Cockapoos- from working or show cocker???

[missminimum]

I know there have been a lot of cockapoo threads and some people do not approve of the breed. I am not looking for opinions on if you approve of the breed, but advice of the pros and cons between a working cockers or show cocker crosses? We have previously had a show cocker, but many cockerpoos seem to be a cross between a poodle and working cocker, sl would like advice on if this makes much difference in a cockapoo. Thanks

All the cockerpoos I meet seem to be absolutely adorable. Interestingly, I have a working cocker, and I really don't find her to be batshit at all. She's super enthusiastic and needs a couple of off lead walks a day. Apart from that she pootles around the house and watches what's going on.

There is a strange snobbery re cockapoos on here sometimes. We used a reputable breeder from the cockapoo club and pup was health tested.
She is from show cocker, def has the poodle fade as shes going grey at 2. She is immensely chilled out and would laze all day but will happily join in on hikes or longer walks. She can be nervous around other dogs initially but never aggressive and happy to play if the meet is taken slowly.
She is whippet fast and immensely scent driven, nose down a lot. She enjoys agility work. At our dog training class there are three cockapoos and they all have different temperaments. So I'd be wary op of looking for a similar/familiar personality.
For us there were allergies in the family and though we knew it wasnt a guarantee we were keen to avoid shedding if possible as that sets off reactions for family members. The idea that 'pedigree' breeders are intrinsically good and cross breed intrinsically bad is just silly. There are puppy farms breeding pedigrees and awful back garden breeders with cross breeds and all things in between.

To be clear, I do have concerns when I hear breeders selling poodle mixes. They are popular on puppy farms. They are often bred poorly and the breeding is less predictable. Also, many poodle breeders lie.

They make guarantees about shedding and temperament etc.

However, pretending thats exclusive to people who sell cross breeds is ridiculous. I work with the rescue that my poodle Cross comes from. She did need lots of work doing due to fear. Her first owners who coped for only 2 weeks did buy her from a puppy farm.

I also Foster and have and show and working cockers, springers and sprockers. Usually have some sort of behavioural problem and about 99% are based on the fact the breeder lied or misled the owner who was totally unprepared for what they were getting. The owners usually can't cope and are devastated. This goes for the crosses and pure bred. Yes the owner should have done more research. But the breeders are absolutely at fault as well.

When I was looking to buy my first dog when I was 20 and had my own home, I had a breeder try and tell me that Cavs and working spaniels were practically the same dog.

Pure bred breeders very very rarely breed 'for love' of the breed. All this 'they barely make any money' simply isn't true. Often they do breed to keep one. But often to keep that one for breeding. Because they need new dogs to breed from to keep their business going. If a breeder was breeding for love, they would be selling the dogs far cheaper than they do but ensuring the dogs go to the right home.

Its absolutely possible to find a good breeder of crosses. They can be hard to find, but it's possible.

Plenty of pure bred breeders, also pull the trick where they dont register all litters with the KC. They have non KC registered litters in-between the KC registered ones to get round the rules. Most breeders breed more than one or 2 litters in a dogs lifetime.

Plenty of pure bred breeders lie about parentage.

Everyone should absolutely be doing research on their breeder. However, it's incorrect to say pure breed = good and cross breed = bad. It also gives a false sense of security to those buying a pure breed.

Yes, I would have concerns with someone who breeds KC register dogs and breeding a breed that can't be registered. But I don't know the breeder and haven't done my research, so I absolutely would not rule out them being a good breeder based in some posts on MN.

I don't understand why people are opposed to poodle crosses based on assumptions. Sure many of them that people meet are bonkers. That's usually down to owners not meeting their needs. Like working spaniels who are out of control at home are that way because the owners aren't meeting their needs.

“If a breeder was breeding for love, they would be selling the dogs far cheaper than they do but ensuring the dogs go to the right home.”

That is what good breeders do though.

It’s not that pedigree automatically means good breeder, far from it. Most breeders are rubbish, they don’t do what they should and that’s not just crosses or pedigrees it’s just most breeders.

But, with a pedigree there is at least a chance to find a good breeder among the bad ones.

That is what good breeders do though.

A breeder who is breeding purely for poverty of the breed and selling dogs at cost are few and far between. I would say nonexistent.

Yes some breeders are particular about where the dogs go. But they still sell them at a good profit.

We have a Cockerpoo alongside another dog. She is an amazing and loving dog and gives our family so much joy. Ours is very much a Velcro dog, she does get jealous and is thoroughly spoilt by us all with love and attention. She is a lovely pup and she has exceeded our expectations.

Like with any dog, I would suggest the OP does research and find a breeder they like and feel comfortable with. Our girl's parents were health tested although not common and should be across all breeds. Our breeder has been brilliant throughout and we still chat, she constantly offers tips and advice to anyone who asks and even though I know she's in it for the money, I would recommend her and buy another pup from her again.

As for some people saying Cockerpoos are not nice breeds or bite or bark on walks - this can be said about AnY dogs!

You can easily find a good cockapoo breeder. They will be breeding from pedigrees. Ours was. There is the Kennel Club for that and the Cockapoo recommended breeder list. It really didn’t take a lot.

Our show cocker Puppy came from a family home 8 years ago. We met mum and have kept in touch with the family. He is perfect for us - initial puppy training was fine ( you have to put the work in.) He walks off lead with good recall, has a good walk and then likes to doze or have a cuddle. He’s sociable, friendly and just lovely.
My advice would be to keep things simple. Go for a breed that you love and enjoy having a dog in your family. Too much wondering about a mix of breeds and what they will be like makes it complicated when it doesn’t really need to be.
Good luck with your search.

They will be breeding from pedigrees. Ours was. There is the Kennel Club for that and the Cockapoo recommended breeder list
So what if they are breeding from pedigrees?
A ‘pedigree’ is literally just a record of relatives.
That’s it.
And it isn’t always even true as some unscrupulous breeders lie about who the parents, grandparents etc are to cover up inherited problems in the line.
A ‘pedigree’ is not a guarantee of quality, it’s just a written family tree.

If you are breeding cockapoos from pedigrees they also means you are breeding F1s.
While an F1 can sometimes be healthier (if the parent dogs and relatives are free from inherited disease) an F1 is a complete gamble.

It could inherit a silky coat, a thick wavy coat, a curly coat, it could take after either parent in terms of height, it may look indistinguishable from a poodle or indistinguishable from a cocker, it may be all poodle in temperament or all cocker in temperament or a mix of the two.

It’s entirely randomised cross breeding.

KC breeders are usually ridiculously obsessed with ‘purity’ and conforming to a certain look so for a KC breeder to be producing F1s I see that as a red flag tbh.

Why wouldn’t they be breeding cockapoo x cockapoo to produce a dog ‘set’ in looks and temperament?
My suspicion is the reason why not is because producing F1s mean you can use the same KC reg bitch and stud, saving yourself the cost of an additional cockapoo bitch and stud fee and retaining your KC membership and the appearance of being a reputable breeder.

4 Kennel Club registered litters of cockers or poodles and additional litters in between registered with the cockapoo club that the KC has no knowledge of.

As for some people saying Cockerpoos are not nice breeds or bite or bark on walks - this can be said about AnY dogs!

Of course.

But lots of people will say that cockapoos are the ideal family dog etc. but to get them to that stage requires a lot of work and input, plus a dose of good breeding and genetics on top.

I think what people are trying to say is that cockapoos, like any kind of dog, come with their faults, and they being a mixed breed, you have even less idea of what you'll get compared to getting a "pure" breed like a poodle, a working cocker, a show cocker or a Labrador.

So asking what a cockapoo will be like in terms of, well, anything, is a bit pointless as it's such a huge gamble.

@Neongoddess

That is what good breeders do though.

A breeder who is breeding purely for poverty of the breed and selling dogs at cost are few and far between. I would say nonexistent.

Yes some breeders are particular about where the dogs go. But they still sell them at a good profit.

They’re not non existent, they are few and far between but they definitely exist.

HotnSunnyRainbowRoses

You’re being ridiculous and looking for issues.

Anybody knows cost is a gamble with any dog. If coat is your priority really I don’t think a dog is for you.

Yes they are your suspicions. You have no evidence and could lay your suspicions at the door of any breeder of any breed.

At the end of the day alongside KC and CC legislation you go with your own gut instinct. Outstanding facilities and environment, clearly lovely kind breeders, happy, well socialised and healthy dogs, open access and seeing mum nursing alongside masses of paperwork and online information open for all to see was enough for me.

I’m 100% confident my research and what I saw was above and beyond what many pure breed owners do or see when buying a puppy.

They’re not non existent, they are few and far between but they definitely exist.

I will take your word for it. But breeders who dont make any profit, are exceedingly rare. That goes for pure and crossbreed breeders.

Which is what my original point was.

Anybody knows cost is a gamble with any dog. If coat is your priority really I don’t think a dog is for you.

Coats are a huge consideration when you are getting a dog. Coat consideration should definitely be part of the decision.

Which is why F1s should only bought by people who can accommodate either.

Sorry I don’t think a thick or curly coat is important enough to be jumping up and down citing the evils of buying a cockapoo. Both will take care. Anybody buying a cockapoo will set themselves up for the hardest scenario re care.

You’re being ridiculous and looking for issues
No, I’m telling you that poodle mixes are one of the most popular puppy farmed breeds and that the majority are poorly bred.
I’m telling you that F1s are a first generation cross and therefore a complete gamble.
You have no idea what traits you’ll get.
And I’m telling you that F1s out of KC registered parents are usually breeders getting around the rules and breeding more litters than allowed by registering the maximum number of ‘pure’ litters and producing crosses in between.

If you want to believe that that definitely isn’t a possibility then fine, that’s up to you but at the end of the day most puppy buyers are conned to some degree.
Very few breeders turn out to be what we thought they were.

Anybody knows cost is a gamble with any dog. If coat is your priority really I don’t think a dog is for you
Um, coat is a massive consideration.
The poodle coat needs 6 weekly professional grooming else it mats which is extremely painful for the dog and can cause infections.
When you cross a poodle coat to a long coat you can get poodle coated pups, long coated pups and/or pups with a mixed coat that is extremely difficult to maintain.
Retains water, catches every twig, mats incredibly easily.
Lots of groomers dread poodle mixes coming in because they often come in with coats that on the outside look fine but are actually severely matted because the owners can’t maintain it properly.
The poodle and poodle mix coat isn’t a quick pin brush once a week coat.

Yes they are your suspicions. You have no evidence and could lay your suspicions at the door of any breeder of any breed
And I would because most of them are not what they initially appear to be.

At the end of the day alongside KC and CC legislation you go with your own gut instinct. Outstanding facilities and environment, clearly lovely kind breeders, happy, well socialised and healthy dogs, open access and seeing mum nursing alongside masses of paperwork and online information open for all to see was enough for me
Good for you.

I’m 100% confident my research and what I saw was above and beyond what many pure breed owners do or see when buying a puppy
Fine and who knows, maybe it was genuinely all fine.
But you should be at least open to the possibility that most owners are conned to some degree.
An absolutely huge percentage of pups are puppy farmed and/or imported in this country and breeders go to great lengths to appear reputable.
It’s not uncommon at all for breeders to lie about parentage, breed back to back litters etc.

Our cockapoo is amazing. His dad is a miniature poodle, and his mum is a show cocker. His dad has been health tested for genetic conditions. He is such a sweet dog. Would love to be glued to my side all day. I had to build up the time he was left alone to stop him getting anxious. We have spent so much time training him. He gets a good amount of exercise every day. He loves to learn new tricks. I love him so much. I don’t think we will get another dog after him because I doubt another dog could fill the hole he will leave.
Someone said about cocker spaniels being amazing. Our boy was bitten by one recently. It hasn’t put me off cocker spaniels. It has put me off that particular dog’s owner though! I find collies tend to be intense, hyper focused and not terribly friendly. That’s my experience of them. There will be plenty of people say their collie is a total sweetheart. Sweeping generalised statements aren’t really helpful. It is usually the owner’s fault if their dog is badly behaved because they have not met the needs of their dog.
OP, I would choose a show cocker over a working cocker parent.

@Z1nn1a

Sorry I don’t think a thick or curly coat is important enough to be jumping up and down citing the evils of buying a cockapoo. Both will take care. Anybody buying a cockapoo will set themselves up for the hardest scenario re care.

The pp didn't say thick or thin coat.

I said that cost does make a difference when picking any dog. Ita nor just about think or think coat.

And I think the point was that an F1 could have an entirely spaniel coat. Or entirely a poodle or somewhere in the middle. There's absolutely no way to tell.

And yes some people absolutely won't want a spaniel coat that she'd shit loads (I am look at my black cocker) but end up with that.

But yes, most people when looking at any type of animal should consider the coat. It impacts anything from day to day care to finances. Its a big part of picking the breed.

Oh and I do have a poodle mix. I am quite happy to do the hair Care. She was a recuse so I didn't get a choice. But it's alot and expensive. Far more than my spaniel.

Again, I like poodle crosses. I just can't agree anyone considering coat as an important issue, should not have a dog.

I’d always choose working, we have a working Sprocker and she’s an excellent family pet, extremely biddable and we have no issues with her being left alone, I found her extremely easy to train and she only needs an hours off lead walk per day to keep her ticking over and happy. We never have any issues with her staying in with no walks for 2 weeks during her season either.
A working gun dog needs to be able to sit by their masters feet all day on a shoot if need be and this is where she sits. Show doesn’t have that in them anymore in my opinion.

It's interesting @fairylightsandwaxmelts you should mention labradors. That's our other dog, which we got because 'they're good family pets'. Our lab is great, except she jumps 2m high fences and is incredibly high energy - and can go on two hour walks/ runs, come back, rest for a hour and then take herself off for a run again. It's incredibly stressful.

We've seen several trainers and behaviouralists. Pre Cockerpoo I chatted with lab breeder who said she would never believe it had she not had two like this herself.

Well bred labs even have kickback traits

What I don't understand is what the cocker brings to the mix?

Colleague has just got one. Despite advice that if they wanted a low allergenic dog they were better going with a mini poodle they got an F1 cross. They've ended up with a super high energy pup that just looks like a scruffy cocker and not the curly coat they were after and bemoaning that fact. Just no helping some people.

labradors. That's our other dog, which we got because 'they're good family pets'. Our lab is great, except she jumps 2m high fences and is incredibly high energy - and can go on two hour walks/ runs, come back, rest for a hour and then take herself off for a run again. It's incredibly stressful
Labradors are (or are meant to be) working gundogs.
They are supposed to be high energy.
They are supposed to have masses of stamina.
That’s not to say they can’t be great family pets but they are supposed to be high energy dogs.

Feckaffoutofit On the contrary - I love mongrels. I'd much prefer one to a certain breed, anyway. I just think it rather ridiculous to "invent" a breed. It's not possible to create a completely new "breed" by mixing 2 breeds - Jackapoo, Cockerpoo, Labradoodle, etc.

@Neongoddess

They’re not non existent, they are few and far between but they definitely exist.

I will take your word for it. But breeders who dont make any profit, are exceedingly rare. That goes for pure and crossbreed breeders.

Which is what my original point was.

Yes they are rare, for pedigrees, but they exist, they don’t for crosses - that was my point.