breed....why did you answer my question incorrectly?'

In normal, every day speech 'breed' isn't always kept for pedigree only. Language evolves its technically use may not always be the exact use its used by larger groups of people.

tabulahrasa · 03/04/2022 06:53

“They may only break even if the vet costs are high or a small litter.”

I have met breeders who have not made what a litter cost them...

“However, if someone says 'oh what breed is your dog?' And you have a lurcher uou usually reply "a lurcher" not "Well he is actually a crossbreed of X & Y"”

Um... people frequently identify lurchers by what they are as well as just lurcher Confused

But it’s besides the point.

I’m not complaining about language being misused, I don’t particularly care about the words!

I was pointing out that nobody is developing a breed with poodle crosses. (the closest anyone has got to even trying is ALDs and most of those breeders are pretty dodgy for other reasons)

It’s not some weird snobbery about purity, it’s literally just about the ethics of breeding.

Neongoddess · 03/04/2022 07:10

Um... people frequently identify lurchers by what they are as well as just lurcher

Yeah of course. They are passing small talk with someone and go into their dogs dna results. I know loads of iurchers owners. They usually say lurcher unless having an indpeth revenant conversation.

The words are really important to you. Specifically the word breed. Your previous comments show that.

I am afraid it absolutely comes across as snobbery. I don't even have a cockapoo and I know there's a cockspur club who are absolutely trying to develop the breed. A 30 second Google can show you.

You keep making claims that are, factually incorrect. Most breeds have at some point not been an official breed, that doesn't mean they are intrinsically bad. It also doesn't mean the breeders are bad.

Breeders should be judged on their individual actions. Not just by what dog they breed and wethwe that breed has KC status or not.

I have met breeders who have not made what a litter cost them...

I am sure you have. And I would bet money that it's because something unexpected happened. Not because they just breed as a charitable act to that breed community. I bet some people who produce cross breeds have also not made money for the same reasons. That alone is not an indicator of a good breeder.